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Old 4th June 2014, 08:59   #421
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Rebel Motors in Hyderabad is surely taking some nice steps to popularize Triumph

One such endeavour is an event they are hosting this sunday wherein they have invited all bikers from city irrespective of the brand. N-Asian is an upmarket Asian food joint in Hyderabad

They expect some 300+ bikes to come for this event which will be preceded by a short city ride !!!

Iam not even sure if I can make it yet as I have other invitations.....
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Old 9th June 2014, 10:07   #422
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
He installed the Hi-Flow Silencer. Pipes are just slip on but, requires some ECU tuning. Pipes as you can see is same as stock and also retains the smoothness.
Avi, I wanted to ask you about this. Why was the need to do a ECU tune ? Was he thinking of an after market tune ?

From what I have understood about ECU in stock tune is that there are built in tollerences in it and the tune self sdjusts to the quality of fuel, availability of air and the air/exhaust out flow. May be I am wrong and gurus like Arun can give the correct info.

Best Regards & Thanks

Ram
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:09   #423
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Avi, I wanted to ask you about this. Why was the need to do a ECU tune ? Was he thinking of an after market tune ?

From what I have understood about ECU in stock tune is that there are built in tollerences in it and the tune self sdjusts to the quality of fuel, availability of air and the air/exhaust out flow. May be I am wrong and gurus like Arun can give the correct info.

Best Regards & Thanks

Ram
Ram sir,

Just to confirm, there are built in tolerances in ECU (at least in HD) and slip-on's doesn't need any re-tune. Only when air-intake is altered or when exhaust out is altered (as in a full system) - thats when ECU needs a re-map to adjust to a different tune than factory tune.

Having said that - I'd love to hear from anyone who knows more about Triumph tunes etc
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:31   #424
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Ram sir,

Just to confirm, there are built in tolerances in ECU (at least in HD) and slip-on's doesn't need any re-tune. Only when air-intake is altered or when exhaust out is altered (as in a full system) - thats when ECU needs a re-map to adjust to a different tune than factory tune.

Having said that - I'd love to hear from anyone who knows more about Triumph tunes etc
Hd and triumph fi are very different.
Hd has o2 sensors on both exhaust to closely watch actual combustion, give feedback to ecu - hence the close loop.
Not sure if all triumph have closed loop fi. Rocket3 has it , not sure about others.
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:55   #425
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Ram sir,

Just to confirm, there are built in tolerances in ECU (at least in HD) and slip-on's doesn't need any re-tune. Only when air-intake is altered or when exhaust out is altered (as in a full system) - thats when ECU needs a re-map to adjust to a different tune than factory tune.

Having said that - I'd love to hear from anyone who knows more about Triumph tunes etc
Shubz,

This is what my understanding as well. I think since all the bikes in India (except mine) are under warranty, people have not started playing with tunes. People like Arun (HYD) must be itching to get on with that.

Pleanty of tune options are available as after market, some Trriump approved even. Just have a look at the follwing link - some tunes can be remotely downloaded, even.

http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/bonn...-efi-tunes.php

You know I am a stock person, hence so far has been resisting the temptaion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
Hd and triumph fi are very different.
Hd has o2 sensors on both exhaust to closely watch actual combustion, give feedback to ecu - hence the close loop.
Not sure if all triumph have closed loop fi. Rocket3 has it , not sure about others.
Yes, its a closed loop as well. If I am not mistaken all the classic and cruiser range have closed loop with o2 sensors on all exhausts etc. In that it may not be too different.

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 9th June 2014, 14:07   #426
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post


Yes, its a closed loop as well. If I am not mistaken all the classic and cruiser range have closed loop with o2 sensors on all exhausts etc. In that it may not be too different.

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
If its closed loop (Narrow Band), It can take care of change in Air flow to some Degree . should not warrant a New Tune for minor mods like slip on.
However if both Intake and exhaust are changed , things get out of hand for a Narrow band sensor.
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Old 9th June 2014, 14:17   #427
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Avi, I wanted to ask you about this. Why was the need to do a ECU tune ? Was he thinking of an after market tune ?

From what I have understood about ECU in stock tune is that there are built in tollerences in it and the tune self sdjusts to the quality of fuel, availability of air and the air/exhaust out flow. May be I am wrong and gurus like Arun can give the correct info
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Just to confirm, there are built in tolerances in ECU (at least in HD) and slip-on's doesn't need any re-tune. Only when air-intake is altered or when exhaust out is altered (as in a full system) - thats when ECU needs a re-map to adjust to a different tune than factory tune.
Ram and Shubz, Even iam wondering if there is only change to the tail/end pipes why would the ECU need a tune/adjust to map when nothing is happening at the intake side. I got to know about the tuning through a casual conversation with the owner who didnt seem too tech savvy.

I have not enquired back with dealership with regards to what they have done with ECU while installing a Free Flow Silencer to Bonnie SE

Will enquire and shall post a feedback here

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
This is what my understanding as well. I think since all the bikes in India (except mine) are under warranty, people have not started playing with tunes. People like Arun (HYD) must be itching to get on with that.

Pleanty of tune options are available as after market, some Trriump approved even. Just have a look at the follwing link - some tunes can be remotely downloaded, even.

http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/bonn...-efi-tunes.php

You know I am a stock person, hence so far has been resisting the temptaion
I have come across this website. Interesting to know there are plenty of tune options available that be can remotely downloaded and played around with the Bonnie.

As you rightly said, Arun has already started tinkering with his bike and fitted the bar-end mirrors which costed him a princely sum of Rs.50

He is looking for a donor stock exhaust pipe to play around with it to see if there is a possibility of power and sound gain from them. If he is reading this message, iam sure he will respond soon enough

P.S: Yesterday, I rode the Arrow'ed Bonnie for a fairly long time and reasonable distance (30kms-40kms). A short report of what I feel about it coming up shortly !!!
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Old 9th June 2014, 14:37   #428
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

In general, a slip on will not need a remap. There are many that have done the same with stock maps. BUT!!!!! ....... in Triumph model's post 2009, they introduced an additional Air injection port along with the o2 sensor to cater to stricter emission norms. This wasnt mandatory, but it was still engineered by Triumph, albeit , as a quick fix.

The secondary air injection port takes readings from the O2 sensor and functions as a means to ensure the cat-con operates at its optimal temp. Infact, all after market headers and mufflers donot even have cat-con cause its not mandatory.

The definition of "closed loop" is diluted to an extent in Triumph maps . O2 sensor map readings are utilized only till 6-10% TPS readings( i.e idle and very mild part throttle ). Beyond this, the map is "fixed" and doesnt "adapt" like a normal closed loop.

Hence the remap.

Last edited by absynthguzzler : 9th June 2014 at 14:40.
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Old 9th June 2014, 17:51   #429
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

On Sunday (June 8th, 2014), Rebel Motors conducted their first promotional event where they invited all known city based riders for a short city ride followed by brunch at an upmarket lounge called N-Asian which is owned by Shilpa Reddy and probably the popular telugu film star Nagarjuna also has some stake in it as theme, exteriors, interiors, parking lot and even the entrance is uncannily similar to a restuarant owned by him ( N-Grill- well, the name also rings a bell)

We were requested to assemble at the Rebel Motors Showroom at Banjara Hills at 7:00am and expected to leave the place at 8:00am for a defined route for the city ride and then return back by 11:30am to N-Asian to party

I misjudged the timing a little bit as I received a call at 8am when I was still at home that folks are all set to move out. I hurriedly dressed up and left home at 8:15am and reached the showroom by 8:30am. I was there right on verge of time of flag off.

There was press taking interviews of people and a Chevrolet Tavera from TV9 waiting at the flag off to record the ride which accompanied us through entire ride. It was an overwhelming sight to see so many bikes of all kinds and shapes totalling more than 100. As is normal in such gathering and knowing the male ego, everyone were trying to out-revv each other at stand-still trying to show off their powerful bikes fitted with some fancy aftermarket exhausts

Best part about this promotional ride was that anyone and everyone who rides a bike for liesure was invited. Apart from the regular superbikes, Harleys there were plenty of Bullets, KTM's, Ninjas and a lone MotoGuzzi. Infact, there were a couple of ZMA who requested to join the ride and were allowed to join in including at the brunch. Super Gesture, isnt it?

Everyone was given a free t-shirt of Triumph which everyone hurriedly slipped on ( As is normal, tee didnt fit me so I collected it at end of the ride) we took off from the showroom at around 8:45am and our marshal was a couple of staff from Triumph on Tiger and Bonnie with a Volvo XC90 (They also have this dealership) as the lead car

We rode through the city following the marshals in 2 or 3 formation and dazzled most of the onlookers who were peeping out of autos, buses and other bikers taking videos of the entire bike parade. It was fun and music to ears from so many different style of exhuasts

Highlight ofcourse was the supersport bike (BMW HP4 with an insane sounding exhaust apparently costing 48 lakhs) rode by the sardarji gentleman in yellow tee (in one pic) who also happens to own more than 250 bikes and also bought the lambo from cricketeer Yuvraj Singh.

After a few rounds of the entire KBR park circumference which is a nice twisty road, we stopped at the park bay area around 10:00am for breakfast which was sandwiches and mango/strawberry milkshakes. We started off again at 10:30am and rode all the way until Gachibowli Financial District for some photo opportunities, this stretch I had swapped by Bonnie with the Arrow Bonnie and I will have to tell you this- After the Sardar Gent, I got the second most eyeballs from all onlookers due to the loud, guttural and beautiful note from those exhausts .

This long ride has totally changed my view about the Arrow as compared to my earlier version after a short ride. More on this in a separate post.

Afte the photo-op, all bikers headed back to city towards N-Asian while a few of us decided to take a detour and visit another biker friend/BHPian (Insearch) home which was some 20kms away and ride back together. We enjoyed the beautiful stretch of ICFAI, Ocean Park road to his home and back to be in time for the brunch at 12:30pm and interacted with lot of fellow bikers over mocktails and lovely asian food until 3:30pm

It was a wonderful event hosted by Rebel Motors and they plan to do it every 2 months. Infact, during this promotional event they introduced an offer of exchanging a bullet as downpayment and rest in EMI which means you get to own a Triumph by shelling down "Zero Down Payment". This offer went well with many bulleteers who participated yesterday. Iam sure there would be plenty of conversions.

Overall, it was a great sunday gelling with fellow bikers over a short ride, great food and music !!

Now its time for some pics. As usual, i was in two minds to carry my camera but, being my lazy self, I didnt..LOL. Apologies for quality of these pics from my Blackberry
Attached Thumbnails
My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_095811.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_095843.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_095851.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_095907.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_095943.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_100004.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_121733.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_121750.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_121811.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_121818.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_121834.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_145808.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_145837.jpg  

My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!-img_20140608_145853.jpg  

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Last edited by mobike008 : 10th June 2014 at 11:23.
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Old 9th June 2014, 18:11   #430
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Best part about this promotional ride was that anyone and everyone who rides a bike for liesure was invited. Apart from the regular superbikes, Harleys there were plenty of Bullets, KTM's, Ninjas and a lone MotoGuzzi. Infact, there were a couple of ZMA who requested to join the ride and were allowed to join in including at the brunch. Super Gesture, isnt it?
I think three cheers are in order to Rebel Motors for this gesture, which is in true and free spirit of motorcycling and motocycling faternity.

Seeing some the pictures of this and the rides in Bangalore a biker friend in Dubai (from the western hemisphere) passed this wise crack

"Finally bikes have shifted from necessity to luxury. Good to see India catching up to a change"

Amen to that !!!

Best Regards and Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 10th June 2014, 14:20   #431
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Short Review of Triumph Bonneville SE with Arrow Exhausts

I had rode the Arrowed Bonnie sometime back for a very short ride and as mentioned in that review, I didnt like it due to two primary reasons :-

a) Felt the smoothness of Bonnie's engine was sacrificed
b) Jerky accelaration/decelaration made the ride uncomfortable

I happen to get an opportunity on Sunday during the Rebel Motors promotional event to ride the same Bonnie again. But, this time quite extensively. Here are my renewed observations :-

Sound
  • The bike at idle sounds beautiful. Deep throaty growl
  • When you revv the engine, that growl almost transforms into a gutteral scream and has a deep raspy note to it
  • I was riding along with an Iron 883 which had aftermarket exhausts (Same Iron which I rode earlier) and Arrow'ed Bonnie was easily louder than the Iron 883
  • When you ride the Bonnie at a constant speed, the sound isn't so loud ( this feedback was given by Insearch who rode it for a long time as well)
  • During the ride with 100+ bikes including many superbikes, Arrow Bonnie was sounding the best (perhaps 2nd best after the BMW HP4) and was gathering too much attention from bystanders
Performance

I think in their quest to make it better, they may have played around with the ECU map as I note, that jerkiness which I felt earlier was completely gone. It was revving smoothly from lower RPM's to all the way to redline. Also to my relief, that gruff engine feel wasn't there as well. It was the same smooth buttery engine of the Bonnie. Besides all this, accelation is way faster than the normal Bonnie

Absynthguzzler and few other Bonnie friends were riding next to me and wanted to hear the note while I was riding. I tested it in all gear, slot into 1st and half clutch with some throttle input, it was doing wheelie.

There is a definite and most certain increment to power & torque which is easily felt when compared to the stock exhuast.

Concerns
  • Iam not sure about the overall reliability of these exhausts and their effects on engine in long run but, since they are a well-known Italian firm under contract by Triumph, presume they are very reliable
  • I know for sure there is a huge improvement in initial and in-gear accelaration but, hope they do not restrict the top speed of the bike in any way
  • Not really concerned but, will there be a big drop in FE?. Any inputs from someone here?
  • Finally, I think ear plugs will become a necessity for touring purposes
Cost

Rs.60,000

They have priced it exorbitantly and is the only dampner for me (as of now). Otherwise, Iam almost sold on Arrow Exhausts

While researching for reviews on Bonneville with Arrow Exhausts,

I stumbled upon this lovely review. Quite an interesting and fun read :-

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-talk/174053-bonneville-se-arrow-exhaust-review.html
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:05   #432
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
The definition of "closed loop" is diluted to an extent in Triumph maps . O2 sensor map readings are utilized only till 6-10% TPS readings( i.e idle and very mild part throttle ). Beyond this, the map is "fixed" and doesnt "adapt" like a normal closed loop.

Hence the remap.
This is good information. I am not sure if service folks advise on a remap at all or is it just some (bike)tech savvy folks ask for it and get it.

If the adaptation is not beyond Idle and "mild" part throttle - folks not going for a remap as asking for trouble!

BTW: What is the cost of doing just the remap?

Last edited by Shubz : 10th June 2014 at 16:06.
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:12   #433
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Congratulations! the bike looks great. Thanks for the pictures.

Yes, the ride quality is bit stiff, it looks like the suspensions are tuned as per the origin country. Please also do write about the fuel that need to be used. Did they recommend to use high octane gasolene? Is there a possibility of attaching a leg guard to the bike?
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:21   #434
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
This is good information. I am not sure if service folks advise on a remap at all or is it just some (bike)tech savvy folks ask for it and get it.

If the adaptation is not beyond Idle and "mild" part throttle - folks not going for a remap as asking for trouble!

BTW: What is the cost of doing just the remap?
Triumph provides maps for all options sold by them, including slip-on. As long as the product is bought from them, the remapping is free of cost(logically).

If one installs a non Triumph product , then a remap service can be purchased from Triumph.Your warranty may be void or at best, left to the discretion of the dealer( depending on its severity and your relationship skills) .

Avi, my guess is you'll have a 10% reduction in mileage after installing the Arrows, 50% of which will be because of change in riding style .

Last edited by absynthguzzler : 10th June 2014 at 16:22.
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:26   #435
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
Triumph provides maps for all options sold by them, including slip-on. As long as the product is bought from them, the remapping is free of cost(logically).

If one installs a non Triumph product , then a remap service can be purchased from Triumph.Your warranty may be void or at best, left to the discretion of the dealer( depending on its severity and your relationship skills) .

Avi, my guess is you'll have a 10% reduction in mileage after installing the Arrows, 50% of which will be because of change in riding style .
Thanks sir.

Yes, you are right about the 10% (approx) reduction in FE. And that probably is a standard irrespective of which brand of bike one owns.

My Iron's FE was in 22-26 range and after my stage 1 set up - is now around 20-22 KMPL.

There is a friend of mine, who has gone the extra length of drilling more holes in his Screaming Eagles slip on's -- Guess what, he is getting 7 kmpl -- mainly because of his - what I call - Boom! Boom! riding style!
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