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Old 21st November 2014, 18:02   #121
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

On triumphmotorcycles.in, 106BHP is mentioned in Features section and 79PS in Specs.
Its this way on Brazilian site as well.

Also kerb weight of ST was changed from 184 to 188 recently IMO on indian site.
Some international magazine guys tested weight of ST R and found it to be 190KG where as triumph claims it to be 184.

On UK website, power figure is 105 or 106 in Features as well as Specs section.
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Old 21st November 2014, 20:23   #122
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Indeed what I was thinking. That would necessitate new parts for a very small volume. Doesn't make logisitical justification. ECU mapping controls FI and ignition timing/duration, and it's all easier to control.

The tuning for power theory doesn't work here - getting even a few more horses out of a well-tuned machine is difficult, but it's very easy to kill power and laying the timing off too much.
...
actually detuning is easy to do and doesn't really require change of parts, all you have to do is reduce the fuel flow and/or set the ignition advance to more conservative.
Getting more is difficult, getting less not so.


Don't expect much of a clued in answer from dealers. This is something Triumph officials need to answer, and that could happen if a prominent magazine who can reach out to them raises the question with them.
Torque/ power is a function of available air. Fuel follows air. And for a manufacturer who has to follow emission norms, there is very little leeway on the fuel front.
Retarding ignition to reduce power to this extent would cause massive engine overheating, and other problems.
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Originally Posted by udainxs View Post
May not be that simple. The peak torque and power figure changes seem to indicate something more, possibly a remap in addition to your observation
Actually, it was because of the figures in
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...ml#post3584386
which shaped my thinking.

One easy change would be a thicker head gasket. As would be an air restrictor.

Do any of the Triumphs straddle any of the EU rider licensing norms?

Can someone confirm whether the twins and the triples have throttle by wire or not?

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Sutripta
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Old 21st November 2014, 23:26   #123
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Do any of the Triumphs straddle any of the EU rider licensing norms?

Can someone confirm whether the twins and the triples have throttle by wire or not?

Regards
Sutripta
Yes the Street Triple R has a restricted version for EU A2 license. And no, the triples are not ride by wire. Not sure about the Twins though.

On Doc's theory of reduced price - not gonna happen, although I know he truly, deeply wishes for it The bikes, even if the output is reduced, are exactly the same mechanically as the ones sold so far and Triumph gains no cost reduction to justify a price cut. Either we have a 9 lakh rupee 105 bhp bike or a 9 lakh rupee 79 bhp bike. Nothing else as far as I can see. Unless ofcourse, Triumph starts locally manufacturing them as was promised eons ago before their launch but never happened.
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Old 21st November 2014, 23:43   #124
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
Either we have a 9 lakh rupee 105 bhp bike or a 9 lakh rupee 79 bhp bike.
I pick mine up tomorrow, and i hope it is a 9L 100+ BHP bike...
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Old 22nd November 2014, 08:54   #125
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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
I pick mine up tomorrow, and i hope it is a 9L 100+ BHP bike...
Congrats avi. I am sure you will get 105bhp bike.

A friend contacted triumph employee and said its typo. They will fix it in few days. But it's this way since over 4weeks. They should have fixed it earlier.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 11:05   #126
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
On Doc's theory of reduced price - not gonna happen, although I know he truly, deeply wishes for it
I actually agree with you.

This is what Silverflash said -

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The bottom line is that while we're seeing website figures that suggest detunes, we're seeing no change in pricing. And that's a bummer if it actually happens.
And this was my response -

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The bummer is that it could wel happen. And both sides essentially lose. Hope it does not. We need competition. Right now only Kawasaki really makes sense in the middle to upper middle weight segment.
Yes, at one time I did wish for a sensibly priced Indian Striple, but that ship sailed a long time ago. I hope it does not come across as sour grapes now, but there's really nothing from Triumph I am currently lusting over - and for me, a bike has got to be lusted over, otherwise its not worth owning. My one single steadfast center of lust was rudely dashed by the KTM-Bajaj nexus. Which is why I immediately stopped vacciliating and went and got myself the best used 390 I could get with the lowest miles at the best price. This now gives me breathing space, with a really nice set of wheels under me for the near future. Till something new comes along which makes me really lust for it.

I must also say here that after a stage (the puppy stage where you have posters of exotics on your room wall over your bed) you lust for something you know you have a realistic option of buying. I know I am not going to be buying Tiger anytime soon or a GS1200 so I do not lust, one way or the other. The KTM 990 Adventure, is in the same bracket, but I have a private lust corner reserved for it. The 690 Duke, I lusted for. A lot. Damn KTM and Bajaj. The Honda 650 due to come, could also make a strong case for itself if priced right. It looks the part. But its not really making me lust for it if you get what I mean. Maybe the supermoto trim ..... who knows. The Ninja 650 is another which makes a huge amount of sense - with zero lust factor. The Z800 now - that's different ..... ugly (locust meets bulldog was my first and enduring reaction to it in the flesh), but different. I have seen what it can do under a good rider, and I can see myself riding that one. Its a naked, and in black, its pretty badass and raw.

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The bikes, even if the output is reduced, are exactly the same mechanically as the ones sold so far and Triumph gains no cost reduction to justify a price cut. Either we have a 9 lakh rupee 105 bhp bike or a 9 lakh rupee 79 bhp bike. Nothing else as far as I can see. Unless ofcourse, Triumph starts locally manufacturing them as was promised eons ago before their launch but never happened.
In that case, Triumph might as well wind up the Striple.

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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
I pick mine up tomorrow, and i hope it is a 9L 100+ BHP bike...
Congrats! I think yours would be the 106 bhp one. Confirm all the same. You could be buying a soon-to-be Indian collector's item.

Last edited by ebonho : 22nd November 2014 at 11:14.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 12:05   #127
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Congrats! I think yours would be the 106 bhp one. Confirm all the same. You could be buying a soon-to-be Indian collector's item.
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Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
Congrats avi. I am sure you will get 105bhp bike.
Thanks guys! When this thread broke out, i did check with the dealer and he confirmed that it is the 105BHP version, or at least it is in the same state of tune as all other Striples sold till date in India

Barring a dyno run or going up against a Z800 in a drag, there is no other way to be sure
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Old 22nd November 2014, 14:25   #128
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Why doesn't Team BHP write to Triumph India to provide an explanation and put this to rest?
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Old 22nd November 2014, 15:27   #129
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
going up against a Z800 in a drag
That can be easily arranged. Safely.

Do finish your run in and first service first though.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 16:33   #130
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
That can be easily arranged. Safely.

Do finish your run in and first service first though.
Of course, need to finish the run-in first.

So i have collected the bike and was reassured constantly that it is the 106BHP version. However, to deepen the mystery, i saw the ARAI certificate for the STriple, and it rated the power at 58.3KW @ 11050RPM, which is approximately 79BHP @ 11050RPM. Did any of the current owners of Striple see the ARAI certificate for their bike?

There is no clarification forthcoming from Triupmh and the dealers themselves do not have much more information. One explanation being offered is that the power rating calculation is done differently by ARAI and Triumph-UK, and given my lack of knowledge on the matter, i do not know if i should take the explanation seriously.

I am hoping to get clarification by early next week of what actually have i bought, and i sure hope it is what i paid for, i.e, 106BHP.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 16:53   #131
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post

I am hoping to get clarification by early next week of what actually have i bought, and i sure hope it is what i paid for, i.e, 106BHP.
If you really really really want to find out, ride any of the Japanese 600s back to back with your Triple. The CBR 600 brand since the mid 90s has been using motors rated 100 Bhp and above. The newer bikes were 110/120 Bhp. A difference of 25-30Bhp would easily show between the acceleration and power delivery compared to a 5-10 Bhp difference.
However, if I was in your place, and with whatever tune, if the bike feels fun and exciting, I would really not care beyond a week of fretting.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 16:55   #132
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
However, to deepen the mystery, i saw the ARAI certificate for the STriple, and it rated the power at 58.3KW @ 11050RPM, which is approximately 79BHP @ 11050RPM.
This is an interesting development. Can you please let us know more regarding the ARAI Certificate? I mean, does it come as a sticker on the bike (like the PUC certificate), or mentioned in the user manual or is it a certificate that's present with the dealer? Pardon my ignorance on this.

Last edited by dreamseller : 22nd November 2014 at 16:59.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 17:13   #133
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Originally Posted by manson View Post
If you really really really want to find out, ride any of the Japanese 600s back to back with your Triple. The CBR 600 brand since the mid 90s has been using motors rated 100 Bhp and above. The newer bikes were 110/120 Bhp. A difference of 25-30Bhp would easily show between the acceleration and power delivery compared to a 5-10 Bhp difference.
However, if I was in your place, and with whatever tune, if the bike feels fun and exciting, I would really not care beyond a week of fretting.
Well given that the run-in caps my RPM at 5K, i can't really push the bike much and of course it is still fun. Given the active Triumph user groups, it would be easy to do a straight up comparison against Striples sold a couple of months back, which i will likely do once i have completed the run-in in a couple of weeks.

I am not sure if i am bothered by the potential 25-30BHP drop or by the potential misrepresentation by Triumph. In the end, i would like to know what i am getting and given the money i am paying, i really did not think i would have to worry about such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamseller View Post
This is an interesting development. Can you please let us know more regarding the ARAI Certificate? I mean, does it come as a sticker on the bike (like the PUC certificate), or mentioned in the user manual or is it a certificate that's present with the dealer? Pardon my ignorance on this.
Nothing on the bike or with the owner. It's what the dealer submits to the RTO when registering the bike, again, i am no expert. I presume dealers would show it, if the owners so demand.

Last edited by manson : 22nd November 2014 at 18:49. Reason: Please avoid back to back posts by using the edit tab whilst posting within an interval of 20 minutes.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 17:21   #134
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Default re: Triumph India: Sold Bikes in India with fake performance figures!

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Originally Posted by A_v_i View Post
So i have collected the bike
Congratulations bro! Photos and writeup please.

Quote:
and was reassured constantly that it is the 106BHP version. However, to deepen the mystery, i saw the ARAI certificate for the STriple, and it rated the power at 58.3KW @ 11050RPM, which is approximately 79BHP @ 11050RPM. Did any of the current owners of Striple see the ARAI certificate for their bike?
Hmmm ....

Quote:
There is no clarification forthcoming from Triupmh and the dealers themselves do not have much more information. One explanation being offered is that the power rating calculation is done differently by ARAI and Triumph-UK, and given my lack of knowledge on the matter, i do not know if i should take the explanation seriously.
Bhp (or PS) is standard across the world. Its a Universal Unit. The method of measurement could be different. The measurement quantum cannot.

In my profession, different labs use different reagents and different methodologies to test the same thing, and as such their Normal Ranges differ. Even the absolute value goes up or down by a bit dpending on the lab, often within the same lab.

But 106 and 79 type differences I have never seen. Maybe the human machine has finer tolerances than our man made ones ......

Last edited by ebonho : 22nd November 2014 at 17:26.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 17:42   #135
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Congratulations bro! Photos and writeup please.
Thanks! Definitely putting up an ownership thread, trying to get to the requisite target posts in order to start my own thread. As you can see, I have been a lazy member till date

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Bhp (or PS) is standard across the world. Its a Universal Unit. The method of measurement could be different. The measurement quantum cannot.

In my profession, different labs use different reagents and different methodologies to test the same thing, and as such their Normal Ranges differ. Even the absolute value goes up or down by a bit dpending on the lab, often within the same lab.
I agree, did not make any sense to me. Like i said earlier, this fiasco is probably going to force me to do a dyno run post the run-in. Am just miffed with the experience, since it is distracting me from enjoying my new acquisition.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

But 106 and 79 type differences I have never seen. Maybe the human machine has finer tolerances than our man made ones ......
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