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Old 24th November 2014, 15:14   #166
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
i did check with the dealer and he confirmed that it is the 105BHP version
If the state of tune doesn't match ARAI specs, is insurance valid ?
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Old 24th November 2014, 17:15   #167
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Excellent investigative skills, Pramods. Absolute newbie question, but this being India, any chance Triumph initially brought full spec bikes but had lower specification on the ARAI registration just to gain clearance, but now for some reason have to actually detune the bikes? With the total silence from the Triumph camp, seems like something fishy is happening.
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Old 24th November 2014, 17:45   #168
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by KhalDrogo View Post
Excellent investigative skills, Pramods. Absolute newbie question, but this being India, any chance Triumph initially brought full spec bikes but had lower specification on the ARAI registration just to gain clearance, but now for some reason have to actually detune the bikes? With the total silence from the Triumph camp, seems like something fishy is happening.
I doubt this, as ARAI certification and done before they are launched, any assembled product within India has to provide Form 22, and this were ARAI certificate is must, import are sometime exempted ( motorcycle over 800cc there is a requirement for Directive 2002/24/EC ). All the imported model from Triumph and others need to have this certification. You can look for a brief detail about this at http://164.100.9.245/exim/2000/not/not07/not6207.htm

There seems to be some goof up in Triumph marketing, as these vehicle were supposed to have the ARAI mentioned information rather than the EU/ROW information

-Pramod

PS: Have already added details about ARAI and Import on this post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...ml#post3498364 (Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48)

Last edited by pramods : 24th November 2014 at 17:56. Reason: Added import, RTO and ARAI details
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Old 24th November 2014, 17:51   #169
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by pramods View Post
There seems to be some goof up in Triumph marketing, as these vehicle were supposed to have the ARAI mentioned information rather than the EU/ROW information

-Pramod
Definitely looks like something.

The blowback will be easier (comparatively) to handle if ALL customers to date have gotten the same bike with the same specs and at the same price.

Of course that still means all (around 1000 at last count) might gang up and take on Triumph together.

But at least then without preferential treatment, Triumph COULD make a case for unknowing faux pas, and not wilful misrepresentation.
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Old 24th November 2014, 18:44   #170
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

A specification comparison between the Triumph India and Triumph UK websites has revealed some rather disappointing facts.

Link to Team-BHP news article


Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-bonnie-india.png

Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-bonnie-uk.png

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Old 24th November 2014, 18:47   #171
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Let me be the first one to call a spade a spade and appreciate Harley Davidson where its due.

Hope my friends Shubz and Dheeraj are listening.

P.S. But where are the bhp figures .....

Last edited by ebonho : 24th November 2014 at 18:52.
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Old 24th November 2014, 19:11   #172
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Only the bonneville has been nerfed(as per website ) and not the t-100 or the thruxton ? All 3 have basically same engine right .Someone please check the ARAI certificate of the other two , if those two have a higher power figure than the one for the standard boneville , then yes I think there is something seriously wrong behind the scenes .

Daytona and street triple again same engine right but only triple nerfed more than daytona ?
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Old 24th November 2014, 19:22   #173
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Let me be the first one to call a spade a spade and appreciate Harley Davidson where its due.

Hope my friends Shubz and Dheeraj are listening.

P.S. But where are the bhp figures .....
Harley doesnt disclose bhp figures for some reason. Searched a lot on youtube for videos of the Iron on a dyno but all of them have various performance modifications. Yet to find a video with stock vehicle on a dyno.
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Old 24th November 2014, 19:31   #174
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
Daytona and street triple again same engine right but only triple nerfed more than daytona ?
Not to nitpick or anything, but the Street uses previous gen Daytona's engine (74 mm x 52.3 mm, Bore x Stroke). The current gen Daytona's engine is 76 mm x 49.58 mm
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Old 24th November 2014, 19:37   #175
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

My opinion the minor fall in power/torque could be the result or tuning specific to Indian conditions. The fuel mixture and road conditions so as to give trouble free service.

But Street Triple seem to have a huge difference. Thats worthy a note. Hope that's not because of cheaper parts to cut cost, hence the lower torque setup to go with it.
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Old 24th November 2014, 20:18   #176
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Yes, A2 is 47bhp I think but the rules seem a bit funny. I read a review sometime back pitting cbr500 vs a restricted GSXR600 for A2 category! I think the general rule for this is that a bike can not be restricted to less than 50% of it's full power to be allowed. That means there exist enough restrictors out there that can significantly pull the bhp/torque down. So it wouldn't be hard for Triumph to do that here if they wanted to..
Normally the same bike straddling two license groups means the manufacturer sees a market for selling the bike as a learner bike, which the owner will keep and upgrade, rather than trade in, as he gets his next license. I can see the Bonnie fulfilling that need, but not the Striple. (Also the Striple fails on the 50% rule for the A2 license.) Still reducing power is not a problem. Drivability might be, esp wrt gear ratios and weight.


Can a rider used to 100 bhp bikes take the Striple and the Daytona on back to back test rides, and give his opinion?

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 24th November 2014 at 20:21.
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Old 24th November 2014, 22:38   #177
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
Doc, I meant wish for sensibly priced 600+cc bikes. Which we all have done for years now with no real solution in sight. The Duke 390 was a path breaker but if KTM doesn't carry on that business model to 690 and above then the hope of someone else doing it sometime soon seems remote. The Honda press statement said less than 10L for the 650F - not sure if that means 6L or 9.9L!
Even the Ninja650 isn't so vfm when you consider you are paying 10K+ dollar equivalent for it.
Let them put a price they like but they should not lie to their buyers. Is Harley cheap? Are they not selling any?

Every avid bikers buys a bike to make his heart happy ( brain fails here). You shouldnt play with heart .

IF they lied, they lose respect. Period.

Last edited by jkdas : 24th November 2014 at 22:39.
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Old 25th November 2014, 09:48   #178
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

It looks like just the Street Triple that take's the biggest hit. The rest are in the vicinity of 10 bhp difference. Fuel quality is supposed to be one of the reasons for reduced power delivery. Does the Ecu decide the power output or is this something done during dispatch from the factory? Have Triumph done dyno runs with our fuel to arrive at these numbers or is this more a blind guess on the numbers to play it safe on their engine's?
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Old 25th November 2014, 10:24   #179
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Does the Ecu decide the power output or is this something done during dispatch from the factory? Have Triumph done dyno runs with our fuel to arrive at these numbers or is this more a blind guess on the numbers to play it safe on their engine's?
One can control the engine output using ECU map's and different maps will give different outputs. After market remaps work on the same principle. OE maps are developed and dyno outputs taken and that is how a particular map vs power output is published.
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Old 25th November 2014, 10:25   #180
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Let them put a price they like but they should not lie to their buyers. Is Harley cheap? Are they not selling any?

Every avid bikers buys a bike to make his heart happy ( brain fails here). You shouldnt play with heart .

IF they lied, they lose respect. Period.
Agreed. I am not that worried about my Striple being 30BHP less, it is still a hoot to drive, but i can't digest the lie/fudging.

Still chasing dealer down for details, no updates yet from Triumph management.
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