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Old 25th November 2014, 11:11   #181
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
Harley doesnt disclose bhp figures for some reason. Searched a lot on youtube for videos of the Iron on a dyno but all of them have various performance modifications. Yet to find a video with stock vehicle on a dyno.
Yeah I know buddy. It was a tongue in cheek comment.

Reference the intense discussions we have had on the same in the earlier days on some of the Harley threads .....
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Old 25th November 2014, 14:44   #182
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
P.S. But where are the bhp figures .....
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Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
Harley doesnt disclose bhp figures for some reason. Searched a lot on youtube for videos of the Iron on a dyno but all of them have various performance modifications. Yet to find a video with stock vehicle on a dyno.
Hope this helps. (Source: http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/08/26...mparison-test/)

Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-hd-power.jpg

Another one - http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bi...-93---current/

The figures are varying though


Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram

Last edited by r_nairtvm : 25th November 2014 at 14:57.
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Old 25th November 2014, 14:49   #183
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Hope this helps. (Source is there in the photo itself)

Attachment 1312085

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
Hmmmm .... this is honestly the first time I am seeing bhp figures.

Power to cc-wise, those are in Royal Enfield territory.

So in that case, kudos to Royal Enfield!

Last edited by GTO : 27th November 2014 at 10:36. Reason: Removing unnecessary comments
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:14   #184
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Tushar View Post
A specification comparison between the Triumph India and Triumph UK websites has revealed some rather disappointing facts.

Link to Team-BHP news article
One Q and I'm not an expert on this. India quotes the power in PS while UK quotes the price in BHP. Could that also account for the different nos? Just asking.
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:17   #185
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Hmmmm .... this is honestly the first time I am seeing bhp figures.

Power to cc-wise, those are in Royal Enfield territory.
But Doc, the difference is and to give credit where its due, I have to say that an Iorn can get to Century mark in miles and stay there for a sustained period of time unlike the RE (including the handling at those speeds) and keeps up reasonably with the bigger stable mates and even competetion (of course on fair gently winding roads).

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:20   #186
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
One Q and I'm not an expert on this. India quotes the power in PS while UK quotes the price in BHP. Could that also account for the different nos? Just asking.
PS figure should be higher than BHP figures. Theoretically, 1PS = 0.98 BHP. So 61PS in Indian version should be around 60BHP or so.
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:20   #187
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
But Doc, the difference is and to give credit where its due, I have to say that an Iorn can get to Century mark in miles and stay there for a sustained period of time unlike the RE (including the handling at those speeds) and keeps up reasonably with the bigger stable mates and even competetion (of course on fair gently winding roads).

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
But sirji, Royal Enfield is a 500 cc single. While the Iron is a 883 cc V twin.

I am feeling fairly strongly Indian (as always) and will still like to give our bike the credit first!

P.S. Also, Cycle World (and other sources, including some here) claim the top end to be a bit over the mph ton. It would be a very rare bike that can sustain running at its top end for any length of time, sustained or even short. Before the piston comes out through the tank (old Bulleteer analogy - shudder to think where a V twin's would come out from ......)

Last edited by ebonho : 25th November 2014 at 15:26.
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:48   #188
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
One Q and I'm not an expert on this. India quotes the power in PS while UK quotes the price in BHP. Could that also account for the different nos? Just asking.
Yes that is what accounts for the drop in some cases. The Thruxton along with models from the Adventure and Cruiser families see the power drop on paper because of the unit difference which is why the difference is minor in their case. The rest of the range shows a more severe picture though.

Last edited by Tushar : 25th November 2014 at 15:49.
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:54   #189
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Here is a price list that I had uploaded earlier on a different thread. This was given by the Hyderabad dealership. Look at the power and Torque numbers:

Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-price.jpg

Original post: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...ml#post3354474 (Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48)

This post is from January 2014.

If there is any discrepency from these numbers, then the dealership and the company can be correctly sued by an irate owner.

Last edited by Insearch : 25th November 2014 at 15:58. Reason: Spelling
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:58   #190
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Every avid bikers buys a bike to make his heart happy ( brain fails here). You shouldnt play with heart .

IF they lied, they lose respect. Period.
jkdas mate you said my words. I am one of those buyers who buys motorcycles from my heart. Period.

I dread had I been a Triumph Bonneville owner, I would have been doing this . It is not about PS or BHP figures it is about ethics and transparency that we as customers expect when we buy motorcycles costing 7 big ones and upwards. Triumph has some explanation to do here. I as a customer would be happy to buy a detuned motorcycle from the factory than to buy a detuned motorcycle advertised as powerful motorcycle. It is simple I will feel cheated and as you said one should not play with the heart as in that case it is Game Over. Very disappointed with you Triumph India.

I have nothing "positive" or "negative" to say about Triumph India. It is just that I have lost my respect for them.
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Old 25th November 2014, 15:58   #191
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
P.S. Also, Cycle World (and other sources, including some here) claim the top end to be a bit over the mph ton. It would be a very rare bike that can sustain running at its top end for any length of time, sustained or even short. Before the piston comes out through the tank (old Bulleteer analogy - shudder to think where a V twin's would come out from ......)
I think you might have inadvertently let out one of the differences between the Bullet and an HD.

Any HD can and will run at top whack for as long as you can hold it. Unlike a Bullet, you don't have to worry about pistons flying out.

You can compare numbers all you want, but how long and how it delivers it what separates the toys for boys.


So as to not be completely OT, here's my guess on this revised ratings fiasco for Triumphs.

Could it be, that Triumph with their infamous management, filed the wrong figures to ARAI during homologation? Somebody made some calculation/typo error, etc.? And now they might be stuck with it. An official retraction might involve renewing their ARAI certification.

From the look of the bikes, the airbox does not look restricted, and seat of the pants feel say that bikes puts out as much as it says.

Cheers

Ride Safe.

Last edited by gthang : 25th November 2014 at 16:03. Reason: To Edit
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Old 25th November 2014, 16:05   #192
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Any HD can and will run at top whack for as long as you can hold it. Unlike a Bullet, you don't have to worry about pistons flying out.
Ok

Quote:
You can compare numbers all you want
No one had the numbers up until now. All we had was what we saw on the road.

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but how long and how it delivers it what separates the toys for boys.
Far be it from me to separate the boys from their toys.
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Old 25th November 2014, 17:24   #193
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

If this is true, it is as good as paying more for a product that is actually not worth that price.
Basically amounts to cheating the customers.

At first I thought that Triumph may have provided the bhp figures at the crank when they launched their bikes first and now providing the bhp at the wheel which caused the confusion.
But looking at the table few posts back, that does not seem to be the case either.

If I remember right, Triumph had some issues during the process of entering India which delayed their launches. Wonder if there is a connection some where.
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Old 25th November 2014, 17:30   #194
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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If I remember right, Triumph had some issues during the process of entering India which delayed their launches. Wonder if there is a connection some where.
gthang also alluded to the same. Isnt beyond the realm of possibilities.

I sincerly hope it does not reflect a wider and more deep rooted though unspoken English attitude towards Indians and the Indian market.

Bottom line is that Harley charged, but gave Indians what they claimed.

Triumph on the other hand by the look of things did not.

Unless they come clean and give us a proper explanation, this is what's going to stick. Which is unfortunate when you look back here itself and see how many of us had put so much stock into this marque coming to India. Waited so long. And many who put their money where it mattered.

I have a fair idea how corporates work, the feverish wheels within wheels which would be turning at HQ right now. They more than any of us know what a short timespan they have remaining before a public statement has got to be made.

If they really have misrepresented the tech specs to the public, and especially to the paying customers, the ramifications of that go way beyond Triumph alone. They effect the whole industry, and the entire community. Our community of motorheads.

Because it destroys forever the credibility and sanctity of what you see in your Owner's Manual. Because the Owner's Manual is effectively the ONLY legal binding document the customers have with the company in this case.

Remember, there is always small print that says that specifications are liable to be changed by manufacturer without customer notice. But the way I see it, that cannot hold good for the Owner's Manual which has the dealer stamp and the customer name and details on it. Linked to the original Invoice with date and stamp and engine/chassis details.

If a drug manufacturer sels a drug, he is liable by law to have the exact composition on the label. And the most upto date information on the literature inside. He cannot say that specs are liable to change without prior notice.

Sure they can change!

But the change must reflect in the packaging at the time of sale.

That is the critical issue here.

Last edited by ebonho : 25th November 2014 at 17:46.
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Old 25th November 2014, 19:44   #195
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Limited to CKD Bikes

Looks these detuned bikes are limited to CKD one's only and CBU are same as per International Specifications

Form 21 of my Storm
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1.pdf (117.2 KB, 181 views)

Last edited by Turbanator : 25th November 2014 at 19:46.
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