Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes > Superbikes & Imports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th November 2014, 10:40   #61
BHPian
 
TheCelestial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 159
Thanked: 162 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
However, i found the Striple to be more nimble and with quite a broad power range. Not sure how the detune impacts the drivability of the bike.

Yes, ST with 79BHP should still be quick, but then i paid for a 100+BHP bike, maybe its all just a psychological consideration.
My observation was the exact opposite. While the ST was quick it didnt have the same spread of power that Z800 has. You should notice this a lot in heavy traffic (I had (mis)fortune of experiencing this on my TD of the Striple).

Secondly, 79PS is not just psychological consideration. You will feel a huge difference in performance between whats 106 and whats 79 PS. Infact, when detuned to 79 PS , Triumph is killing the primary advantage that ST has over Z800 -> Power-to-weight.

But I am still to take this whole detuning thing seriously. I will wait until I get some kind of confirmation from Triumph management. This is already big news and I am surprised no one has come forward to offer an explanation. Striple is bound to be the most popular model in India (maybe after the Bonnie)
TheCelestial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 10:44   #62
BHPian
 
udainxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 179
Thanked: 69 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post

The Arrows exhaust for the Striple are just slip ons, so no remaps, etc, so that does not help either.
A_V_I
When i spoke to the execs at Keerthi, they mentioned a remap as part of the package.
udainxs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 10:45   #63
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 97
Thanked: 21 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCelestial View Post
But I am still to take this whole detuning thing seriously. I will wait until I get some kind of confirmation from Triumph management. This is already big news and I am surprised no one has come forward to offer an explanation. Striple is bound to be the most popular model in India (maybe after the Bonnie)
I just got in touch with my contact at the Triumph Dealer in Pune and as per him, the bike allocated to me is in the original state of tune, i.e, 106BHP. The dealer has not received any official notification from Triumph on the new state of tune.

I am planning to take my bike for a dyno run once am done with the run-in, because there is really no other way to be sure at this point in time.
A_v_i is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 10:59   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
djay99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,456
Thanked: 491 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
Yes, ST with 79BHP should still be quick, but then i paid for a 100+BHP bike, maybe its all just a psychological consideration.
If you have paid for 100BHP bike then you should get a 100BHP bike.

Quote:
Interestingly, i find myself in a catch-22 situation. If my bike comes with 106BHP and subsequent ones are detuned, I would still worry about why and if my engine is gonna blow-up under me
You should be happy if you get 106BHP bike. Make sure you buy fuel from reputed pump (91RON) and fill her with 97 RON when ever possible. In Europe, 95 RON is commonly available. Have not heard of any engine issues there.

Challenge in india is not just bad quality fuel. I have heard of cases where kerosene is mixed in petrol
These bikes were never designed to run on kerosene mixed petrol.
Quote:
The Arrows exhaust for the Striple are just slip ons, so no remaps, etc, so that does not help either.
If you buy Arrows from triumph then you will get a different map and they charge you a small amount for remap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCelestial View Post
My observation was the exact opposite. While the ST was quick it didnt have the same spread of power that Z800 has. You should notice this a lot in heavy traffic (I had (mis)fortune of experiencing this on my TD of the Striple).
@TheCelestial, I agree. Torque spread is very good on Z800. Recently i was doing 35KMPH in 6th gear, i whack the throttle open and in a few seconds i see ton mark on the speedo.

Last edited by djay99 : 20th November 2014 at 11:01.
djay99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 11:08   #65
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 97
Thanked: 21 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by udainxs View Post
When i spoke to the execs at Keerthi, they mentioned a remap as part of the package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
If you buy Arrows from triumph then you will get a different map and they charge you a small amount for remap.
Thanks for the clarification guys. My understanding was that the remap was required for the Bonnie with Arrows exhaust, since that was a full system but Striple's one being just slip ons required no ECU changes.
A_v_i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 11:13   #66
BHPian
 
TheCelestial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 159
Thanked: 162 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
I just got in touch with my contact at the Triumph Dealer in Pune and as per him, the bike allocated to me is in the original state of tune, i.e, 106BHP. The dealer has not received any official notification from Triumph on the new state of tune.

I am planning to take my bike for a dyno run once am done with the run-in, because there is really no other way to be sure at this point in time.
A_v_i did he explicitly acknowledge the detuning being done and the why? If so, it doesnt make sense at all. Is there anything mechanically different in the new lot? If not, are they exposing the existing owners to the risk of damaging their engine?
TheCelestial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 11:17   #67
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 97
Thanked: 21 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCelestial View Post
A_v_i did he explicitly acknowledge the detuning being done and the why? If so, it doesnt make sense at all. Is there anything mechanically different in the new lot? If not, are they exposing the existing owners to the risk of damaging their engine?
Right, so i did push him for clarification, but as per him the dealer has received no notification for any changes in tune, either for existing or new bikes.
A_v_i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 11:32   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Guys, reducing almost 30 bhp on a bike that is making just over a hundred, is not a small "detune." It is a significant re-engineering. I would be very surprised if the only change is maps.

Please look at it this way. When you put on an after market exhaust AND performance air filter AND a new ECU map on these performance bikes, how much power do you really increase? How much improvement at the top end? I'm guessing under 10 BHP (at crank) and under 10-15 kmph. The changes are mainly felt in the mid range.

Here we are talking nearly 30 bhp (to put it in perspective - you're deleting an entire performance 200-250 cc bike from that motor)! I'm looking at cams, valves, head flow, throttle body, injectors, maybe even piston crown. I'm looking at a significant reduction in compression. At the very least.

Last edited by ebonho : 20th November 2014 at 11:34.
ebonho is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 12:55   #69
Distinguished - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,661
Thanked: 1,389 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by udainxs View Post
Thanks! Even peak torque is down by 11nm and at 1300rpm less! The engines don't seem as rev happy as before! I wonder if the rev limiter has been set lower too!
They cant have 4 typos right? Bhp/rpm/Nm/bhp. So they have detuned it.

We shall expect a new press release of new Triumphs soon then else a webmaster ( and his company) is gonna be out of business for good.
jkdas is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 13:06   #70
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chennai
Posts: 80
Thanked: 67 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

If the specs available in the official are true (Official sites are supposed to have accurate information) shouldn't they correct the price as well?

Especially for Street Triple, a 25% drop in power should reflect in a corresponding price drop as well.

Don't understand why a premium brand like Triumph which was gaining good reputation by word-of-mouth is now working towards loosing the same by being non-communicative on this issue.
jvm_1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 13:09   #71
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 97
Thanked: 21 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
They cant have 4 typos right? Bhp/rpm/Nm/bhp. So they have detuned it.

We shall expect a new press release of new Triumphs soon then else a webmaster ( and his company) is gonna be out of business for good.
Right, plus a mistake is unlikely given the changes for Striple, Bonnie and Daytona. The press release folks have still done a shoddy job, because the brochure in the introduction call out 106PS for Striple, but later under the Performance table mention 79PS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Guys, reducing almost 30 bhp on a bike that is making just over a hundred, is not a small "detune." It is a significant re-engineering. I would be very surprised if the only change is maps.
I agree completely. Only the Striple sees a 25% drop in power, whereas Bonnie and Daytona are closer to a 10% drop. Even if the detune is true of the newer bikes, i do not understand why the Striple sees such a significant drop
A_v_i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 13:10   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Can someone please list the on road prices, engine cubic capacity, bhp (past and current/rumored), and torque figures of the bikes from various manufacturers available in India currently to someone in the market for a similar bike with similar budget in hand (I'm guessing 600 to 900 cc, 5-6 to 9-10 lacs)?

Or would that be off topic to the discussion at hand?

I'm thinking N650, ER6N, Z800, Bonnie, Striple, Street 750, Iron, Superlow, Hyosung (sports and cruiser), Ducati Monster. Any others? Aprilia?

From all that I am reading, the 800 cc Kawasaki makes more sense than even the 650 cc one, leave alone the allegedly neutered Striple.

Last edited by ebonho : 20th November 2014 at 13:37.
ebonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 14:28   #73
BHPian
 
KhalDrogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Panjim
Posts: 92
Thanked: 46 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I'm thinking N650, ER6N, Z800, Bonnie, Striple, Street 750, Iron, Superlow, Hyosung (sports and cruiser), Ducati Monster. Any others? Aprilia?
Is the Monster 696 still on sale in India? Or has it been discontinued. Either way, what's the entry level Ducati currently on sale, and is the After Sales Support reliable?
KhalDrogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 14:36   #74
BHPian
 
udainxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 179
Thanked: 69 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KhalDrogo View Post
Is the Monster 696 still on sale in India? Or has it been discontinued. Either way, what's the entry level Ducati currently on sale, and is the After Sales Support reliable?
I believe Ducati is in the process of re-entering India. At present they have no dealerships that I am aware of

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
I agree completely. Only the Striple sees a 25% drop in power, whereas Bonnie and Daytona are closer to a 10% drop. Even if the detune is true of the newer bikes, i do not understand why the Striple sees such a significant drop
This is even more surprising since the Daytona and the Triple have essentially the same engine,as far as i know, albeit in a higher state of tune for the former.

Last edited by udainxs : 20th November 2014 at 14:41. Reason: MultiQuote required
udainxs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2014, 14:51   #75
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by udainxs View Post
This is even more surprising since the Daytona and the Triple have essentially the same engine,as far as i know, albeit in a higher state of tune for the former.
So is this a positioning exercise? Are they finding the Street Triple at 106 bhp eating into the sales of some of its more expensive stablemates?

So is this an exercise to prevent sales splitting within the same stable?

By pulling the Striple back to 79 bhp, it frees up the Daytona and Speed Triple. And by pulling the Bonneville back to its pre 1997 carbed output (61 bbhp) they've given some space to both these bikes as well. Not to mention the Bonnie and the Striple are very different bikes.

Problem with this theory is that Triumph now has bikes in multiples of 20 bhp increments - 60, 80, and 120.

But the 100 slot is now empty.

Could it be because there is no other competitor in that slot either (the Z800 at 115 bhp is in Daytona and Speed Triple territory more than full-power Striple territory anyways)?

Last edited by ebonho : 20th November 2014 at 15:10.
ebonho is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold! mobike008 Superbikes & Imports 1046 27th June 2017 02:44
Triumph Bikes gendarmee Vintage Cars & Classics in India 48 24th September 2014 22:56
Fake Rockford Fosgate Speakers being sold in market blueraven316 In-Car Entertainment 19 13th May 2007 02:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:40.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks