Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes > Superbikes & Imports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th December 2014, 17:50   #436
Senior - BHPian
 
r_nairtvm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dubai/TRV/BLR
Posts: 1,718
Thanked: 1,526 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
Anyone filed case against them or all are waiting for someone else to file a case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Yeah even I wonder, nobody has gone legal against them yet as this has been going on for a while now? (this is not to instigate anyone against the brand)
To be fair to TI, as been mentioned in this thread, they have been in touch, with the worst affected lot i.e. the StT owners.

Only when that avenue has reached a dead end, people should look at a legal recourse, isn't that a more prudent approach ?

The Triumph Engineers have delivered few capable machines, a fact which has now been seriously over shadowed by the outright lies propagate by the the "Sales/Marketing" Team (perhaps they still believe in the old school thought of "repeat a lie 100 time and it shall be accepted as truth")

The irony is that it was not required at all (the lies). The machines would have sold in good numbers by its own merit.



Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram

Last edited by r_nairtvm : 8th December 2014 at 17:52.
r_nairtvm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 18:07   #437
Senior - BHPian
 
Shubz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,799
Thanked: 983 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
To be fair to TI, as been mentioned in this thread, they have been in touch, with the worst affected lot i.e. the StT owners.

Only when that avenue has reached a dead end, people should look at a legal recourse, isn't that a more prudent approach ?

The Triumph Engineers have delivered few capable machines, a fact which has now been seriously over shadowed by the outright lies propagate by the the "Sales/Marketing" Team (perhaps they still believe in the old school thought of "repeat a lie 100 time and it shall be accepted as truth")

The irony is that it was not required at all (the lies). The machines would have sold in good numbers by its own merit.



Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
Ram Sir - I was talking about legal recourse - for the the very "lies" fact! and subsequent incompetence/callous attitude by some dealers across cities.

1)They knew all along that the specs on the site and the specs the Indian customers were sold are different
2) They kept quiet about it - considered Indian customer an idiot?
3) One of the customers had to detect the lie.
4) No swift action by TI or T-UK in terms of communication/action
5) Even now its like a real estate deal - Come, lets discuss types?
Shubz is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 18:13   #438
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,748
Thanked: 7,466 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Yeah even I wonder, nobody has gone legal against them yet as this has been going on for a while now? (this is not to instigate anyone against the brand)

In other economies (the developed one's) - I don't think anyone would wait for what solution the company would offer, they'd be all over the company with tonnes of law suits/compensation claims etc.
Shubz we are in discussions and like Ram mentioned above, taking legal would be the last option. Once you take that route there would be no turning back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
The irony is that it was not required at all (the lies). The machines would have sold in good numbers by its own merit.
Rest of the range yes, Street Triple would have been hit by 30-50% lesser sales. I know atleast 10 people now who would have picked Z800 if they knew this was a sub 100 bhp bike.

Very extreme and genuine emotions coming from some Striple owners!

EDIT: Saw the second post, don't rub it in buddy

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th December 2014 at 18:14.
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 18:20   #439
Senior - BHPian
 
man_of_steel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: BLR/TVM
Posts: 1,181
Thanked: 1,055 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
.. The machines would have sold in good numbers by its own merit.
But only at a much lower price tag!

Last edited by man_of_steel : 8th December 2014 at 18:22.
man_of_steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 19:04   #440
BHPian
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 238
Thanked: 542 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by man_of_steel View Post
But only at a much lower price tag!
+1

I'm sure the Stripple is a great bike to ride; but so would be the Ninja 650!
Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 20:33   #441
Senior - BHPian
 
naveenroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,319
Thanked: 694 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Guys, just my 2 bits.

Why don't you sign up or if you already are members of "foreign" biking forums, post up about this topic? Especially like ADVRiders etc - there are loads of true biking enthusiasts there and perhaps it can sting Triumph like no other? I mean, can you imagine if something like this had happened anywhere in the West? There would have been a huge hue and cry and lawsuits and what nots.
naveenroy is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 22:12   #442
BHPian
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 238
Thanked: 542 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
Guys, just my 2 bits.

Why don't you sign up or if you already are members of "foreign" biking forums, post up about this topic? Especially like ADVRiders etc - there are loads of true biking enthusiasts there and perhaps it can sting Triumph like no other? I mean, can you imagine if something like this had happened anywhere in the West? There would have been a huge hue and cry and lawsuits and what nots.
You might want to read the reaction on Triumphrat. Quite typical of what I would have expected.

You will not find much empathy for a Third world country that should be just glad it's got Triumph launching in India. Instead of complaining we should be coming down on our knees and bowing to the motoring giant with engineering brilliance.

A few might empathise and offer support but no media giant will forego their free rides to support a 100 bikers in India. Just my 2 cents.
Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 22:30   #443
BHPian
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 747
Thanked: 920 Times
Default 106PS Street Triple can't meet sound emission norms?

In a discussion with Triumph dealer and Street Triple owner, it was revealed that the reason for selling (only) the detuned 85PS ST3 variant is that the 106PS variant, which is the only state of tune the Street Triple R and RX are sold in, will not pass Indian noise emission norms. So that ST3R will likely never be sold here at all. The Daytona has a different exhaust system and doesn't breach the sound level limits.

It was apparent from day 1 that the two have different pipes, there being a coolant container on the ST3 where the Daytona has the (bigger) cat-con section under the engine. However, it is surprising the ST3R can't meet the sound emission limit, given the 20 less horses it has to make. The ST3 lacks the exhaust valve that the Daytona has, perhaps that might be a factor.

I hope someone with contacts in ARAI can verify this tid-bit.

EDIT and somewhat OT: There was a Daytona with Arrow slip on with the db-killer removed, enrolled for the loudest bike contest (!) at the India Superbike Festival , 2014. No surprises , it didn't win, being among the quietest of the bikes, there being hardly any stock bikes. An Arrow-equipped Bonnie T100 was louder. The loudest, and by huge margin, was an RSV4. Needless to say, Japanese bikes are among the quietest with stock exhausts, the Italians the loudest.

Last edited by Ricci : 8th December 2014 at 22:39.
Ricci is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 14:11   #444
Team-BHP Support
 
mobike008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10,738
Thanked: 7,928 Times
Default Re: 106PS Street Triple can't meet sound emission norms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
An Arrow-equipped Bonnie T100 was louder. The loudest, and by huge margin, was an RSV4. Needless to say, Japanese bikes are among the quietest with stock exhausts, the Italians the loudest.
I suppose you mean the Bonneville SE and not T100 as T100 doesnt have an Arrow exhuast made for them. Yes, I used the Arrows 2X2 and without the baffles, it indeed gets quite loud

Have rode with an RSV4 with Arkapovic exhaust in our group a few times and Arrows 2X2 sound simply pales in comparison.

It has a manic howl thats hard to beat

Last edited by mobike008 : 9th December 2014 at 14:58. Reason: recalled the name of exhuast
mobike008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 15:47   #445
//M
Distinguished - BHPian
 
//M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 4,186
Thanked: 8,564 Times
Default Re: 106PS Street Triple can't meet sound emission norms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

EDIT and somewhat OT: There was a Daytona with Arrow slip on with the db-killer removed, enrolled for the loudest bike contest (!) at the India Superbike Festival , 2014. No surprises , it didn't win, being among the quietest of the bikes, there being hardly any stock bikes. An Arrow-equipped Bonnie T100 was louder. The loudest, and by huge margin, was an RSV4. Needless to say, Japanese bikes are among the quietest with stock exhausts, the Italians the loudest.
The yellow RSV4 at the Superbike Festival was a maniac indeed. With those loud pipes, it was really a crowd puller. Reminded me of the saying, "Loud Pipes, Save Lives".


Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I suppose you mean the Bonneville SE and not T100 as T100 doesnt have an Arrow exhuast made for them. Yes, I used the Arrows 2X2 and without the baffles, it indeed gets quite loud
I am not too sure if this can be done or not, but I remember seeing a Bonneville T100 with arrows at the India Bike Week Chai-Pakoda Ride recently.

Couple of pics of that bike, going by the spoke wheels I do not think it is a SE. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Attached Thumbnails
Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-10408582_10204192195077268_5855861317345754856_n.jpg  

Attached Images
 
//M is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 16:43   #446
Team-BHP Support
 
mobike008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10,738
Thanked: 7,928 Times
Default Re: 106PS Street Triple can't meet sound emission norms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M View Post
Couple of pics of that bike, going by the spoke wheels I do not think it is a SE. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thats a good find. It "looks" like a T100 going by seat design and also spoke wheels

But, Iam quite sure that there are no Arrow products in offer for a Bonneville T100 in India especially the 2X2 pipes.

Iam guessing those pipes were force fitted to a T100 as experimentation basis

Could I be wrong?
mobike008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 17:02   #447
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,748
Thanked: 7,466 Times
Default Re: 106PS Street Triple can't meet sound emission norms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
In a discussion with Triumph dealer and Street Triple owner, it was revealed that the reason for selling (only) the detuned 85PS ST3 variant is that the 106PS variant, which is the only state of tune the Street Triple R and RX are sold in, will not pass Indian noise emission norms. So that ST3R will likely never be sold here at all. The Daytona has a different exhaust system and doesn't breach the sound level limits.
This got me thinking. Ricci you are the man, so this means the exhaust is different. So i started hunting for pics of the exhaust to figure out where i can find a part number. Yes usually it is engraved somewhere or the other. Silencer can was pretty easy, checked some images from net and went and checked on the bike and volaa.. rather oh shoot! it is brazilian spec!! number ending 53!!!
Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-ohcrap.jpg


By this time depression has struck and was looking at a lakh rupee worth of parts if i have to do this mod on my own! Fellow street owner Sharath was the only one who had some faith header would be the same. So i went digging in further, my office folks wondering what the madness this guy is upto kneeling around the bike, and i could find nothing underneath.
Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-scratch.jpg

Was losing hope and then i realized how we usually overlook the obvious, in this case the obvious place to search for part number. Yup it should be behind something so that it wont wear off and so i started peeking behind heat shield and tadaaaaaaaaaaa... the magic number ending with 30!
Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!-tadaaaa.jpg

So now one more step closer to finding a solution... that is all the update folks.

Last edited by Jaggu : 9th December 2014 at 17:04.
Jaggu is online now   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 17:33   #448
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2
Thanked: 3 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Didn't understand much....Sorry Jaggu (you know it's that time of the day) can you please clarify further?
motor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 17:58   #449
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 51
Thanked: 33 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Awesome work Jaggu!!! This really helps me solve the mystery why I am able to keep pace with Daytona’s and why she reaches those very high KMPH speeds.

I did feel the difference when I switched from stock to Arrow!!! This clearly explains why.
DipantS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 18:27   #450
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,748
Thanked: 7,466 Times
Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by motor View Post
Didn't understand much....Sorry Jaggu (you know it's that time of the day) can you please clarify further?
Good to see you here motor! How is the Z800

What i meant - The whole silencer is not restricted as we originally thought, infact the major difference is in the silencer box (end can) which is more of a sound restriction. Header is fortunately UK spec, unrestricted.

Which inturn is a very good news for us Indian Street owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DipantS View Post
Awesome work Jaggu!!! This really helps me solve the mystery why I am able to keep pace with Daytona’s and why she reaches those very high KMPH speeds.

I did feel the difference when I switched from stock to Arrow!!! This clearly explains why.
Bang on! Open the air intake out and you are all set to do some power wheelies
Jaggu is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold! mobike008 Superbikes & Imports 1046 27th June 2017 02:44
Triumph Bikes gendarmee Vintage Cars & Classics in India 48 24th September 2014 22:56
Fake Rockford Fosgate Speakers being sold in market blueraven316 In-Car Entertainment 19 13th May 2007 02:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:42.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks