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Old 17th November 2014, 14:57   #16
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Originally Posted by Silverflash View Post
You've piqued my curiosity, Doc - how would a manufacturer go about keeping news of failed engines off forums and communities? Not that I'm claiming that Triumph is doing this, but am wondering how they could control that kind of information when all it takes is for a miffed customer to get online and bang out a post.
Its very very easy. And involves buying the customer's silence with quick questionless replacements under warranty with other goodies added on for extra measure, all done with a smile, friendly attitude, and a lot of followup and personal one on one attention from higher ups. Very rarely would an owner be churlish enough then to make a big song and dance about it. After all, if its happened once, it can happen again. You don't want to kill the goose that lays the replacement egg. Most companies have budgets in crores for warranty replacments for exactly this reason. Its still a whole lot cheaper than wholesale callback. Not to mention the bad press. Also, its a well known fact that in high profile brands and bike models, such replacements are never done on the open shop floor of the workshop .....

Last edited by ebonho : 17th November 2014 at 15:03.
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Old 17th November 2014, 15:40   #17
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Originally Posted by Silverflash View Post
If that is the case and the numbers are not a typo, a hasty booking (especially of the Street Triple) could see the customer landed with an emasculated imitation of the original that they fell in love with.
I meant ofcourse after knowing for sure that Stripple that is being delivered is the one with original state of engine tune

Anyways, I agree its always safe to wait it out and make an informed decision

P.S: Buy a pre-owned Stripple from someone bought in June 2014 or before. Cant get any safer than this
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Old 17th November 2014, 16:08   #18
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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While iam sure respective city folks are reaching out to Triumph dealership to find out if this is a hoax call or done for some reason. Information should come out sometime later this week

In the meantime, if your convinced on the Stripple, why don't you buy it immediately (provided they have stock)

All this talk is for 2015 models which will not come before Feb/Mar 2015
I'd love to buy one immediately Avi, but the showroom here is formally opening on 26th of this month and deliveries for bookings done about a month earlier will commence from this month end. So, in any case, I'm not going to get my bike before Dec end atleast even if I book today. And that's why I'm holding my horses till I get some concrete news on the power figures.

I called up the Sales manager and he has no idea about the figures being different in print brochures and online. Said he'll find out and get back. Let's see.


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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

On the topic of detuned Triumphs, one possibility which no one seems to be mentioning is engine failures which have been kept off the forums and other online communities.

Doc, have there been engine failures on the Triumphs already? Pardon my ignorance, as I've not heard any news relevant to this, and this comes as a surprise. Actually make that shock.

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post

P.S: Buy a pre-owned Stripple from someone bought in June 2014 or before. Cant get any safer than this
Any leads?

Last edited by dreamseller : 17th November 2014 at 16:10. Reason: MultiQuote
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Old 17th November 2014, 16:13   #19
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Doc, have there been engine failures on the Triumphs already? Pardon my ignorance, as I've not heard any news relevant to this, and this comes as a surprise. Actually make that shock.
Omg no buddy, I have not heard any such thing. I was merely wondering why such an obvious reason had not been put forward as a potential reason for such drastic detuning. Normally fuel related detuning is not as drastic. Engine reliability related detuning often is. Sometimes it may not even be full blown failures. But some components showing accelerated wear and tear, which if left unchecked/unreplaced, would/could lead to catastrophic failure. Such things could be seen in the field. Or could be seen in long term testers .....
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Old 17th November 2014, 16:27   #20
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Normally fuel related detuning is not as drastic. Engine reliability related detuning often is. Sometimes it may not even be full blown failures. But some components showing accelerated wear and tear, which if left unchecked/unreplaced, would/could lead to catastrophic failure. Such things could be seen in the field. Or could be seen in long term testers .....
Doc, I guess fuel will be a reason for detuning indian bikes since its only indian website reflecting lower power figures and not others like UK.

Street triple has been in the market for many years and IMO i don't think certain part failure could be cause except fuel related issue.

OT: I hope some one from maruti has not joined triumph as he/she will suggest detuning engines in the interest of better fuel economy or even suggest non-abs variant for lowering entry price point
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Old 17th November 2014, 16:32   #21
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Doc, I guess fuel will be a reason for detuning indian bikes since its only indian website reflecting lower power figures and not others like UK.

Street triple has been in the market for many years and IMO i don't think certain part failure could be cause except fuel related issue.
What about a part failure due to fuel/composition issue?

Remember the ethanol and valve stem issue in Pune/Maharashtra a few years ago?
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Old 17th November 2014, 16:33   #22
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
I thought you were joking and then found it to be true. I am not sure whether its a typo since quite a few models have been detuned.

Street triple- 79PS (105 earlier) and 57NM (68 earlier).
Speed Triple- 127PS (134 earlier) and 105NM (111 earlier).
Daytona makes 118PS now.

I wish its a typo as why will they detune to such an extent (ST) that they will give competitors a reason to smile.
I don't know which site you are referring to. I just had a look at the Triumph Global site today and through that to UK and India page. The screen shots for the Engine spec of STT ABS are as follows showing an identical fgure of 106PS. You can make out which page is which from the price being quoted.

Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-stt-site-ps-ind.jpg

Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-stt-site-ps-uk.jpg


I guess we won't know the correct picture until the bikes are out, I suppose (May be the India site has been hacked )

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram

Last edited by r_nairtvm : 17th November 2014 at 16:36.
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Old 17th November 2014, 16:42   #23
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

Ram, You may click on SPECS and scroll down to view power/torque figures i updated earlier.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
What about a part failure due to fuel/composition issue?

Remember the ethanol and valve stem issue in Pune/Maharashtra a few years ago?
Last year i had a discussion with a triumph executive on various topics including fuel requirement. I was told that they sells bikes in various markets which have lower fuel quality than India and bikes work absolutely fine since ECU can alter fuelling. AFAIK Brazil has similar fuel quality issues like India and now i see power/torque figures for ST (Brazil) as 85BHP and 61NM. So they have detuned there as well. I hope some gets a response from triumph which will clear doubts.

Last edited by djay99 : 17th November 2014 at 16:52.
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Old 17th November 2014, 18:46   #24
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

I would not have bought the Street if it was detuned then. Would have rather gone with the bonnie at the best. Bad move.

Just wondering if this has to do something more than that meets the eyes, some new power to tax ratio? :P
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Old 17th November 2014, 19:30   #25
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

The plot thickens on the de-tune saga.

I spoke to the sales chap at the Bangalore dealer today as a follow-up, thinking that they would have gotten their story together. I got thrown a bit of a curve-ball/googly for my troubles.

He claimed today that all the bikes sold in India to date have been in the same state of de-tune as currently (and very confusingly) mentioned on the Triumph India website/brochure. In other words, all Bonnies delivered to date are at 61 PS tune.

Since I could not keep up with the rapidly changing versions any longer, I've asked to speak to the service head, who I hope has a single coherent answer. I have been assured a call back tomorrow. Let's see if he has a well-informed take on the matter.
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Old 17th November 2014, 20:18   #26
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A few dyno runs should reveal the truth about the performance of bikes already sold. If it already de tuned as per the sales executive, they should get their lawyers ready. But this is highly unlikely. Triumph will lose its steam if the detuning of engines really happens, unless they decide to reduce the prices. The people at Kawasaki are probably smiling ear to ear after all this hula loop.
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Old 17th November 2014, 20:46   #27
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

Doc, as far as I know, there aren't any engine breakdown cases reported, due the fuel quality. There's only a small number of these bikes sold, so we'd surely hear from someone who had any, off-the-record in case you think they might have been 'bought'. From the several visits to the dealer, I haven't seen any bike yet come for major trouble. (touchwood) These are the most reliable Triumphs yet ! Until just 2-3 years ago, there were quite a few complaints about quality , though the most common issues were simpler ones like oil or coolant leaks.

The major disappointment is that the Street Triple sees the biggest loss (27hp) in power, from 106PS to 79PS. That severely affects its VFM quotient, when the Ninja 650 can be had with 72hp for a good 3 lac less , and that's before we have the CBR650F.

The Daytona loses 10hp (128PS to 118PS), the Speed Triple loses just 8 ( 135 down to 127 ). The cruisers and adventure bikes stay the same - what I was told was these these are CBU imports and hence unchanged, while the assembled models are getting detuned. I hope the Street Triple figure is a typo, and it's 97 (a loss of 9hp) rather than 79PS. This is the model that will be hit hardest.

Whoever at Triumph decided this turn of events, has a good lot of explaining to do.

Last edited by Ricci : 17th November 2014 at 20:47.
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Old 17th November 2014, 23:21   #28
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

I now own STriple for more than four months and have covered around 6K KM on it, never noticed any serious issues due to fuel quality apart from couple of abrupt stalls in first gear. Otherwise no issues at all and I do ride her as hard as possible.

If fuel quality was the issue, why detune is not consistent across the range? Why higher compression ratio engines still holds better power figures?

There is definitely more to it than what meets the eyes and Triumph needs to uncover all the facts to the customers ASAP.
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Old 18th November 2014, 14:49   #29
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Originally Posted by dreamseller View Post
Doc, have there been engine failures on the Triumphs already? Pardon my ignorance, as I've not heard any news relevant to this, and this comes as a surprise. Actually make that shock.
My friend's DaytonaR suffered internal engine damage a few months back. It stalled abruptly on the highway on a ride and it had to be trucked back to the service center.

IIRC, it was a bent piston and they had to send the engine back to the factory for repairs. He was glad to get the bike back on the road after a long hiatus. I was surprised he did not ask for a new engine instead. IIRC, some technicians from UK came down and took a look at the engine personally to find out why it failed prematurely.

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Originally Posted by Akhilash95 View Post
A few dyno runs should reveal the truth about the performance of bikes already sold. If it already de tuned as per the sales executive, they should get their lawyers ready. But this is highly unlikely. Triumph will lose its steam if the detuning of engines really happens, unless they decide to reduce the prices. The people at Kawasaki are probably smiling ear to ear after all this hula loop.
This would amount to cheating customers. How can they publish (misleading) information on their websites and brochures and then say it's detuned?

I'm disappointed with this attitude from Triumph and hoping that they resolve this in the interest of existing and prospective customers. I was considering the Street Triple and if the bike is actually detuned, then I'll spend my money elsewhere. 9L+ for a 79 PS motor? Excuse me.
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Old 18th November 2014, 14:54   #30
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Default Re: Triumph motorcycles to enter India. Edit: Now Launched Pg. 48

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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
My friend's DaytonaR suffered internal engine damage a few months back. It stalled abruptly on the highway on a ride and it had to be trucked back to the service center.

IIRC, it was a bent piston and they had to send the engine back to the factory for repairs.
Just to clarify, it was a bent valve, and not the piston. Exact reason why this might have happened is still unknown. But so far, this has been the only isolated case, so we can't blame the company straight away.
P.S I'm no Triumph Fan boy, just clarifying the details
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