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Old 23rd July 2014, 17:00   #226
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Looking forward to the ownership thread, as i have been tussling between the street and the bonnie. The buying experience does sound like a big negative. If it wasn't for the price difference between the two, would have tilted towards the bonnie
What is the price difference between Bonnie and HD 750? 1.5 Lakhs?

But, then you will have to pay the Harley tax to get it on road so wouldn't that be a price closer to Bonnie?

my personal opinion is when someone already has a budget to spend 5 big ones, it shouldn't be too hard to fork out an additional 1.5 lakhs to get what you want rather than compromising your selection when such money spent on a bike is not an insignificant one
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Old 23rd July 2014, 17:54   #227
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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What is the price difference between Bonnie and HD 750? 1.5 Lakhs?

But, then you will have to pay the Harley tax to get it on road so wouldn't that be a price closer to Bonnie?

my personal opinion is when someone already has a budget to spend 5 big ones, it shouldn't be too hard to fork out an additional 1.5 lakhs to get what you want rather than compromising your selection when such money spent on a bike is not an insignificant one
I can completely agree to that statement, something that I have experienced myself, only difference in my case being that I stayed within the HD family and booked a superlow instead. {Heart wants what the heart wants}

So Nasirkaka get what your heart wants rest assured you'll find a way to pay that extra 1.5-2L

Last edited by abhimanyu_singh : 23rd July 2014 at 17:57.
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Old 24th July 2014, 11:38   #228
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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So Nasirkaka get what your heart wants rest assured you'll find a way to pay that extra 1.5-2L
Heart wants a tiger 800 xc and i know i cannot afford it in near future.
so looking at other alternatives.

I am not really bitten by any particular BRAND bug. Even if i get the street 750, i will be mostly riding solo or with a friend, rather than with bigger groups. I have had fair share of group rides with various bullet clubs, but prefer otherwise.
I currently ride a ktm 390 duke and a heavily modded classic 500 with 535 wossner piston, flat slide carb, etc. The bulls performance is much improved, but the handling and braking is a big concern, esp after getting used to 390s metz combined with abs and the stable geometry of trellis. So the Intention is to do away with the bull (which would fetch me about 1.1L), and get a more reliable and stable bike. Ninjas for whatever reason Were never there in my radar. Bonnie is a tried and tested machine and does fairly well on all parameters such as performance, fit n finish, braking, handling, etc. Street 750 is a new platform where the engine still needs to prove itself over time, but the positive feedback on the same is exciting.
My understanding is that there is no great diffidence between the two engines in terms of performance, torque and refinement but bonnie holds an edge when it comes to braking and fit&finish. Tyre is a consumable, and the MRFs on the street can always be replaced with something stickier. Aesthetics is subjective, i like both but bonnie better.(actually prefer the T100 over std). Dont think there will be too much variation between the two when it comes to servicing, accessories, spares, etc.

So for someone like me who enjoys two wheels over four, is not super rich to afford the tiger, likes street 750, likes bonnie a bit more then 750, the price difference of about 20-25% does create confusion.
I am not in great hurry, will wait a while to see how the street does in real life, whether there is any improvement in fit and finish and braking, and take a call.
Sorry for going a bit OT, but i felt it would be better to explain my situation and my dilemma.
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Old 24th July 2014, 15:19   #229
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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My understanding is that there is no great diffidence between the two engines in terms of performance
Huh???????

One does a little over 160 kmph (the same as a 250 cc Ninja).

The other nudges 200 kmph (more than or at least equal to a Duke 690).

You've modded your Bullet. You know how much it takes to get a bump of even 5 leave alone 10 kmph at the top end .......

Last edited by ebonho : 24th July 2014 at 15:22.
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Old 24th July 2014, 20:17   #230
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

Nasirkaka, as Doc mentioned the Bonnie is better in all aspects i.e, performance, handling, ride and finally, fit & finish.

Also its top end is way beyond that of a Street 750 ( PM me if your interested to know till where it can go ) and it can cruise at speeds that are top speed of many bikes out there

Keeping all of above in mind,1.5 lakhs premium is negligible
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Old 24th July 2014, 20:21   #231
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Huh???????

One does a little over 160 kmph (the same as a 250 cc Ninja).

The other nudges 200 kmph (more than or at least equal to a Duke 690).

You've modded your Bullet. You know how much it takes to get a bump of even 5 leave alone 10 kmph at the top end .......
Doc, i did not mean to compare the top-end of two. actually did not mean to compare them in anyway.. What i meant was that both the engines, although very different in construction parameters are somewhat close to each other in the context. For eg, before the street 750, the entry level super low's engine is so drastically different from a bonnie, where just the engine could be a deciding factor to go for one, or the other, depending on persons preference. With the rev X engine, the gap between the two have reduced to an extent that for me, the engine between these two is not a deal breaker. If the Street 750 was not in picture, and if i was to choose between the bonnie and the superlow, then there was no issue at all.

Talking of the top-end, i am yet to touch that on my 390, which is closing onto 9k on the odo. Anything around 150 is good enough for me, provided it does not take ages to reach there. The bull was not even doing the company specified 130, so got drawn into all the modification tamasha.

Quote:
Nasirkaka, as Doc mentioned the Bonnie is better in all aspects i.e, performance, handling, ride and finally, fit & finish.

Also its top end is way beyond that of a Street 750 ( PM me if your interested to know till where it can go ) and it can cruise at speeds that are top speed of many bikes out there

Keeping all of above in mind,1.5 lakhs premium is negligible
yes yes.. been following the ownership thread for a while now. InShaAllah! will soon take the plunge.

Last edited by nasirkaka : 24th July 2014 at 20:25.
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Old 25th July 2014, 13:46   #232
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Doc, i did not mean to compare the top-end of two. actually did not mean to compare them in anyway.. What i meant was that both the engines, although very different in construction parameters are somewhat close to each other in the context. For eg, before the street 750, the entry level super low's engine is so drastically different from a bonnie, where just the engine could be a deciding factor to go for one, or the other, depending on persons preference. With the rev X engine, the gap between the two have reduced to an extent that for me, the engine between these two is not a deal breaker. If the Street 750 was not in picture, and if i was to choose between the bonnie and the superlow, then there was no issue at all.
See here is where I am confused bro. If you say the "character" of the the 2 engines is closer (a highly relative term in the present and any other context) than that of a Bonnie and a "traditional" Harley motor, I would agree.

But there is a planetary gulf in terms of stated performance (don't know much about the on-road performance of the Street yet - except that its "nippy/peppy" - again a highly subjective term depending on the context and the frame of reference).

So when you said both were in the same ballpark, I was a bit (actually, more than a bit .... ) taken aback.

As you go higher in the speed stakes, each incremental advance is that much tougher to achieve. Reliably, and efficiently.

A difference of 10 kmph between 130 kmph to 140 kmph is a LOT easier (exponentially) to achieve than a difference of 10 kmph from say 190 kmph to 200 kmph. A LOT cheaper as welll.

Here we are talking about not 10 but 40 kmph. Another class, another planet, bike-wise.

So I would absolutely agree with Avi's rationale. Seeing how prices jump for 5 to 10 to 20 kmph jumps in the lower cc bikes, in a case like this, a jump of just 1.5 lacs is peanuts.

Peanuts when you JUST compare the top speed in the pure performance straightline stakes.

When you include everything else like tyres and chassis and brakes and suspension and size (the Street is small ..... no two ways about it) and the overall quality of the ride, that equation gets skewed even further.

However, just one question for Avi.

How is the difference just 1,5 lacs? I thought the Street was a 5 lac rupee bike and the Bonnie was a 7.5 to 8 lac ruppe bike right?

Last edited by ebonho : 25th July 2014 at 14:06.
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Old 25th July 2014, 14:02   #233
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
However, just one question for Avi.

How is the difference just 1,5 lacs? I thought the Street was a 5 lac rupee bike and the Bonnie was a 7.5 to 8 lac ruppe bike right?
Doc, when Bonneville SE was launched it was priced at 7.10 Lakhs On-Road but, I have paid only 6.72 Lakhs ( savings of INR 40,000) as I have registered the bike in my wife's name

However, couple of months after launch they have reduced the pricing of Bonnie by almost INR 30,000 and now its in range of 6.75 Lakhs OTR across almost all locations in India

Bonneville T100 is priced 8.20 Lakhs OTR
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Old 26th July 2014, 02:15   #234
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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See here is where I am confused bro

Here we are talking about not 10 but 40 kmph. Another class, another planet, bike-wise.

Peanuts when you JUST compare the top speed in the pure performance straightline stakes.
Going by what you are saying which basically is kmph per rupee spent, anyone buying anything besides a ninja 650 in the 5 to 7 lac category is a daft idiot.

Since when did bikes become all about their top speed, unless the bonneville salts are all u can ever dream of? Whatever happened to dynamics and the likes? Again, not commenting on one bike's superiority over another but just what happened to fit for purpose?

If I read Nasir's posts correctly (replacing his bull, wanting a tiger 800) what he is looking for is a bike to take cross country in relative comfort. Top speed is nowhere in contention IMO. Will be happy to be corrected by him though.

And 1.5 lac is chump change? Not to everyone sir. That duke 200 you had so much fun on costs a little less than that. And I do remember reading something you posted on the baby duke that 2 odd lac is no chump change (referring to ur dilemma around the 200s replacement). What's changed?

If Nasirkaka can find a bike that suits him and he saves some money, nothing wrong with that.

Nasirkaka - you may laugh but today I feel that the best bike (in terms of what I can afford) to ride 2 up cross country is the inazuma. It still needs to be 50k cheaper though (after the price cut)

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 26th July 2014 at 02:18.
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Old 26th July 2014, 11:50   #235
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Going by what you are saying which basically is kmph per rupee spent, anyone buying anything besides a ninja 650 in the 5 to 7 lac category is a daft idiot.
I did not say that. Please re-read the exchange.

It started with my questioning the contention that the Street and Bonnie engines were "similar" performance-wise.

They are obviously not. Not even close.

Quote:
Since when did bikes become all about their top speed, unless the bonneville salts are all u can ever dream of? Whatever happened to dynamics and the likes? Again, not commenting on one bike's superiority over another but just what happened to fit for purpose?
Again, you seem to have missed the part of the exchange where I clearly mentioned that JUST on straight-line performance alone, a premium of 1.5 lacs was peanuts.

When you take into consideration all (and more than) what you have mentioned, the premium looks even smaller in comparison. Because from what we have read (and heard) the Bunnie does move and stop better than the Street, has higher component and fit and finish levels than the Street, and is physically a bigger and more substantial bike than the Street.

Quote:
If I read Nasir's posts correctly (replacing his bull, wanting a tiger 800) what he is looking for is a bike to take cross country in relative comfort. Top speed is nowhere in contention IMO. Will be happy to be corrected by him though.
Nasir likes speed. That much is obvious from his posts. If he was only looking for all of the above, he would not have gone to the lengths he has to modify his Bullet. It would have been perfect for the above needs the way it came to him from the factory. But that was not the case. Why would Nasir not like a faster bike - IF it could do everything at least as well as the slower one, if not better (cros country, comfort, etc.)?

Quote:
And 1.5 lac is chump change? Not to everyone sir. That duke 200 you had so much fun on costs a little less than that. And I do remember reading something you posted on the baby duke that 2 odd lac is no chump change (referring to ur dilemma around the 200s replacement). What's changed?
Nothing has changed except the purchase perspective and hence the context here. I am currently not looking at spending anything more than 1.5 to 2 lacs on a bike. But that's me. I agree with Avi when he says that when someone has a budget level of 5-6 lacs in mind (as for the Street) stretching 1-1.5 lacs more is a different ballgame altogether. Especially if on EMIs with no pre-payment liabilities (as offered by many banks).

Again please re-read the exchange - 1.5 lacs being "chump change" are not my words, they are yours. What I very specifically said was that 1.5 lacs was "peanuts" for what the Bonnie gave you over the Street in straighline performance alone.

Any biker here (especially the old school ones who have grown up with the less fancy machinery that were the only ones available to us in the past here) who has tried his hand at seriously modifying his bike to go faster than stock, and spent time and money and effort getting parts and spending hours at his mechanic or machinist or tuner with many trial and errors heartbreaks and blown engines and failures, would know how difficult and expensive it is.

That is the perspective one necessarily needs to understand what I was trying to convey. Not saying you do not qualify. Just pointing out where I was coming from.

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If Nasirkaka can find a bike that suits him and he saves some money, nothing wrong with that.
No arguments there. Money in the bank is extra gear and fuel and miles and destinations to any biker.
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Old 26th July 2014, 15:53   #236
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

Nasir, I would suggest ( and hope ) that you buy the Street 750. Seeing what efforts you put into your Enfield , I think you will enjoy doing the same to your Street 750. And make it your own unique H-D !! Spend the 1.5 lakhs on making it your own .

I think also that a lot of Street owners will benefit from your ownership experience. So do it for the country!! :-)

Last edited by john doe : 26th July 2014 at 16:02.
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Old 27th July 2014, 01:06   #237
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I did not say that. Please re-read the exchange
No you did not say that, I did. I never said that it was you who said it doc. I merely deduced it from the logic of top speed and how 160 vs 200 kph justifies a 1.5 lac premium. The 650 costs around 6 lac and easily does 200 kph. Why spend more on anything else then?

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
It started with my questioning the contention that the Street and Bonnie engines were "similar" performance-wise.

They are obviously not. Not even close.
Lets spend some time here doc. Are top speed numbers all that separate the 2 engines? I agree with Nasir that on paper, both the engines are quite evenly matched.
  • Both engines have a 8000 ish RPM redline. Neither is what you would call "high revving"
  • Both engines make their torque lower in the rev range. Also, the torque curves also are relatively flat
  • Both mills propel the bikes to 100 kph around the 5 second mark. In fact, IIRC the street is actually quicker by around half a second
In light of the above, not sure why anyone would be more than slightly taken aback. As a layman and a novice, I am not.

What am I missing doc? Care to elaborate on the differences between the 2 engines? I ll list what I can to get you warmed up:
  • Parallel vs V twin
  • CC is different
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Again, you seem to have missed the part of the exchange where I clearly mentioned that JUST on straight-line performance alone, a premium of 1.5 lacs was peanuts.
Where in this beautiful country doc do I find that gorgeous straight where I can realize that 1.5 lac premium? Forget the bunny's hop to the double ton (Does she really do a double ton though? Doubt it), where do I ride the street to its very screaming limit?

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
When you take into consideration all (and more than) what you have mentioned, the premium looks even smaller in comparison. Because from what we have read (and heard) the Bunnie does move and stop better than the Street, has higher component and fit and finish levels than the Street, and is physically a bigger and more substantial bike than the Street.
Totally agreed. Fit / finish and especially braking is supposed to be 100 times better on the Bonnie. Harley should be smacked on its fat bottom for this; and replacing Michelins with those MRFs

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Nasir likes speed. That much is obvious from his posts. If he was only looking for all of the above, he would not have gone to the lengths he has to modify his Bullet. It would have been perfect for the above needs the way it came to him from the factory. But that was not the case. Why would Nasir not like a faster bike - IF it could do everything at least as well as the slower one, if not better (cros country, comfort, etc.)?
Sure he likes speed. Why else would he buy the 390?

Bullet modification I actually understand. As an owner of a 350, I can vouch for how friggin sluggish the bull is. I want some more juice out of it. It does not do everything as it is supposed to. Such as : do a 90 - 100 kph on the highway without feeling like its about to implode. Not sure if it does this from the factory. At least mine doesnt. And while we are on the topic of making the bull better, better stopping power please

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I agree with Avi when he says that when someone has a budget level of 5-6 lacs in mind (as for the Street) stretching 1-1.5 lacs more is a different ballgame altogether. Especially if on EMIs with no pre-payment liabilities (as offered by many banks).
Makes sense, unless you are already stretched to the max for the 5 odd lacs for the street. Cheapest Harley, but not exactly "cheap". And the interest rate on those EMIs for a 2 wheeler loan will make your eyes water

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Again please re-read the exchange - 1.5 lacs being "chump change" are not my words, they are yours. What I very specifically said was that 1.5 lacs was "peanuts"
You say peanuts, I say chump change. Whats the expression ...... Potato Pot-aato?

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Any biker here (especially the old school ones who have grown up with the less fancy machinery that were the only ones available to us in the past here) who has tried his hand at seriously modifying his bike to go faster than stock would know how difficult and expensive it is.
I am definitely not an old school biker. I like my vehicles stock (Yawnnnn.... I know). You are a senior member here and a much much seasoned rider than I am. And I am not much of a tinkerer / handy man either. Not one bit. I am actually a bit of a tart when it comes to getting my hands dirty. Blame it on my laziness or the fact that manual labor is rather cheap in this great nation of ours. I would have someone else do my dirty work

And the bikes of yesteryear needed all the help they could get (save for the widow maker aka Belagaam Ghoda aka RD 350) to go faster.

With today's bikes capable of 150+ kmph from the factory with warranty and service support, aren't those days behind us? Where does this stop? 160 kph is not enough for a touring bike? You can modify the ZX14 R too if you wanted. But again, is it really necessary?

Whether or not Nasir likes speed, he is not taking this bike to the track or the drag strip any time soon. I am 100% sure. The street is not a bad option for him if I have understood his intended usage correctly

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
That is the perspective one necessarily needs to understand what I was trying to convey. Not saying you do not qualify. Just pointing out where I was coming from.
Thanks doc. I have a lot of respect for you and you have helped me out on more than one occasion. I look forward to riding with you some day on either the beautiful ghats your side of town or take on the twisties up north in the Himalayas. I just do not agree with what you have penned down here. Top speed does not automatically make a bike better or "worth a little extra". I lay a lot more emphasis on intended usage.

Not that it would interest you but I have pretty much decided on my next bike and the one with which I probably will be continuing the remainder of my sport riding days (unless Honda decides to bring in the CBR 600 F at an irresistible sticker price) .

Its the Street Triple. So naked, so wonderful and more than enough performance to keep the blood pumping in my veins. At the same time, I will be able to ride it to the office, take my wife on the occasional tour or just a short weekend ride in relative comfort and still take on the twisty bits with utmost confidence. I think its priced quite sensibly too. To me, if there ever was a "do it all" bike - this is it.

And here's the kicker. Am I silly for considering this bug eyed brute? Why not spend just 25,000 more and get a whole extra cylinder, more top speed et al with the Kwacker Z 800? Or lets take a step back and understand why anyone would buy a Bonnie and not spend extra 1.5 ish lac and go for the triple? It easily breaches the 225 kmph barrier and therefore totally worth the money, no?

I think with these extrapolations, something like a BMW S 1000 or the GS 1200 would not be too far away and very affordable

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Originally Posted by john doe View Post
So do it for the country!! :-)
LMAO! Do it Nasir. Bharat mata ki JAI!!!!!

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 27th July 2014 at 01:14.
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Old 27th July 2014, 13:00   #238
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

Guys,

I have noticed umpteen number of times mentioned on the forum that the Street tips at ariund 160 kays. Can I ask what is the source of that info?

Most journos, who've done the test rides seem to sugges
t close to 180. That is quite a bit higher than the 160 repeatedly suggested here.I think the bonnie does something like 190-195 tops. Also, from what I've read, the 0-100 timings for eithe bike is in5.5-6 sec territory. Again very close.
than
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Old 27th July 2014, 13:06   #239
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
Guys,

I have noticed umpteen number of times mentioned on the forum that the Street tips at ariund 160 kays. Can I ask what is the source of that info?

Most journos, who've done the test rides seem to sugges
t close to 180. That is quite a bit higher than the 160 repeatedly suggested here.I think the bonnie does something like 190-195 tops. Also, from what I've read, the 0-100 timings for eithe bike is in5.5-6 sec territory. Again very close.
than
In top speed There is always a factor of +- 10kmph when reviewed by different people at different times in all bikes.
When you want to show something in Lowlight - Quote the Tolerance on negative side , and quote the same tolerance on positive side for the vehicle you want to highlight. Hence these days Bonnie does 200 and everything else is slow!

People quoting these speeds never going to be seen north of 100 , not while riding anyway!
Why is Top speed even a debate on these street machines , anything doing 100mph is a serious bike and will land you in jail or Hospital if one wants to find out its topspeed!

When people talked about Aircooled engines on Harley , everyone wanted to prove How Outdated and poor design it was , now a Liquid cooled one V/S a Aircooled does not gain any points?
Harley has been floating around for a 100yrs because more people hate it , the more it gets Talked about.

Last edited by dustom_99 : 27th July 2014 at 13:21.
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Old 28th July 2014, 00:05   #240
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Actually I have personally ridden both the bikes and did not find the performance difference earth shattering in any way.

Moreover, when you buy Bonnie and Street type of bikes, chances are, one is after more than performance. If one wanted just performance, there are cheaper and better alternatives.

Anyway, my whole intention is to point out that according to me, we tend to have lopsided conversations against HD bikes in general on this forum. While Bonnie is a great bike, at the end of the day it is also an old fashioned bike and is not as great as it is made out to be by some on this forum.

Regards,
Abhi
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