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Old 16th December 2014, 09:20   #526
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Mod note: Post EDITED to keep the discussion on and the extreme emotions off. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
I don't understand that attitude, or the purpose of sharing such thoughts in a public forum.
I happen to know what is being offered. I happen to think that it is reasonable.

Jaggu knows the offer. He seems to think that is is reasonable.

Cheers

Ride Safe.

Last edited by GTO : 16th December 2014 at 13:52. Reason: STRICTLY no public discussion on Mod activities
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Old 16th December 2014, 09:58   #527
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
Anyways, the attempt to include international bikers by posting on ADVrider has been a giant failure. That place is so unbelievably racist and useless! Team-BHP is the first forum that I'm active on, so I guess you guys have spoiled me You can see the ADVrider thread here.
I'd started the thread there. Just wanted this mentioned somewhere in outside forums as well. Anyways...
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Old 16th December 2014, 10:19   #528
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
As far as the recent comments made by fellow TBhian trivializing the issue are concerned, I find them to be mechanical and unfair. Any motorcycle purchase, no matter how small the amount, has an emotional side attached to it, apart from the obvious economic one. You can't just say "Oh this company cheated you and is now ready to do these little things to make it all go away, so you should totally accept that without a single squeal of opposition". I don't understand that attitude, or the purpose of sharing such thoughts in a public forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
I happen to know what is being offered. I happen to think that it is reasonable.

Jaggu knows the offer. He seems to think that is is reasonable.
Guys relax. All sides are entitled to their opinions as far as it is kept within decent code of conduct Infact within BLR Street owners group there are about 2 or 3 people whom i know have not accepted the offer. Further to this the larger group of "BRAT's" have a very different point of view to what we have gone ahead and committed to. We were open with them and discussed our thought process before signing up. We agreed to disagree in peace.

At the end of the day, we all are friends and are here to enjoy our passion for automobiles including bikes.

So request all to keep it logical and not get overly emotional and into personal attacks. That is how a thread gets trivialized. As a 3rd party i feel both gthang and RiderZone have very valid and varied viewpoints. Heck all these points helped me negotiate a deal!! at the end of the day.

Last edited by GTO : 16th December 2014 at 13:52. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 16th December 2014, 10:28   #529
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

gthang mate the above comments are really uncalled for. I have read your posts but didn't understand what you want to bring out of this discussion. It is all black and white mate. Triumph cheated their customers as simple as that. They didn't bother so far to render a public apology, tell me something had it not been found out by someone that they are selling us "detuned" motorcycles instead of Euro Spec ones, would Triumph come out proactively and tell their customers that the version they are selling is a Brazilian, Japanese or whatever hell detuned spec? They didn't do it for a year. Excuse me mate this is a multinational motorcycle company and not some la la company for crying out loud. Are they governed by some corporate ethics to do business, looking at their current fiasco I dont think so!

The true WHP cannot be experienced by many riders but lying about the specs by calling a 79 odd BHP motorcycle a 106 odd BHP motorcycle is day light robbery, cheating and a case of fraud. Why should I as an owner or a potential buyer be kept in dark or shown something that is not really what it is? I am plonking in my hard earned money close to 10 lakhs on a euro spec motorcycle only to find out later that it is a detuned version and the company didn't bother to inform me. I will first blame Triumph and then the dealers, Triumph should know India is now one of the fastest growing market for automobiles and motorcycles. They cannot take us for granted our buying force is to reckon with that's why you see so many foreign manufacturers setting their foot in India. I was considering the Bonneville T100 before buying my current ride (RE Thunderbird 500) but decided against it as I wanted the bigger Triumph Tiger 1200 XC. I dread if I would have bought the Bonneville and came to know that it is sapped of 7 odd horses I would have felt cheated. True that BHP does not matter to some people but for some of us paying close to those 7 to 10 lakhs it is not a joke, we want every account of our hard earned money. I am not considering the Triumph Tiger 1200 XC anymore as no one knows what rabbit Triumph will pull out of its hat!. I said this earlier and will say it again, "Buying such motorcycles is the hearts' decision and If anyone messes with the heart, they lose the trust, respect and love."

Last edited by GTO : 16th December 2014 at 13:52. Reason: Deleting the part removed from the original quote. Thanks
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Old 16th December 2014, 10:52   #530
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Guys relax.

Heck all these points helped me negotiate a deal!! at the end of the day.
Thanks.

In your discussion with Triumph, was it revealed to you the when/how/why this Street Triple blunder came around?

Might clear some doubts to whether Triumph as a company chose to do it, or if (as I believe), was an error by omission?

To navin_v8,

My focus has never been to bash or praise Triumph, though I tend to give benefit of doubt to Triumph, knowing the difficulties involved in setting up shop in India.

I was only pointing to the fact that what Triumph is offering in return is mechanically nor monetarily not that bad.

I cannot comment on what apology they give will suffice all customers, and I doubt anyone can. Personally, I feel none required, again based on the assumption that this was human error. This is my opinion. I am not shoving it down anyone's throat. I am only stating it and defending my reasoning.

Does that mean that I am no longer bringing anything to the discussion and should be censored?

BTW, The Bonneville is NOT detuned.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
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Old 16th December 2014, 11:25   #531
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Might clear some doubts to whether Triumph as a company chose to do it, or if (as I believe), was an error by omission?

To navin_v8,

My focus has never been to bash or praise Triumph, though I tend to give benefit of doubt to Triumph, knowing the difficulties involved in setting up shop in India.

I was only pointing to the fact that what Triumph is offering in return is mechanically nor monetarily not that bad.
BTW, The Bonneville is NOT detuned.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
Mate I dont want to stretch this, but you should seriously think about those owners and the trauma they are facing after spending those hard earned multiple lakhs of rupees. I am not bashing Triumph but I am appalled to know that in this age of modern communication and robust mechanism (in a corporate setup) for finding out errors mechanical or human, Triumph didn't bother to check their website, brochures, manuals, etc OR who knows they didn't even bother to check their bikes until someone came knocking on their door. I am considering this even after giving Triumph a benefit of doubt, given that they are already one year in operation in India. Alright now that everyone including Triumph has come to know what have they done so far? Nothing!

Mate you need to read the fine print, check out these links where it says Bonneville Indian Spec is 61 PS compared to UK spec of 69 PS. Not only Bonneville but all the bikes are detuned versions. I have no issues buying a detuned version but I should be told first hand what I am paying for, rather than to be kept in the dark.

Refer these links for more information:
http://www.rushlane.com/triumph-bonn...-12137074.html

http://www.shifting-gears.com/2014/1...ned-for-india/

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/306...a-detuned.html

and here's Triumph India website which lists all three variants of Bonneville having 61 PS as against 68-69 PS as listed before the fiasco.

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/bik...le-t100#engine

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/bik...neville#engine

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/bik...hruxton#engine

Hope this helps.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 16th December 2014 at 11:27.
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Old 16th December 2014, 12:00   #532
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Adding data from xbhp:
Quote:
My friend's Street Triple has been upgraded to 106 PS! Arrow exhaust and mapping. I think he has to pay some money[~10k] for the parts and he gets a 106PS bike.
In addition, the company has given him gift coupons of 1.5 lakhs! In which he can buy accessories from Triumph.
More info on the current deals. Only Street owners gets the deal. Cheating one of 6-7 bhp is ok ( Bonnie) or Bonnie wasnt detuned but was tested to be 61bhp by Arai (the discussion about this now make sense).

Quote:
There are many offers to the owners:
1-Sell the bike to Triumph and get back money.

2-Take 1.5 Lakhs worth accessories and pay ~10k for making it 106PS. The cost of Arrow exhaust and maps will be included in this sum. Which I was told will be ~60k. Sign an indemnity form to accept the modifications.

3-Upgrade the bike to 106 PS. [I think without the money back.] Sign an indemnity form to accept the modifications. Which are out of ARAI rules.

The parts that will be changed are:

Airbox ducts,
Vacuum pipe [where is that?],
Arrow mapping on the ecu,
Arrow exhaust.
I also remember him saying that the engine will NOT be opened in any case.

This will make the bike louder and upto European specifications. I hope I did not miss any info.
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Old 16th December 2014, 12:08   #533
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Adding data from xbhp:

I think that this is a pretty justifiable move by Triumph, the option with the 1.5 lakh rupee voucher and arrow exhausts for 10k.. Damn, you'd never get a discount like this ever.
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Old 16th December 2014, 12:53   #534
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
1-Sell the bike to Triumph and get back money.
If i was in this mess, my preferred option will be this. I have been following this thread from beginning and triumph has really lost all its credibility. People who have been saying that its been a honest mistake, i completely disagree. You can not expect such blunder from a brand like Triumph.

Have they given any statement how this mess happened ? who is responsible for this ?
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Old 16th December 2014, 12:53   #535
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Thanks.

In your discussion with Triumph, was it revealed to you the when/how/why this Street Triple blunder came around?
Not in detail, but i could gather that it has lots to do with internal miscommunication and maybe a honest goof up Which they try to correct resulting in a bigger issue across range, messed up big time by bad communication!


Quote:
BTW, The Bonneville is NOT detuned..
Yes ^ More than that Striple is a different model altogether compared to that sold in UK, bonnie and rest are same model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Mate you need to read the fine print, check out these links where it says Bonneville Indian Spec is 61 PS compared to UK spec of 69 PS. Not only Bonneville but all the bikes are detuned versions. I have no issues buying a detuned version but I should be told first hand what I am paying for, rather than to be kept in the dark.

Refer these links for more information:
http://www.rushlane.com/triumph-bonn...-12137074.html

http://www.shifting-gears.com/2014/1...ned-for-india/

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/306...a-detuned.html

and here's Triumph India website which lists all three variants of Bonneville having 61 PS as against 68-69 PS as listed before the fiasco.

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/bik...le-t100#engine

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/bik...neville#engine

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/bik...hruxton#engine

Hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
More info on the current deals. Only Street owners gets the deal. Cheating one of 6-7 bhp is ok ( Bonnie) or Bonnie wasnt detuned but was tested to be 61bhp by Arai (the discussion about this now make sense).
If you go with technical explanation the detune angle can be explained in 5 minutes. Only case anyone anywhere has is and was, why was the correct figure not mentioned upfront? ie why was it changed midway?

My guess again because of Striple all the other figures also were changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by createrkid View Post
I think that this is a pretty justifiable move by Triumph, the option with the 1.5 lakh rupee voucher and arrow exhausts for 10k.. Damn, you'd never get a discount like this ever.
Yup to many it is, few others not.

How many vehicles has manufacturer rated power (website/manual) corresponding to the ARAI? Any info?

EDIT: In short my take now, i may be wrong or gullible as some might term lolz:

- Did Triumph mislead/cheat customers? Yes
- Was it deliberate to start with? No
- Are they owning up? Partially Yes
- Are they making effort to rectify the situation? Yes
- Is it a good one? Ok one, neither good nor bad.
- Could the issue be handled better? Yes!
- Will it affect brand image? Yes
- Is it the end of the brand? No

Last edited by Jaggu : 16th December 2014 at 13:07.
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Old 16th December 2014, 12:59   #536
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
How many vehicles has manufacturer rated power (website/manual) corresponding to the ARAI? Any info?
Quoting what GTO posted @http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superbikes-imports/150223-harley-davidson-street-750-official-review.html

That's how you tackle an issue which could have gone nastly. Shows commitment to owners/prospective owners/ India.

Quote:
Hi,

Many thanks for the quick response and posting my concerns on Team BHP.
Harley India finally heard our complaints and resolved the matter by replacing the bike with a brand new Street 750. They even offered if we wanted to upgrade but we refrained to upgrade and settled for the same bike again.

Hope this time it fulfills our long cherished dream without any hiccups, otherwise you guys are always there to help us out like the way you did it this time.

Many thanks from the bottom of my heart.
And keep up the good work.

Best regards

Rohit Sharma
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Old 16th December 2014, 13:12   #537
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Quoting what GTO posted @http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superbikes-imports/150223-harley-davidson-street-750-official-review.html

That's how you tackle an issue which could have gone nastly. Shows commitment to owners/prospective owners/ India.
I agree, where or why do you think i am not? It (the whole issue) could have been handled much much better.

These are premium bikes bought by customers with big expectation and bigger egos, what the heck was Triumph India thinking??
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Old 16th December 2014, 13:25   #538
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I agree, where or why do you think i am not? It (the whole issue) could have been handled much much better.

These are premium bikes bought by customers with big expectation and bigger egos, what the heck was Triumph India thinking??
And to top it all, they still haven't got an official announcement/apology out have they? Won't they have done it if this was any European country or in the US?
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Old 16th December 2014, 13:35   #539
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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And to top it all, they still haven't got an official announcement/apology out have they? Won't they have done it if this was any European country or in the US?
Nope as far as i know, they have:

- put a statement clarifying the situation, online.
- sent emails to individual customers, again clarifying what happened.
- even the issue resolution confirmation letter, tries to clarify and reinforce their commitment to clean the mess.

But no apology, let me take a guess.

Quote:
a regretful acknowledgement of an offence or failure.
Apology means acceptance of a mistake which in turn means liability. Trust me they will give clarification and make corrections, apology would be the last thing they would give out, esp with the way in which things are in our legal system.
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Old 16th December 2014, 15:19   #540
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Two things here.
1. Issuing an open acknowledgement/apology from Triumph
- Ideally, doing this is the right thing to do, but as Jaggu pointed out, there may be some constraints on their side as well. Is this going to help the existing customers ? I guess it may not be that much. Is this going to improve the trust on the brand? Definitely Yes.

2. Showing concern for the existing customers and for the new customers who made the advance payment.
- In my opinion, this particular point is far more important than the first point quoted above. Already hearing that the existing customers are approached for some sort of compensation/offers. It is up to the individual to decide whether the offer is good or not. So I am not even talking about it.
What I would like to hear is - what was their initial response to the individual owners once the issue became public ? I understand it was a goof-up, but what was their reaction after that ? Was Triumph pro-active in approaching the existing owners ? Or was there an attempt (initially) to hide behind ? At least they are now talking with the owners, but was that forced upon them since they found no other escape route ? Or was that due to the extreme concern they had for the existing customers/owners ? Seeing some of the earlier posts indicate about their dishonesty in this regard as well (remember - I am not even talking about their initial goof up), but still I may be wrong in assuming that way. As everyone points out, they lost the trust, but I want the existing owners of STriple to get the best offer and feel completely satisfied. I wish the existing owners good luck and success in getting a good deal.
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