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Old 25th April 2014, 00:47   #61
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Why do I feel that Harley is just a sophisticated/ fancier Bullet? I'll tell you why.

I remember Bullets in the past were used to springing in some minor niggling trouble hear and there and especially at times when they just returned from service.

I was just about getting over the puncture repair but alas, have to take the bike back to the workshop! There seems to be problem with the ABS as the lamp on the dashboard either continuously flashes or stays on for a sometime before starting to flash again. I had noticed this immediately after taking the delivery of the bike yesterday after the repair and went back in 5 minutes. I was assured that this is normal since the rear wheel had been taken out. Riding it for anything between 40kms-50kms would lead to the flashing ABS lamp to stop flashing. It obviously has not happened!

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
Regarding slime - Would this not cause wheel balancing issues (added weight)?

PS - You have a lovely family. My regards at home
Thank Urban_Nomad, not sure about the added weight. Will check it once I go in for the solution.
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Old 25th April 2014, 10:34   #62
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankitwanchoo View Post
Why do I feel that Harley is just a sophisticated/ fancier Bullet? I'll tell you why.

I remember Bullets in the past were used to springing in some minor niggling trouble hear and there and especially at times when they just returned from service.

I was just about getting over the puncture repair but alas, have to take the bike back to the workshop! There seems to be problem with the ABS as the lamp on the dashboard either continuously flashes or stays on for a sometime before starting to flash again. I had noticed this immediately after taking the delivery of the bike yesterday after the repair and went back in 5 minutes. I was assured that this is normal since the rear wheel had been taken out. Riding it for anything between 40kms-50kms would lead to the flashing ABS lamp to stop flashing. It obviously has not happened!



Thank Urban_Nomad, not sure about the added weight. Will check it once I go in for the solution.
I guess this is the problem with Electronics and Developing nations!
Thats the reason there are soo many horror stories about high end cars at dealership.
I work for car/suv manufacturer in Dept related to RWUP Design correction!
I often come in contact with Dealerships and their tech leaders.
They get so confused with Trouble codes / sensors/ rework procedure etc

Trust me , people at dealership know much less than they should ! they are masters at mechanical work , but Electronics make them run in circles.

Its better for you to know how to check trouble codes yourself and reset / invistigate. Unlike 99% of vehicles ,You do not need any external device to see and check / clear trouble codes on a Harley (its not RE anymore).

I believe Removing the wheel while the IGN on condition would have send the signal to ECU that Sensor of ABS is not able to generate any signal for ABS to work.
Sensor reads the Land and pits marked on a rotor of wheel!

Either Removing the wheel while IGN is On or switching IGN on while there is no wheel will generate ABS Fault code.

Once every thing is back in place , you would simply need to reset the code from your speedo meter!
If something is really wrong , the code would come back or will not get cleared atall. That is the time you should Invistigate according to Fault code Manual ( Posted by Dheeraj on His Thread, also available at various other sites online) , Check if relevant sensor is actually hooked up with its coupler / assembled at its intended place etc.

If all this is not helping , thats the time to Call up dealership.

I am not sure whats the case with your bike as you have not posted any Fault code!

Its Your HOG , YOU should know!

Fault code investigation hardly takes 2 mins , Hitting the dealership before your invistigation will lead to frustration and waste of time / money .
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Old 25th April 2014, 11:27   #63
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@dustom_99: I completely agree that I should have know, it's my Harely but the fact still remains that this is a premium product and I do expect them to be better than other run of mill dealerships who do not do a proper road test before handing over the bike.

With my limited knowledge of Harely trouble codes and the fact that I was ranting in the middle of the night just before parking the bike at home and doing a quick check on the codes, the ABS module did not throw up an error code but just displayed 'N'.

Will go through Dheeraj's thread and done a thorough error code check later in the evening and possible reset it to see if it fixes the issue to avoid a trip down to the workshop.

On Bullets, we were accustomed to changing clutch and throttle cables and that was a part of the ownership experience and while I remember cribbing about it as well as cribbing about other niggling issues on Tata cars but still have been a fan of Royal Enfiled and Tata Safaris and probably that's one of its charm.


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Old 25th April 2014, 11:46   #64
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Yes ofcourse , Customer satisfaction is their Job! Next time whenever you visit them do take up the matter with workshop manager , if still not satisfied put in an official complain on Customer service number.
From outside it may look like Dealership guys are the boss, but companies (even indian companies) take official compains very seriously .
These guys get away because customers shout and curse and everything about poor service but do not actually register official complain!

And yes you have paid pretty big amount for 2 wheels and service & support should be of that standard aswell !
I am just saying knowing your bike will save you time and stress , although you are under no obligation to do so!
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Old 25th April 2014, 22:34   #65
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

[quote=dustom_99;3420947]Its Your HOG , YOU should know!QUOTE]

Sure sure! After spending a small fortune to purchase the bike; this is EXACTLY what the owners look forward to. Self diagnostics & maybe even how a V-twin engine must be assembled while they are at it.

How dare they expect the dealership folks to know their stuff? What nerve!!!
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Old 26th April 2014, 11:49   #66
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

If you actually knew how to assemble a V-Twin , you would not be asking ! ( even assembling from spare parts while having a manual, forget making your own engine parts)

If spending 2-3 mins fiddling with your speedo is a big deal , Harley is not for you. in fact no motorcycle is for you , Maintenance free and safer cars are better.
All motorcycles ask for attention and know how! some a little more some a little less just like Kids!

Its like asking your kid what did he learn in school , despite knowing you have paid the fee and afforded the best possible care you can dream of.
People love their kids , and while they send them to school , still try and teach them every time they can.
why? because they care! because they love their kids! every one does.
Do you ever ask your kids " hey kid why are you bothering me with all those nonsense questions when I have just got back from work"? I paid for your Teachers , go ask them!

In Harley world , when you treat them as a Machine they are a Pig , when you treat them as a person or loved one they are The HOG , your Hog!

It pays to know what your loved one desires , But not every one will Understand!
There are different machines available , all have their own aces , If you are not in love , Harley is not for you !
Although today Harley does not ask for much attention (countless HOG rides have been organized , I am yet to hear about IMMOBILIZATION except punchers), I wish It did! so that not every joker could be seen wearing the Patches!
I have Hog Patches from international Membership , from Himalayan Chapter and Mileage badges! I have not put them on even once , Not even once Just to see how they look on me.
I do not think I am worth of them yet! Its religious for me!
For some people Motorcycles are the way of life for others they are objects that can be bought and sold! (Not just Harley)

While I know you would not agree with my views , its not your fault , you are not in love!
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Old 26th April 2014, 12:25   #67
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankitwanchoo View Post
Why do I feel that Harley is just a sophisticated/ fancier Bullet?
And the Harley Club scene is the Bullet club scene with deeper pockets.

Glad you said this.

Because when I've been saying this for months now, I have been accused of Harley bashing.
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Old 26th April 2014, 13:39   #68
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Ok, just back from the workshop and contrary to my belief that they had not fixed the rear wheel properly which led to the ABS malfunctioning, it was actually the RSA's fault as while towing the bike, he hadn't tied the bike properly leading to the ABS sensor on the front brake to break!

It took about an hour to replace and no charge to me and the bike is back to normal. All good.

@dustom_99: While I understand your sentiments towards bike and do actually relate to it to an extent but the analogy with kids might be a bit too much.

You not wearing patches is also your choice, yes there are some who love wearing patches all over their jackets and the only riding they do is weekend breakfast runs but that doesn't mean that other's who ride five times as much as them, should look down upon them. But I guess to each his own.

Biking and riding to me at least is the entire experience of owing the bike and living with all it's troubles. While some may like to get their hands dirtier than others but still those who do not get them as dirty as you or those who expect an absolute trouble free experience, should also enjoy buying bikes and you shouldn't feel that they should buy cars!

It also takes sometime getting used to the bike, and as you rightly said, it is a love affair and there are bound to be tiffs between lovers but then in the end you do kiss and make up. That's what I did today.

Quote:
And the Harley Club scene is the Bullet club scene with deeper pockets.

Glad you said this.

Because when I've been saying this for months now, I have been accused of Harley bashing
You are right and it ain't no bashing. The reason why I presume most love would Harleys would be the same as why we love Bullets. They vibrate all over and give you the feedback from the road as a bike ought to. All it's associated troubles are forgotten as soon as you hit the open road.
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Old 26th April 2014, 13:52   #69
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankitwanchoo View Post
Ok, the bike is back to normal. All good.

The reason why I presume most love would Harleys would be the same as why we love Bullets.
Well said ankit. Glad to know your ABS issue is solved. My friend is facing the same ABS light issue with his Street Bob after changing to a fatter rear tyre. I will ask him to check all his ABS sensors.

Though you needn't be fully hands on to enjoy your machine, some basic know how always helps, especially in emergencies, and especially about small things like a tyre puncture.

Well the biggest difference between the Bullet and a Harley, as I have mentioned before too, is the quality levels. While it is easy to achieve about 60~70% product quality that a Enfield has attained over the years, it is very difficult to go that last mile to the 90%+ quality levels of the Harley. Going those last 30~40% in quality requires the type of precision and attitude that I feel Enfield as a company still lacks. That is why I was disappointed by the Street because Harley had skimped on that last mile quality that they are famous for. Maybe over a year or so they will correct that mistake.
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Old 26th April 2014, 14:42   #70
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Ankit , I am not asking anyone not to wear the patches , nor I am looking down on anyone. I too do not ride much , there are people who would have covered 5 folds more than me in same kind of time, I did not say anything bad even about people flaunting badges bought of ebay without having a bike.
like you rightly said ,Biking means different thing to different people , they should enjoy it the way they want to!
What I feel I put forward on the table.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
And the Harley Club scene is the Bullet club scene with deeper pockets.

Glad you said this.

Because when I've been saying this for months now, I have been accused of Harley bashing.
Yes Harley and bullets have lot in common!
Both work on rubber wheels! both are made of steel , both work on petrol and are air cooled , both vibrate or rather throb .
Harley has lot of things in common with other things as well .



But their are differences as well.

Unlike any other motorcycle Harley have gas tanks without edges.60 years ago all bikes had this type of tanks
- all other bikes now have gas tanks where the top case meets spine tunnel and sheet metal over laps.
these days on other bikes its Resistance welded where in you simply pass these two overlap sheets between the rollers carrying 400 or so amps and edges are welded shut.Easier and cheaper to do.
Harley believes in making them retro as retro should be (made as they have always been made), they do not overlap sheets ( which makes an ugly and sharp edge) , instead they bring in sheet end to sheet end and then TIG weld them. No ugly sharp edge left on which otherwise is a curvy tank.
Of course this process is at least 100 times more difficult to repeat in production and quality control as tig weld often leaves leaks.
Then Master tig welders draw nice salaries and one gas tank costs 60k bucks in india!
Also they machine most of the components out of billet aluminum , instead of Investment cast , thats why even the foot peg mounts or the gear/brake lever have been made in one piece rather than welding few simple bits together as in Bullet or other bikes.

Gas Tank shows off the Center crest running down from gas cap to rear , reminding of custom gas tanks made on English wheel by master craftsmen by joining two sides on top by TIG and then grinding .
OEM seats made of LAMB leather and hand stitched , not modern day fake polymers.
Switch cases/ Indicator housing made of machined aluminum not plastic.

Handle bars bent on constant radius benders not their modern but faster cousin that leave bend start and end area kinked and Identifiable .

All aluminum parts are polished even if they are out of sight!
Side covers / AC cover fenders are all steel.

Paint process is patented 16layer with clear coat in 3 layers , unlike only one clear coat for every other automobile except possibly Ferrari .
even wheel spacers are made of machined aluminum (not even cast aluminum) unlike steel on bullet.
Head light is Hung downwards instead of mounted upwards on Lower triple tree using a bracket! they believe it spoils the One piece look and flowing lines of Triple tree!
and There must be a million things I do not know about.

With all that retro touch , they have brought in modern tech to keep with the Norms and times.

Tappets have been upgraded to Hydraulic activation making them adjustment free forever. These is absolutely nothing to adjust on tappets on a Harley!
Drive train now sports adjustment free Belt , made from Kevlar aramid (Kevlar as in Real bullet jackets not riding gear Kevlar) fiber it is unstretchable and adjustment free for life ,
Gear box has all spur gears sporting zirconium & chromium coat to withstand all that modification to power but still retain classic engagement sound.
ECU and its Strategy for engine management is worlds ahead of what cars are Using ( at least cars in India) .
Switch gear is micro switch type instead of Direct current draw type , where in user button only directs another electronic to switch on / off something without actually passing the whole current through itself. Reducing chances of electrical death in rain or washing due to short circuit.
Engine Internals are so over engineered that people have employed turbochargers with out changing engine internals!
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Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob-img_20140426_122922.jpg  

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Old 26th April 2014, 15:11   #71
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Good info Dustom. Thanks!
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Old 26th April 2014, 20:10   #72
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Oh man that was quite enlightening and and interesting read Dustom, thanks for sharing!


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Old 26th April 2014, 21:40   #73
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

Thanks for a deep insight on how the Harley's are made.
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Old 27th April 2014, 01:00   #74
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Default Re: Bullet? Ninja 650? Finally, Harley Davidson Street Bob

something like this should be useful

http://www.slime.com/shop/tire-top-off-40020/

http://www.amazon.com/Slime-40020-Ti.../dp/B002ZC1EOM
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Old 28th April 2014, 11:15   #75
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Punctures and I have a long standing relationship it seems! Woke up today to find the rear type punctured again.

This time I'll try and take out the wheel at home and get the tyre punctured repaired from a near by shop, don't intend to take the bike to the workshop.


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