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Old 20th November 2014, 14:57   #76
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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So is this a positioning exercise? Are they finding the Street Triple at 106 bhp eating into the sales of some of its more expensive stablemates?

So is this an exercise to prevent sales splitting within the same stable?
While that sounds entirely plausible from the business aspect, tampering with the output of the Daytona doesn't quite fit in.

At 9.15 OTR Bangalore the triple was providing nearly as much pep as the Daytona (12.25 OTR Bangalore) , in a more street friendly package, in my opinion. While i considered the Triple, the Daytona never crossed my mind because I just never saw the point in the added investment. And I am sure Im not the only one
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:04   #77
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While that sounds entirely plausible from the business aspect, tampering with the output of the Daytona doesn't quite fit in.

At 9.15 OTR Bangalore the triple was providing nearly as much pep as the Daytona (12.25 OTR Bangalore) , in a more street friendly package, in my opinion. While i considered the Triple, the Daytona never crossed my mind because I just never saw the point in the added investment. And I am sure Im not the only one
So you're essentially strengthening my theory right? That at 106 bhp and 9 lacs it was eating potential Daytona sales of 126 bhp and 12 lacs (or 14 for the R).

So they have 7 lacs 60 bhp in the Bonneville and 9 lacs 80 bhp in the striple and 12-14 lacs 120 bhp in the Daytona.

That still leave a potential slot open - 10-11 lacs and around 100 bhp.

So is something going to come in there?
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:08   #78
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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I believe Ducati is in the process of re-entering India. At present they have no dealerships that I am aware of
There's a showroom in Goa that I pass daily. It used to have bikes on display, and a place where they could service/repair bikes. I haven't been inside in ages, but it doesn't look closed. No idea if they have bikes on display, or it's open just to service existing customers.
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:10   #79
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
So you're essentially strengthening my theory right? That at 106 bhp and 9 lacs it was eating potential Daytona sales of 126 bhp and 12 lacs (or 14 for the R).

So they have 7 lacs 60 bhp in the Bonneville and 9 lacs 80 bhp in the striple and 12-14 lacs 120 bhp in the Daytona.

That still leave a potential slot open - 10-11 lacs and around 100 bhp.

So is something going to come in there?
Yes, it does make sense, barring the detuned Daytona.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing the Triumph Scrambler in India, though it does not fit the 100bhp requirement . The Speedmaster would be a bit of a stretch for that space
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:10   #80
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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At 9.15 OTR Bangalore the triple was providing nearly as much pep as the Daytona (12.25 OTR Bangalore) , in a more street friendly package, in my opinion. While i considered the Triple, the Daytona never crossed my mind because I just never saw the point in the added investment. And I am sure Im not the only one
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So you're essentially strengthening my theory right? That at 106 bhp and 9 lacs it was eating potential Daytona sales of 126 bhp and 12 lacs (or 14 for the R).
Agreed. When i took test rides of the Triumph stable, i did check out the Daytona but never considered it seriously because outside a track i did not feel the performance difference reflected the added cost.

Had the power difference been close to 40BHP, where it seems to stand post the detune, i would definitely have taken a second look at the Daytona.
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:12   #81
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Yes, it does make sense, barring the detuned Daytona.
Well maybe there are fuel concerns because of which the detune got initiated, and Triumph used the opportunity to reposition the Striple
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:13   #82
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Yes, it does make sense, barring the detuned Daytona.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing the Triumph Scrambler in India, though it does not fit the 100bhp requirement . The Speedmaster would be a bit of a stretch for that space
See, the Daytona and the Bonneville are actually probably fuel-cum-reliability related detunes (both dropping 7-8 horses for the developing world).

The Striple is a portfolio rejig. Damn shame, if so.

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Old 20th November 2014, 15:18   #83
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
So you're essentially strengthening my theory right? That at 106 bhp and 9 lacs it was eating potential Daytona sales of 126 bhp and 12 lacs (or 14 for the R).

So they have 7 lacs 60 bhp in the Bonneville and 9 lacs 80 bhp in the striple and 12-14 lacs 120 bhp in the Daytona.

That still leave a potential slot open - 10-11 lacs and around 100 bhp.

So is something going to come in there?
Doc you got a very valid point. I never thought about Daytona (though i can buy one) was because of above reasons. Why pay 3 lacs more when you can buy ST which has same chassis and engine (in a lower state of tune) as daytona. Also ST can be used for touring*.

Bonnie makes 60PS at 7L.
Street Triple makes 80PS at 9L
Daytona makes 120PS at 12L

And if some one wants a muscle bike which has good power then Speed triple at 12.5L

But why did they tinker power figures of daytona and speed triple? I don't think these bikes are posing any problem to other triumph bikes.
I guess it could be because of above positioning reason+fuel issues which might be reason for such a move.
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:24   #84
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Interestingly, the Thruxton, which has the same engine as the Bonnie, has not been detuned apparently. The power and torque figures on the Indian site for this one remain unchanged at 69 PS and 69 Nm, respectively.
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:38   #85
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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So is this a positioning exercise? Are they finding the Street Triple at 106 bhp eating into the sales of some of its more expensive stablemates?

So is this an exercise to prevent sales splitting within the same stable?

By pulling the Striple back to 79 bhp, it frees up the Daytona and Speed Triple. And by pulling the Bonneville back to its pre 1997 carbed output (61 bbhp) they've given some space to both these bikes as well. Not to mention the Bonnie and the Striple are very different bikes.
By detuning the stripe, they would be promoting more riders to z800 than compared to daytona/speed!
Any ways the riders who go for daytona and street triple belong to two different sets and a person with budget of daytona, will be looking more at litre class naked like speed triple/z1000/cb1000/fz1(i.e if he wants a naked bike/upright stance)

At 8.2L ex-showroom it is very difficult to find a more VFM package than z800!But kawasaki is not taking full advantage of this by not establishing showrooms across the country unlike triumph which has its showroom in most of big cities!
(kawasaki has just 3/4 showrooms AFAIK)
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:45   #86
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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By detuning the stripe, they would be promoting more riders to z800 than compared to daytona/speed!
Any ways the riders who go for daytona and street triple belong to two different sets and a person with budget of daytona, will be looking more at litre class naked like speed triple/z1000/cb1000/fz1(i.e if he wants a naked bike/upright stance)

At 8.2L ex-showroom it is very difficult to find a more VFM package than z800!But kawasaki is not taking full advantage of this by not establishing showrooms across the country unlike triumph which has its showroom in most of big cities!
(kawasaki has just 3/4 showrooms AFAIK)
As I said in an earlier post, Triumph is already hit by the Z800, and has probably accepted defeat there. The Z800 is hard to match in terms of value.

What was happening was that BJP - Sena (or old days Sena - MNS) style infighting was dividing the available votebank further. Working more in Z800's favor.

Now at least all eventual final-shortlist Triumph sales will go to the costlier Triumphs, with Striple no longer an option (thanks to performance not being in the same ballpark). Its called consolidation.

P.S. A small confession. Along with being a medical doctor, am also a Pune univ gold medallist in MBA Mktg. lol seriously

Last edited by ebonho : 20th November 2014 at 15:51.
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:56   #87
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Had taken a test ride for Bonnie couple of weeks ,called up the sales guy to enquire about the detune , as per him from 2105 some models are detuned due to arai certification ( which he was not able to explain why second round of certification when it would have been done already ) .So all bikes sold till probably jan or mid feb'15 would be in current state of tune and post which new ones would hit the market .
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Old 20th November 2014, 16:00   #88
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arai certification ( which he was not able to explain why second round of certification when it would have been done already ) .
ARAI certification is an ongoing process. Either every year or every 6 months, depending on period of sales from launch.
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Old 20th November 2014, 20:31   #89
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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So is this a positioning exercise? Are they finding the Street Triple at 106 bhp eating into the sales of some of its more expensive stablemates?

So is this an exercise to prevent sales splitting within the same stable?
Might be. But I wonder now who their new target clientele is for the striple. If this detuning is true, I wonder how many, like me, are no longer interested. As I said before, 100 is a magic number, whether bhp, bhp/ ton, cricket, or exams. 99 does not cut it, let alone something in the 70s or 80s. It is not about science or engineering, but emotion. A bike manufacturer, more than anyone else, should know that.

On a more technical note, back of envelope calculations suggest an air restrictor, or if it is a throttle by wire, a simple strategem of not opening the throttle fully! Indian volumes will not justify a reengineering.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 20th November 2014, 20:47   #90
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On a more technical note, back of envelope calculations suggest an air restrictor, or if it is a throttle by wire, a simple strategem of not opening the throttle fully! Indian volumes will not justify a reengineering.

Regards
Sutripta
May not be that simple. The peak torque and power figure changes seem to indicate something more, possibly a remap in addition to your observation
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