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Old 27th November 2014, 10:38   #226
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
.....Obviously someone from Indian auto industry is now in Triumph management, so the shoving of the blame, aka, Blame Game, has begun with the dealers as the first soft target..
Vimal Sumbly, Ex National Sales Manager, Bajaj Probiking (
now CEO/MD Triumph Motorcycles India)

Shoeb Farooq, ex Regional Manager Sales, Bajaj
(now Head of Sales and Dealer Development, Triumph Motorcycles india)
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Old 27th November 2014, 10:56   #227
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quoting my friend, also a fellow Triumph owner from Facebook Triumph India Owners Group ( Since he's not on t-bhp ), to make others out there aware of the situation

Quote:
Triumph delivers Lemons showing pictures of Oranges - Every Triumph Motorcycle owner today will be wondering why they were shortchanged by Triumph. While there was lot of not so quiet discussions in rumor-land about de-tuned bikes sold in India, point in focus is the recent article in Overdrive which confirms that Triumph has been selling lower spec bikes while claims at the point of sale, website, marketing handouts are way higher specs. With the recent corrections to website, Triumph cannot take cover under the heard too many times - typo error / oversight route. Since 25th Jan 2014 when the first bike was delivered to a customer in Bangalore Triumph has sold more then 1000 bikes if their claims are to be believed. Now that is 11 full months give or take a few days - does it take so many days to correct a typo error? Triumph cannot claim ARAI methods of testing and certification are dubious or non-global-standard testing. Why didn't Triumph disclose ARAI figures in their brochures, website etc. instead resorted to guerrilla marketing tactics keeping customers in the dark. While the lower spec issue is very high for Street Triple, I am wondering if Triumph has done the same with all other bikes too? I am very keen to see what are the claimed / delivered specs for all other bikes.

I have never seen or heard of any owner after taking deliver of his bike or car running to the nearest Dyno testing facility or a wind tunnel to verify manufacturer's claim on power / performance / co-ef drag or what so ever. Customers buy a product based on TRUST that the manufacturer is delivering what they claim is the right product for the hard earned money shelled out. Triumph has broken this very trust and will pay a very heavy price for this misadventure. Ever since this news broke out, I have already seen quite a few drop idea of picking up a Triumph and head towards other brands.
While Triumph is happily gloating about the success of their brand in India, under spec lemons is is not the only problem to plague owners and for the past few months I have seen numerous customers waiting months at end for spares and repairs. Why would anyone spend 7+ lakh on a bike and leave it at Triumph showroom / service center for spares or repair? I personally have raised an issue with quality two months ago and I am yet to hear even an acknowledgment or first response to it.

Bottom line, Triumph fails to understand the basic fact that all of us are bikers at heart first and then comes some form of brand loyalty in the head. We all know what rules the head.
And now is just the right time for Triumph to change the tag line ‪#‎fortheride‬ to ‪#‎takenfortheride‬

Over to you Triumph .....you are on a long haul this time

Last edited by .anshuman : 27th November 2014 at 11:02. Reason: Quotation put in quotes. Thanks
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Old 27th November 2014, 11:43   #228
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Oh God, this is plain madness. My first thought was, what would be the existing owners going through after reading all this. After paying out almost 9 lacs for a Street Triple, you come to know that you have been offered a lemon, when you compare it to a Ninja 650 on the pricing front.

Understand the Triumph's are faster and a whole lot better, but at the end of the day you don't have your engine producing the horses you were told that it does at the time of the sale.

I think Triumph is all set to become the Skoda of the motorcycle industry in India as far as their reputation is concerned.

So now, suddenly the Ninja 650 looks a lot better buy in terms of pricing and the Z800, when it come to power figures.
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Old 27th November 2014, 12:03   #229
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

I had serious plans of upgrading to the Street Triple sometime down the line.

I also took a spin on the bike and loved every bit of it.

But with all this hoopla about detuning, I'm dropping any plans of buying this bike for now.

It's not the bike or the performance or the specs I'm talking about but the trust and integrity of the brand itself.

Why cannot these companies be honest and upfront right at the start.

We've seen how Ducati has treated its customers (stories right on this forum) and they took no responsibility of dealer practices (or malpractices) seriously.

Customers approached Ducati Italy and were given the cold shoulder.

My approach of wait and watch definitely has paid off. I did this when Kawasaki launched the 250R and put my money down only after a few months judging their seriousness and customer centric approach.

Now with Triumph, what stops them from making an official statement, apologizing and making things right? Restore confidence and trust in the customer.

Looks like all they wanted to do was to sell bikes and then forget the customer.

Even their service center in Blore has only 2 or 3 bays to service bikes. And I know for a fact that given the no. of bikes sold, they are grossly under-prepared to schedule servicing for the large no of bikes they have sold till date.

Also, point to note that all test bikes were running the Arrow exhaust systems right from the day test rides were handed out. Fool the customer hoping they wouldn't notice the "lower powered engines" maybe?

Disgusting attitude that you can treat a customer in this country any way you like.
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Old 27th November 2014, 12:55   #230
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

I personally have never ridden the Street Triple or the Z800 till date. But, how is it that guys at Overdrive did not notice the lower power output of the Street Triple when they were doing the comparison review on these two bikes??
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Old 27th November 2014, 13:04   #231
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

SnS_12, if I may reply to that. The stock Striple has a power to weight ratio of 431.7PS/tonne. The stock Z800 is 493.4PS/tonne. Now, all the press bikes, and most of the test ride bikes have the Arrow exhaust on them. Assuming this bumps up the engine horse power from 85 to 90 bhp, then the power to weight ratio for the Street becomes 491.8 PS/tonne. So, it's very close to the Z800 figure. Add into the equation a different map, which makes the engine respond differently, and even the most experienced of riders won't be able to tell the difference

Link to the article http://overdrive.in/reviews/2014-tri...z800-in-india/

Adding to the above, I myself have a stock Street, and have ridden a stock Z800 and I couldn't tell there was a difference, even though the difference on paper is huge. Only a one on one drag race would have made it apparent

Last edited by hifisharu : 27th November 2014 at 13:05. Reason: added personal details
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Old 27th November 2014, 13:04   #232
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Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
I personally have never ridden the Street Triple or the Z800 till date. But, how is it that guys at Overdrive did not notice the lower power output of the Street Triple when they were doing the comparison review on these two bikes??
To put it crassly, the bride's virtues were fabricated, the brokers (auto mags) deny any knowledge, and in the end, only the groom is crying.

And to add to it, even a 10 PS loss translates to the output of an average Indian bike.

Last edited by anilp : 27th November 2014 at 13:06.
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Old 27th November 2014, 13:19   #233
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
AVI - i empathise with you. I am infuriated without even buying the bike, i can only imagine what you are going through
Frankly, i don't really care about the power drop itself (given that i have already bought the bike). However, the whole misrepresentation thing is putting me off. I also am clear, that i would not have picked up the Striple at 8.8L if i knew it was 85BHP, irrespective of me being unable to tell the difference from the Z800 at lower speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
I had serious plans of upgrading to the Street Triple sometime down the line.

I also took a spin on the bike and loved every bit of it.

But with all this hoopla about detuning, I'm dropping any plans of buying this bike for now.
I understand completely. Had i found this thread 3 days earlier, i would have cancelled my Striple booking also. As luck would have it, the day i find this thread is the day my bike goes to the RTO for registration. Interestingly, the dealers continued to say that the bike is the 106BHP version and i don't understand how, cause they had access to ARAI certificate all along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
It's not the bike or the performance or the specs I'm talking about but the trust and integrity of the brand itself.
Exactly. I had plans to get Arrows and a lot more mods for the bike, and now am just left wondering if its worth putting more money in given how unsure i am of the company itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
My approach of wait and watch definitely has paid off. I did this when Kawasaki launched the 250R and put my money down only after a few months judging their seriousness and customer centric approach.
Ironically, i waited for 6 months (after Pune dealership opened) for the exact same reasons as you. And this fiasco comes to light on the day my bike is fully paid for

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
If you know the dealership network and how it is run in India, I would not be so hasty in blaming the dealers. They are limited to Triumph India management for everything, including information about the bikes, stock, parts, etc.
But the dealers had the ARAI certifcate, which clearly called out the power rating. Were the dealers told by Triumph, that the certificate value was fudged to clear ARAI certification but the bikes were the 106BHP versions? How can the dealers be that naive?

Last edited by A_v_i : 27th November 2014 at 13:21.
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Old 27th November 2014, 13:49   #234
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

@A_v_i: Don't give up hope yet. The light at the end of the tunnel is that with some aftermarket bits and some tuning, you can get back all that is lost. It's still a great platform to begin with. I can tell you in the 10,000kms that Ive clocked so far, that the bike is awesome, and brings a wide grin every time I ride. It's a great product, no doubt. People who only look at the paper values and have the ' I want most value for my money' attitude are mistaken. There are some intangible factors which make it still value for money. I have no regrets of buying the Street, or about being a triumph customer. Errors and mistakes are a part and parcel of life, one should just be dignified enough to admit it and offer some amends
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Old 27th November 2014, 14:42   #235
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Before ranting,
1. Some Striple owner should get their bike dynoed and clear the air.
2. Get copies of brochures and see whether there is a disclaimer saying they are european specifiation.
3. Any posters or boards claiming the higher bhp figures without disclaimers to strengthen their case.

PS- this a wonderful placebo experiment done by triumph on the Indian junta. Not only did the owners(unfortunately , most of them upgrading from smaller bikes) but even test riders from big magazine who have swung their legs over much bigger bikes and have good riding time on them failed to recognise a 79ps bike from a 106ps bike.
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Old 27th November 2014, 14:55   #236
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by downsouth View Post
Found another article on OD seems to be an additional article explaining the different state of tune and goes out to actually correct their previous articles with updated figures

http://overdrive.in/news/analysis-tr...falls-to-79ps/
Please, they have got their figures completely wrong.
Quote:
However, if you do upgrade to the Arrow exhaust which Triumph offers out of its dealerships, you will come close to the 106PS spec.
An exhaust increasing up to 33% power is pure bullcrap. The guys at OD need to understand that people are not so dumb to believe whatever the ignorant test riders/copy writers choose to gargle out of their bloated voicebox. Please bring some credibility into this.
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Old 27th November 2014, 15:11   #237
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

I read about and initially posted on this thread since I have been making my mind up about what I want - the Bonneville or the 800 XC.

I'll limit my thoughts to the tuning debate since the additional points raised about service, parts etc. are orthogonal to this thread.

I believe that Triumph messed things up by what is tantamount to mis-advertising products. The reasons could be manifold (lack of attention to detail in marketing material, squaring things off with regulatory approvals, wilful misrepresentation etc). In any case, guessing the reasons is an exercise of pure conjecture.

Call me a Skoda owner (I was a happy Laura owner and now own a Jetta) . But I tend to look beyond the company to figure out what I really want, which to me is paramount.

If I had been interested in a Street Triple and had intended to keep my bike stock, I would simply look elsewhere.

If I'm an existing Street Triple owner, I'd be rightfully incensed. But I'd direct all my ire at Triumph towards a solution that would get me up to the spec that I thought that I'd originally purchased. All my tirades and anger would be focused on achieving this objective.

Among the Bonneville and Tiger XC, the Tiger XC has not been de-fanged and the Bonneville marginally so. My thought process is now as follows:
- Would I be happy with the stock Bonneville?
- With reasonable spend (e.g. on the Arrows), can I get to UK-factory-tune + performance bump?

I believe the answer to both of these questions is "yes". So, I'm back to square one as to deciding about what I want in the first place, which is squarely within my control.

Or to extend the Mark Twainism "I've never let school interfere with my education", I'm not going to let Triumph India interfere with my enjoyment of riding an awesome machine.
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Old 27th November 2014, 15:11   #238
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quite shameful and not expected from a company like Triumph -

http://www.vivekthakur.com/blogs/viv...-powered-bikes
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Old 27th November 2014, 15:23   #239
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by BackInTheFold View Post
My thought process is now as follows:
- Would I be happy with the stock Bonneville?
- With reasonable spend (e.g. on the Arrows), can I get to UK-factory-tune + performance bump?

I believe the answer to both of these questions is "yes".

I'm not going to let Triumph India interfere with my enjoyment of riding an awesome machine.
I fully agree with you.

Go for it and I am sure you are going to be happy.

Best Regards & Thanks

Ram
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Old 27th November 2014, 16:14   #240
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

So....does that mean that the word is finally out! Those of us who were sitting smug with the belief that we were the lucky ones to have the pre-2015 Triumphs at their std international states of tune - join the "de-tuned" gang!

Triumph always sold differently tuned bikes in India
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