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Old 28th November 2014, 19:18   #301
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Used to think that was linked to rider's age.
IIRC, hard limit of 75 KW in France. Was dropped later to harmonise with EU rules. What needs to be investigated is when the rules were dropped, and whether the STriple was introduced before that or not, and at what power rating.

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Wasn't that the agreement that was made to cap the top speeds of all bikes to 300 km/h worldwide?
Germany, of the no speed limit autobahn, showcasing superior German technology, had to do things behind closed doors, through gentlemen's agreement. Closed door = rumours aplenty. The 300 kmph limit was just the most talked about.

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Sutripta
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Old 28th November 2014, 19:23   #302
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

So Triumph has basically paid a PR agency to soak up all the ill-will aimed at Triumph. That is so unprofessional. Atleast own and face the wrath. This way they are making things worse (Dont talk to us, talk to them)
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Old 28th November 2014, 19:24   #303
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
Long story short, Triumph isn't running away but someone needs to pick up a brick bat and give them what they have earned for themselves. A good beating...and a high value litigation.
My primary concern is with regards to Triumph's future in India, is this the beginning of the end? Great calculation Sting, listing out how expensive it might be for Triumph to exit India. The following is an interesting article from late 2013, that states that Triumph had to declare losses because of the cost of their entry into India.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...oss/24167.html

Assuming that it might not be possible for Triumph to at least change the spec of the Striple (that would also require recertification from ARAI), am left wondering what else can they do.
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Old 28th November 2014, 19:47   #304
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I still insist there is something extremely fishy about Triumph's explanation.

How is it that Triumph's 85 becomes 79 when ARAI tests it? Why is it that Kawasaki N650 gets identical to the decimal point ratings of 72.1 in India and abroad? Are they not displaying ARAI numbers?

Care to compare other CKD bikes and their ratings?

Really stale English Fish and chips.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
Good point. If I'm right, 79PS is 77.9BHP which is nowhere close to 85BHP. I believe the next official statement will be "79PS is equal to 85BHP as per Triumph's Physics formulae which is also mentioned in the website's terms and conditions. I'm not sure whether they think customer's just pay money but will not notice these small things or do they think they can quote a power figure to ARAI and then mention in the press release that it is equal to some random number which the Triumph official can think of when he is releasing the press note.

Isn't there a rule wherein the company should quote ARAI power figures everywhere when it is being sold here?

Official press release states that it is UK data and is mentioned in the website's terms and conditions . I just read the same and here is a small bit taken from it :

Reasonable care is taken to ensure the accuracy of information and related materials provided by Triumph Motorcycles Limited on this Website, however, Triumph Motorcycles Limited is not responsible for misprints, out-of-date information, technical or pricing inaccuracies, typographical or other errors appearing on this Website or any other Website. Information and related materials are subject to change without notice. By using this Website, you assume the risk that the information and materials on this Website may be incomplete, inaccurate, out-of-date, or may not meet your needs and requirements. Please note that this Website contains images of Motorbikes that feature accessories and this may or may not be stated.


I don't understand one thing. How on earth such a big manufacturer use another country's power figures even though the website is kept as http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in?


They have mentioned us to use the email customer care email id. When Triumph started their sales in India, Chennai did not have a showroom. I used contact us form asking if there will be a showroom in Chennai and if not, how will the servicing be done if I purchase the bike from another city. I haven't received a response yet.

A small story. I visited Triumph Chennai showroom sometime back to test ride the Street Triple (Had plans of buying it back then). I requested for a Spec sheet and they provided me a huge poster of Daytona 675R which had specs of all the bikes in the back. Attaching images of the same (apologies for the poor image quality). Even in the spec sheet it is mentioned that it is a 106PS model. So how will a buyer know that the one he is getting is not the 106PS model but the 85BHP model? Such a nice bike to ride but Triumph's poor contact with the customers or keeping them posted leaves a disappointment.

So this concludes to 3 things : Misinforming customers, quoting wrong figures during the press release as well and escaping from the problem by referring to Terms and Conditions.

Triumph India, a small suggestion. Please edit your Terms and Conditions to "We are not responsible for any confusion that occurs. If you have a confusion, please read the above statement again".


Edit : Just noticed, Triumph has updated the specs in the website. Now this shows they have made a mistake and not just a T&C escape. I strongly believe, any owner can file a case for cheating, providing misleading information and mostly importantly mental torture.
Attached Thumbnails
Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-20141128_1922501.jpg  

Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-20141128_1923081.jpg  


Last edited by Astonite : 28th November 2014 at 19:55. Reason: updating more info
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Old 28th November 2014, 23:30   #305
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Jhol pe Jhol !! and i was thinking of buying a Bonnie in Jan 2015. I just love the understated elegance of the bike. But given the lack of integrity and honesty displayed by Triumph, i wonder if they will every honour their 2 yr unlimited mileage warranty if the need arises!
If they can claim this( Triumph Motorcycles Limited is not responsible for misprints, out-of-date information, technical or pricing inaccuracies, typographical or other errors appearing on this Website or any other Website. Information and related materials are subject to change without notice. By using this Website, you assume the risk that the information and materials on this Website may be incomplete, inaccurate, out-of-date, or may not meet your needs and requirements...) on their website, then , what should i trust and what should i believe!!
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Old 29th November 2014, 01:47   #306
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Default Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with falsified performance figures !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I still insist there is something extremely fishy about Triumph's explanation.

How is it that Triumph's 85 becomes 79 when ARAI tests it? Why is it that Kawasaki N650 gets identical to the decimal point ratings of 72.1 in India and abroad? Are they not displaying ARAI numbers?

.

I totally agree with you.Infact ninja650 also came to my mind when this entire triumph detuning and saying that ARAI is giving different power readings when compared to EU spec.
I couldnt find the ARAI spec sheet of ninja 650/300/250(all of them CKD's).All of them have similar indian specs when compared to their international versions.

I strong feel that triumph has actually detuned bonnie,street,speed & daytona for INDIA to be on safe-side considering the fuel quality avaiable when compared to EU(does arai got to do something here?).Also note that speed,street and daytona have relatively higher compression ratios when compared to n650/300..etc.
They always want to get the 85PS version of street here.So in this process they detuned their entire range including the already detuned 85PS street thus making it 79.

I also heard some of showroom guys saying that they will launch street triple R in the coming year(2015).Even this might be reason for them to bring the 85PS version of street.What they have done till here is totally upto them

But they failed to the show the same specs in their entire marketing material and always spoke about their international(EU) specs for reasons known only to them.Some owners even received official documents with the international specs.(May be they thought we will never realise about this entire thing)

I arrived at this assuming that ARAI gave correct rating for the ninjas which were brought via CKD route(would like to see if someone can post ARAI certificates for the same)

Last edited by harsha.muvva : 29th November 2014 at 02:03.
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Old 29th November 2014, 07:48   #307
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by harsha.muvva View Post

I strong feel that triumph has actually detuned bonnie,street,speed & daytona for INDIA to be on safe-side considering the fuel quality avaiable when compared to EU(does arai got to do something here?).Also note that speed,street and daytona have relatively higher compression ratios when compared to n650/300..etc.
They always want to get the 85PS version of street here.So in this process they detuned their entire range including the already detuned 85PS street thus making it 79.
I don't buy this bad fuel theory at all.

If their bikes are rated for a certain output for 95 RON, what's stopping them from supplying bikes for testing to ARAI with a tankful of Speed97?
Does ARAI's mandate include democratization? If 95+ RON fuel is available in India, why should they not use that to test? Just because it is not available countrywide? Is that ARAI's problem?

Let's say ARAI had nothing to do with the decision to bring in detuned bikes. Based on what evidence or research did they deduce that their bikes will not handle Indian fuel? Are there several cases of Superbikes getting buggered due to bad fuel in India? I haven't heard of it. Am I wrong?

If the bikes have been detuned for bad fuel, why are they still rated at 95 RON? Should they not be ready and rated for lower octane?

Not buying any of it.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
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Old 29th November 2014, 07:55   #308
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
Bonnevilles, which is what I was (am?) looking to buy is basically not a changed motorcycle from what UK specs offer- poor fuel quality (maybe slight detuning) etc has resulted in lower bhp and torque numbers.
Triumph's statements, that Bonneville's and Daytona's are in their UK spec and the ARAI figures are just reflections of the quality of fuel, irritates me further. If Daytona's and Bonneville's will run just fine with the fuel in India, what's special about the Striple that it could not be sold in its UK spec.
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Old 29th November 2014, 08:22   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
I don't buy this bad fuel theory at all.



If their bikes are rated for a certain output for 95 RON, what's stopping them from supplying bikes for testing to ARAI with a tankful of Speed97?

Does ARAI's mandate include democratization? If 95+ RON fuel is available in India, why should they not use that to test? Just because it is not available countrywide? Is that ARAI's problem?

.

I am not saying that ARAI Forced triumph to detune their bikes.
Triumph decided to detune their bikes and got the detuned ones to India which ARAI tested and rated.

Why triumph decided to detune is best known only to them.It might their bikes having any specific issues to the normal fuel available here or just to promote the sales of arrow exhausts(they offer remaps aswell with exhausts)

Best regards,
Harsha
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Old 29th November 2014, 08:27   #310
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

I was wondering, with wrong bhp figures being the main culprit in Triumphs case, compare that to HD who don't disclose a bhp figure at all.

Are HD bikes the same that are sold in the US or is it de-tuned as well and what is the way to know that.

I am not planning on starting a debate with this statement but curious as to how different bikes are in India compared to their US models.
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Old 29th November 2014, 08:48   #311
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Found this on their fb page. Might be or might have been taken down already. These guys had been tomtomming the 100bhp figure when the bike was launched - without disclaimers
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Old 29th November 2014, 08:52   #312
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If its a CKD it will have ARAI certificate, look here for HD bhp figure for super glide custom and fat bob
http://it.delhigovt.nic.in/writeread...r201475262.pdf

Summary 56kW @ 5250 super glide custom
57kW @ 5250 fat bob

I don't have US number but if its available somewhere we can compare

-Pramod
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Old 29th November 2014, 09:06   #313
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Mik View Post
Found this on their fb page. Might be or might have been taken down already. These guys had been tomtomming the 100bhp figure when the bike was launched - without disclaimers
Another good find. With each passing day i am getting more and more convinced that Triumph is a sitting duck. Is it the Brits that say 'Will someone shoot the fish in the barrel?'..
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Old 29th November 2014, 12:43   #314
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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If its a CKD it will have ARAI certificate, look here for HD bhp figure for super glide custom and fat bob
http://it.delhigovt.nic.in/writeread...r201475262.pdf

Summary 56kW @ 5250 super glide custom
57kW @ 5250 fat bob

I don't have US number but if its available somewhere we can compare

-Pramod
Compared the torque figures between India , US and UK for fatbob.

India - 126nm at 3500rpm
US - 98.8ft-lb at 3500rpm which as per a chart works out to 134nm
UK - 132nm at 3250 rpm .

This article at the end carries BHP and torque figures which as per 3rd party testing norm(I am assuming they hit the dyno themselves ) is lower than the figure quoted by manufacturer but also lower than the ARAI certificate number . Me thinks HD is fine on this front .

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...f-fat-bob.html
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Old 29th November 2014, 12:43   #315
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by pramods View Post
If its a CKD it will have ARAI certificate, look here for HD bhp figure for super glide custom and fat bob
http://it.delhigovt.nic.in/writeread...r201475262.pdf

Summary 56kW @ 5250 super glide custom
57kW @ 5250 fat bob

I don't have US number but if its available somewhere we can compare

-Pramod
The India version of Fat Bob is not the same as the US version - 96 cu.in vs 103 cu.in. Having said that, HD hasn't really hid the difference of engine capacity from the customers. This difference is also present for the same bikes sold in Brazil, Thailand and Vietnam.
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