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Old 17th December 2014, 16:15   #571
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There seems to be a mixed opinion on this thread about the bonnie detune. Has it or has it not been detuned. If yes then HOW has the detune been achieved?
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Old 17th December 2014, 16:45   #572
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by harsha.muvva View Post
Z800 is a CBU, so I think ARAI doesnt/need not test it.

However even I am curious to see ARAI certificates of other CKD's like ninja300,650,250..etc.Because their advertisied specs here are similar to that of international models.
Yes Z800 is CBU and hence i have not seen ARAI certificate when i bought it.

I recall seeing an arai certificate for Ninja 650 and power figure was 71 or 71.5 IMO.
So it was very close to international figure.

I doubt Bonnie being full UK spec (including fuel map) since loosing 7 or 8 PS just because of fuel looks doubtful. My guess would be triumph have remapped Bonnie/Speed/ Daytona considering our fuel quality issues but hardware remains same (unlike street triple).

Some folks may say that Ninja's (300, 650) have lower compression ratio and hence their arai power figures are close to intl figures when 91RON is used. This may appear true but again one or two bhp sounds reasonable but 8 is too much.

EDIT: I just recalled that my scooty zest has 8PS power. Triumph must think of compensating bonnie/speed/daytona owners instead of blaming arai test methods because i did not get scooty for free. Hope you get my point.

Last edited by djay99 : 17th December 2014 at 16:50.
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Old 17th December 2014, 17:28   #573
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by argchoff View Post
There seems to be a mixed opinion on this thread about the bonnie detune. Has it or has it not been detuned. If yes then HOW has the detune been achieved?
It would be running a slightly conservative map which keeps timing on the safe side, this will help to build a buffer for any bad fuel issues. My guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
Yes Z800 is CBU and hence i have not seen ARAI certificate when i bought it.
========
This may appear true but again one or two bhp sounds reasonable but 8 is too much.

EDIT: I just recalled that my scooty zest has 8PS power. Triumph must think of compensating bonnie/speed/daytona owners instead of blaming arai test methods because i did not get scooty for free. Hope you get my point.
I went through a whole host of ARAI certificate and compared with websites, most of the japs do present ARAI figures, some in KW itself. Europe and English off by couple of ps here and there. There is no consistent drop like that we see in Triumph model. So i feel a slightly conservative map is used across models, which is a good thing technically.

Now if this is the case, it can be remapped but will it pass Indian CMVR regulations or will it survive our extreme weather situations across the country? Only Triumph can tell. Because of this other models might not stand a chance wrt compensation, since the hardware is same.

Only valid case in hand is TI sold initially mentioning X ps which was later changed to Y and should give explanation why that route was taken. I personally would not tread into technicalities beyond this.
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Old 17th December 2014, 17:30   #574
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
I recall seeing an arai certificate for Ninja 650 and power figure was 71 or 71.5 IMO.
So it was very close to international figure.

...

EDIT: I just recalled that my scooty zest has 8PS power. Triumph must think of compensating bonnie/speed/daytona owners instead of blaming arai test methods because i did not get scooty for free. Hope you get my point.
+1

When I was told by the dealership that Bonneville owners will not get a 'deal' like the Stripple owners the analogy I drew was that it seems in a multi crore chit fund scam, those who were cheated of 5 lacs or above were to be compensated. Someone who lost only 50,000 didn't deserve it. Even if that 50,000 meant a lifetime of saving.

68bhp is still a lie. And a lie should not be accorded a grade. It's pretty black and white. Did they or did they not misrepresent the Bonnie numbers. The answer is they did.

Btw, The scooty comparison is hilarious!
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Old 18th December 2014, 13:53   #575
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
+1

When I was told by the dealership that Bonneville owners will not get a 'deal' like the Stripple owners the analogy I drew was that it seems in a multi crore chit fund scam, those who were cheated of 5 lacs or above were to be compensated. Someone who lost only 50,000 didn't deserve it. Even if that 50,000 meant a lifetime of saving.

68bhp is still a lie. And a lie should not be accorded a grade. It's pretty black and white. Did they or did they not misrepresent the Bonnie numbers. The answer is they did.

Btw, The scooty comparison is hilarious!
Its easier to fix a unhappy Bonnie owner; give arrows which cost 55k!
Looks like Bonnie owners are happy with what they got.
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Old 18th December 2014, 17:03   #576
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Its easier to fix a unhappy Bonnie owner; give arrows which cost 55k!
Looks like Bonnie owners are happy with what they got.
I upgraded to the high flow silencers much before this detune fiasco emerged. Though the bike pulls much better lower down the rpm range she has been running too rich with sometimes fuel smell evident. Now if Triumph has used restricted airbox and exhaust in stock form to detune the engine it might explain why the bike is running rich. Ie i have taken the restricted exhaust out of the equation, tuned the ecu for the hfs BUT because the airbox is a restricted one, the bike has been running rich? Any engineering experts pls advise if my reasoning is correct?
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Old 18th December 2014, 20:14   #577
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Considering I've started my Tbhp journey on this thread posting my trials and triubulations with Triumph it's only appropriate that I post here first that I picked up my Bonneville today. No discounts, no deals, just metal, chrome and 2 beautiful firing cylinders.

After a lot of thought and evaluation I decided the heart will not give up. Needless to say, love the Bonneville, and still dissapointed with Triumph. I hope and pray the Triumph owners get their due and will continue to voice my support for them.
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Old 18th December 2014, 21:12   #578
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
Considering I've started my Tbhp journey on this thread posting my trials and triubulations with Triumph it's only appropriate that I post here first that I picked up my Bonneville today. No discounts, no deals, just metal, chrome and 2 beautiful firing cylinders.
Welcome to the club. There is no reason you would be disappointed with it.

Yes the dealings from TI on the detune issue was shoddy to say the least. But the service from dealers have been quiet good. Will send you a PM about Delhi Dealership

Start a thread or post on the Bonnie thread (Black Bruiser)

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 19th December 2014, 08:55   #579
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Welcome to the club. There is no reason you would be disappointed with it.

Yes the dealings from TI on the detune issue was shoddy to say the least. But the service from dealers have been quiet good. Will send you a PM about Delhi Dealership

Start a thread or post on the Bonnie thread (Black Bruiser)

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
Thanks, Ram. I look forward to this ownership experience. Will start a thread once i have enough pictures in the bag. Will wait for your pm.

Cheers,
Sting
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Old 21st December 2014, 19:57   #580
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

So far no one among the St3 owners willing to take the legal route ?

I strongly doubt Triumph would escape any law suit in Europe/US if they did such a thing there. Many companies have written mission statements , corporate responsibilities and ethics , I suppose Triumph does too. Perhaps they should revisit their own company profile and relevant pages concerning ethics. Even if this was a genuine careless mistake no one noticed until a year later (so material is not reviewed before release ? ), they should still own up, clarify they goofed up and apologize in no uncertain terms, with a full up buyback offer like Yamaha did, rather than quietly make clandestine deals with owners which leave their bikes illegal, and tell them to shut their gob.

Maybe costly now, but better in the long run.

@Jaggu - have you got a rough count of St3 owners and what they've chosen from the offered options ? I suppose there'll be quite a few who don't even know about the whole model variant difference.

OT: how is your ST3 coming along, you haven't started a thread yet as far as I know.
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Old 22nd December 2014, 20:41   #581
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Here's a video from PD putting ER-6N, Z800 and STR(w/ and w/o Arrow) in a 0-100 run.


Spoiler :


For those who can't watch, stock STR is slower than Z. With Arrow, it is as quick as Z.
However, I still think that the Z will have an upper hand past 100.

Last edited by theredliner : 22nd December 2014 at 20:42.
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Old 23rd December 2014, 09:56   #582
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Here's a video from PD putting ER-6N, Z800 and STR(w/ and w/o Arrow) in a 0-100 run.

For those who can't watch, stock STR is slower than Z. With Arrow, it is as quick as Z. However, I still think that the Z will have an upper hand past 100.
More importantly, a stock Striple is only .1 sec faster than ER-6N to 100kmph, but .1 sec slower than ER-6N to 60kmph. Note, the Striple with Arrows does not have the UK spec air transition box.
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Old 23rd December 2014, 12:50   #583
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
@Jaggu - have you got a rough count of St3 owners and what they've chosen from the offered options ? I suppose there'll be quite a few who don't even know about the whole model variant difference.
India estimated owners 80-100?

BLR around 25 out of which 12-14 i know have taken one of the options offered by BLR dealers, including one person who is selling his bike and upgrading to Tiger.

Quote:
OT: how is your ST3 coming along, you haven't started a thread yet as far as I know.
Was about to, then this fiasco started. I am enjoying the bike in its daily commute to office, have done one out of town trip also while on running-in. Touched 17xx kms on odo last week

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
For those who can't watch, stock STR is slower than Z. With Arrow, it is as quick as Z.
However, I still think that the Z will have an upper hand past 100.
Can't wait to see after the airbox transition is opened up

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Note, the Striple with Arrows does not have the UK spec air transition box.
Echatly!
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Old 23rd December 2014, 17:47   #584
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

I understand Striple owners were given 3 options a while back. I was taking a look at them today and couldn't figure out the difference between option 2 and 3. Anybody has a clue? It looks like both of them do the same thing, but option 2 costs 10,000 bucks.

1-Sell the bike to Triumph and get back money.

2-Take 1.5 Lakhs worth accessories and pay ~10k for making it 106PS. The cost of Arrow exhaust and maps will be included in this sum. Which I was told will be ~60k. Sign an indemnity form to accept the modifications.

3-Upgrade the bike to 106 PS. [I think without the money back.] Sign an indemnity form to accept the modifications. Which are out of ARAI rules.

The parts that will be changed are:

Airbox ducts,
Vacuum pipe [where is that?],
Arrow mapping on the ecu,
Arrow exhaust.
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Old 23rd December 2014, 18:08   #585
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Default Re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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I
1-Sell the bike to Triumph and get back money.

2-Take 1.5 Lakhs worth accessories and pay ~10k for making it 106PS. The cost of Arrow exhaust and maps will be included in this sum. Which I was told will be ~60k. Sign an indemnity form to accept the modifications.

3-Upgrade the bike to 106 PS. [I think without the money back.] Sign an indemnity form to accept the modifications. Which are out of ARAI rules.

The parts that will be changed are:

Airbox ducts,
Vacuum pipe [where is that?],
Arrow mapping on the ecu,
Arrow exhaust.
As far as i know it is.

1- Get depreciated price, 2% per month and minus insurance and road tax

2- 1 lakh cash OR 1.5 Lakh accessories/ EDIT: store voucher. Do what you want with it.

3- Upgrade to 106 and sign indemnity.

Vacuum pipe is out of vacuum as i understand ^^

Last edited by Jaggu : 23rd December 2014 at 18:13.
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