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Old 1st December 2014, 21:56   #361
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
Take money and wait for a few months. I read they are launching ST R which has fully adjustable suspension + better brakes and since there is no brazilian model, i am sure it makes 100bhp.
Where is the Striple R news coming from, i don't remember reading anything serious. I would surely ask for the ARAI certificate before putting down my booking amount

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Now that will be VFM if priced in region of current ST.
Well, only if they slash the price of the current Striple.
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Old 1st December 2014, 22:00   #362
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Spoke to my Triumph dealer today. He said Red Rooster has dyno'd a stock ST3 and the output was 101BHP. I'm not sure if this is an authentic news.

Edit : A_v_i, very true. Closing the BHP discussion with this image. Source: RD FB page. It looks like the dealers are still fooling around with the customers.
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Last edited by Astonite : 1st December 2014 at 22:28.
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Old 1st December 2014, 22:14   #363
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Astonite View Post
Spoke to my Triumph dealer today. He said Red Rooster has dyno'd a stock ST3 and the output was 101BHP. I'm not sure if this is an authentic news.
How can that be, given that Triumph has already acknowledged that the Striples sold in India are the 85BHP versions. All these dyno runs are now just causing more confusion and distracting the discussions.

Since the company has officially acknowledged that they have always been selling 85BHP Striples, the matter is closed on what the power figures are. The only open question is what Triumph is going to do about customers who bought Striples (Bonnies, Daytonas, Speed Triples) with the understanding that they were buying 106PS (UK Spec) versions.

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Old 1st December 2014, 22:53   #364
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
How can that be, given that Triumph has already acknowledged that the Striples sold in India are the 85BHP versions. All these dyno runs are now just causing more confusion and distracting the discussions.

Since the company has officially acknowledged that they have always been selling 85BHP Striples, the matter is closed on what the power figures are. The only open question is what Triumph is going to do about customers who bought Striples (Bonnies, Daytonas, Speed Triples) with the understanding that they were buying 106PS (UK Spec) versions.
you stole our Kohinoor and now you stole the 25bhp! Can we atleast have the bhp back please?

And hope all auto journos learned a new lesson by now: when you do reviews, post ARAI certificates too.
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Old 1st December 2014, 23:40   #365
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Astonite View Post
Closing the BHP discussion with this image. Source: RD FB page. It looks like the dealers are still fooling around with the customers.
As far as i know, the graph you have attached is of a Striple with "Arrows + ECU Map", producing 80BHP at the wheels. However, the controversy that happened was because RD initially posted the graphs without mentioning the performance mods, etc.

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you stole our Kohinoor and now you stole the 25bhp! Can we atleast have the bhp back please?
I think we stand a better chance of getting the Kohinoor back...

Last edited by A_v_i : 1st December 2014 at 23:48.
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Old 1st December 2014, 23:43   #366
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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
FYI, AFAIK, the graph you have attached is of a Striple with "Arrows + ECU Map", producing 80BHP at the wheels. However, the controversy that happened was because RD initially posted the graphs without mentioning the performance mods, etc.
I believe this is for the stock. Avishar has posted the modded one earlier. Here is the link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superbikes-imports/157774-triumph-india-sold-bikes-india-fake-performance-figures-post3591706.html
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Old 1st December 2014, 23:46   #367
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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I believe this is for the stock. Avishar has posted the modded one earlier. Here is the link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3591706
Again, as far as i know, Avishar's graph is for the same bike but showing estimated power at the crank, which RD magically calculated and published without first disclosing the BHP at wheels graph.

Last edited by A_v_i : 1st December 2014 at 23:49.
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Old 1st December 2014, 23:50   #368
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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
Again AFAIK, Avishkar's graph is for the same bike but showing estimated power at the crank, which RD magically calculated and published without disclosing the BHP at wheels graph.
My apologies. I was thinking power 0 is power at crank and Power 1 is for the wheel. It would be great if you could explain the difference between power 0 and 1. IIRC, the confusion was that they didn't mention about the exhaust and ECU remap which Avishar confirmed.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 06:56   #369
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Guys, please stop this confusion. There is only one dyno graph available as of now, and that is of the Street Triple with Arrows and ECU re-tune. And as pointed out correctly by A_v_i, when Triumph India has declared they have always delivered only the 85 bhp bike, why are the stupid dealers still trying to convince the customers about the 105 bhp bike?
Why did Race Dynamic try to pull the wool over the customer's eyes by showing the 'corrected' crank value? No point in digging deeper there.

Case is simple: Triumph sold us the bike saying it should produce 105bhp, and has given us the 85 bhp bike, to which they have admitted. Clear case of cheating.

Astonite, all the vehicle dynamometers measure the horse power at the wheel. So what you see there is the wheel horsepower. The Power0, Power1 graphs are for the number of dyno runs they've made. If I can explain, no dyno will give you the correct result in the very first run. So they keep doing runs till a stable value is reached ( within 2% variation) and then the average value is accepted as the horsepower value.

However, in the above case, Race Dynamics has published the values for two bikes in one graph. One was a bike with around 14000 kms on the Odo, the other one just out of first service, so around 1500 kms. The newer one shows the higher figure

Last edited by hifisharu : 2nd December 2014 at 07:01.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 08:17   #370
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

And Triumph admits and offers an apology.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/busine...1-1292261.aspx

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Legendary British superbike maker Triumph on Monday said it would reach out to each of the near-100 customers of its roadster, Street Triple, after facing a backlash for exaggerating the power output of the bike in India by over 25%.

The company had said the Street Triple produces 106 PS power, but this is the European variant. Last month it updated the figures for the Indian version at 79 PS, setting off howls of protest from buyers.

Last Friday, Triumph issued a formal clarification, and promised to redress their grievances.

"It is an error of communication and we should not have used the EU specifications on our website," Vimal Sumbly, managing director, Triumph Motorcycles India told Hindustan Times. "We are doing our best to reach out to each of our Street Triple customers. We will try and understand their grievances and take care of each of the issues. We have been transparent in our approach and Triumph is the only super bike company that gives out detailed specifications of its bikes in India."

Triumph entered India last year, and has 12 bikes in the country, seven of them assembled here. The 650-cc Street Triple was launched in November 2013 and costs `7.65 lakh (ex-showroom Delhi). The engine of the Street Triple is tuned differently for India, Brazil and Japan with a lower power output. The other bikes too have nominal power variations, but the company blamed this on different testing methods and the poor fuel quality.

Triumph said on its Facebook page that the Street Triple sold in India has always been the 85PS variant, and that it understood it has created some confusion with customers. "We request our customers to kindly allow us some time to review and revert on the same," it said.

Customers have been unforgiving. "I tested the (Kawasaki) Z800 also before deciding in favour of the Street Triple. You guys think that if you had told us then that it was 79 PS we would have even test ridden it?" Ronny Sequeira, one of the owners, wrote on the company's Facebook page. "Instead of being downright cheap and slimy do the right thing and issue an apology followed by a deadline by which you (will) rectify this issue… we still love our Street Triple, but please don't treat us as ignorant Indians."
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Old 2nd December 2014, 08:28   #371
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Triumph entered India last year, and has 12 bikes in the country, seven of them assembled here. The 650-cc Street Triple was launched in November 2013 and costs `7.65 lakh (ex-showroom Delhi). The engine of the Street Triple is tuned differently for India, Brazil and Japan with a lower power output. The other bikes too have nominal power variations, but the company blamed this on different testing methods and the poor fuel quality.
Why do they make these factual errors? 650cc? All the content writers tend to trivialize the figures, which leads to more and more confusion.

Anyway, though the formal apology is out, their claim of reaching out to Street Triple customers is far from true. I for one haven't been contacted in anyway, despite repeated emails to the showroom and the head office.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 09:45   #372
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
And Triumph admits and offers an apology.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/busine...1-1292261.aspx

The other bikes too have nominal power variations, but the company blamed this on different testing methods and the poor fuel quality.

Does this mean that all other variants have the same specifications as sold internationally and the drop in power is only due to the "different" testing methods and bad fuel quality in India?

If yes, then (1) Why does this not happen to other brands who continue to advertise and sell their bikes in India as per their international specifications! (2) Why did Triumph update its website with the "new" specifications for all models if the difference was only due to different testing and bad fuel quality. No other manufacturer is doing this.

I think there is some detuning involved in the other models too apart from the ST3. The massive difference in case of ST3 is what blew their cover.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 09:51   #373
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Why does this not happen to other brands who continue to advertise and sell their bikes in India as per their international specifications!
Well, i have not seen ARAI certificates for other CKD bikes, have others? CBUs don't need ARAI certification, so we do not know their state of tune or whether they show similar power drops in India.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 10:02   #374
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Does this mean that all other variants have the same specifications as sold internationally and the drop in power is only due to the "different" testing methods and bad fuel quality in India?
I don't really understand why this confusion, isn't it clear! all that was a big cover up story??!!

Street Triple Sold In India Was Brazilian Spec 85 Bhp Version

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Well, i have not seen ARAI certificates for other CKD bikes, have others? CBUs don't need ARAI certification, so we do not know their state of tune or whether they show similar power drops in India.
Refer manual and then cross check the exact model number with your Vin. Apart from India these are very serious issues that customers don't take lying down. Even in India things are fast changing and this admission is the proof. Even Kawa has listed all version of Z800 and outputs, one just needs to cross check the Vin.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 10:20   #375
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Refer manual and then cross check the exact model number with your Vin.
Right, but anything other than a dyno run would be inconclusive. Of course, the dyno runs for the Striples so far have not given me much confidence in them either
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