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Old 24th March 2015, 11:10   #76
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
The 600GT especially comes across as a "faux tourer". Its neither here nor there. And I share the doc's concerns with the width of those panniers. While one may get used to them eventually, the learning curve might be particularly nasty. And how long would those soft Pirellis last in the true "adventure" type riding.
Care to explain this tag "faux tourer" which you have badged for the Benelli TNT 600 GT. I think this is more of a dual purpose motorycle which will be used for highway rides and will do the job when it comes to mild offroading. I dont find anything being faux on this motorcycle. It has a proper inline 4 cylinder engine, 6 speed gearbox for relaxed cruising, flat torque curve that makes it run at 30 KMPH on topgear and accelerate from there right to the top speed (amazing torque spread), comfortable seating position for touring, projector headlamps, and many more (except ABS). About the wide panniers I have seen RE Motorcycles sporting ladakh carriers and many sucn carriers which protrude outside, so riding with those OEM pannier boxes on the TNT 600 GT wont be a problem AFAIK, about the pirelli tyres how can you talk about them without even experiencing them. Same thought was floated around when KTM offered Metzelers with people questioning its durability in Indian conditions. I believe the TNT 600 GT is a beginners motorcycle that can be used for adventure touring as well as for highway cruising. There are people who like dual purpose motorcycles and this one gets my vote.
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Old 24th March 2015, 11:17   #77
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by ranjitnair77 View Post
First service at 1000kms which is free.
The cost of the major service sounds okay to me.
I think by first service free, they mean only the labour. Consumables like oil, oil filter will be chargeable, which will be 50-60% of the cost of each service. 4000 kms interval seems very less and therefore the running cost seems very high. A lot of questions about reliability, spares cost, accessories etc will be known only in the long run

anilupadhya: When he was adamant about the clutch not being dry, I questioned him about the excessive clattering noise at idle, which is usually associated with a dry clutch. To this, his answer was " This is how Italians are, they're coarse" Seemed like I had touched a nerve and he was in no mood to entertain further questions
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Old 24th March 2015, 11:20   #78
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

What you say is carbon fiber look may well be carbon fiber...it seems so from the pics.
And youve mistaken the temperature gauge for the fuel gauge.
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Old 24th March 2015, 12:39   #79
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Care to explain this tag "faux tourer" which you have badged for the Benelli TNT 600 GT. I think this is more of a dual purpose motorycle which will be used for highway rides and will do the job when it comes to mild offroading.

About the wide panniers I have seen RE Motorcycles sporting ladakh carriers and many sucn carriers which protrude outside, so riding with those OEM pannier boxes on the TNT 600 GT wont be a problem

I believe the TNT 600 GT is a beginners motorcycle that can be used for adventure touring as well as for highway cruising. There are people who like dual purpose motorcycles and this one gets my vote.
I have to agree on most of these these points. This GT seems like a proper tarmac tourer which is where you will spend most of your time riding. Triumph was very smart in understanding this which is why they launched the Tiger XRx and XCx which are tarmac and off-road focused respectively. The Tiger has a lot more pedigree than this but the GT costs less than half. The consumer now has an affordable choice which is always a good thing.

The concerns about panniers protruding is not a concern at all. You can take the hard cases off completely, which you will probably do 90% of the time. You can choose to not buy the hard cases at all and buy less bulky soft saddle bags. In fact, I would be more concerned about dropping the bike on tour and damaging the Givis. Ruining a Rs. 40,000 case would be heartbreaking.

Having said that, the bulk and the weight is a major downer for me. My biggest concern along with the lack of ABS. You will need Popeye like strength to lift the bike up if you drop it. And chances are, you will drop it at some point. The real gap in the market, according to me is a tourer that is lighter, nimbler and easier to handle. Akhil Kalsh outlines this in his brilliant blog.

http://riderzone.in/open-letter-dream-bike/

This isn't a beginner's motorcycle. The Bonneville is a great beginner's motorcycle. If they built a touring focused bike on top of the Ninja 650 platform, that would be an incredible touring motorcycle for everyone.

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Originally Posted by hifisharu View Post
I think by first service free, they mean only the labour. Consumables like oil, oil filter will be chargeable, which will be 50-60% of the cost of each service. 4000 kms interval seems very less and therefore the running cost seems very high. A lot of questions about reliability, spares cost, accessories etc will be known only in the long run
I would agree and will confirm this when I take the test ride. I'll also ask for the spare parts catalouge and cost so that the picture is clearer.
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Old 24th March 2015, 13:10   #80
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
basic transportation products
Quote:
the doodhwalla's old Yezdi or Hero Majestic.
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'does the job'.
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older technology
I'm sure most riders in India would compare this bike to what they can buy for a similar amount of money in India, and then compare.

There are only two bikes in the same price band currently, the Harley Street 750 and the Kawasaki 650 twins (the Ninja and the naked).

The Benelli does not lose out to either of these two in terms of technology. It has better equipment (50 mm USD front forks, tyres, brakes, suspension, chassis). It weighs the same as the Kawasakis. Its an inline 4 compared to a parallel twin and a V twin. And most importantly, on the road, it will leave its near competitor, the Kawasaki gasping (230 kmph vs 210 kmph). I guess we need not bring the Harley into this particular comparo.

Move away from its price band, and the Benelli would in all likelihood on the road also leave the much pricier Triumph Street Triple behind.

This does not negate our mutually shared concerns about the China or the DSK angle. Just putting things into perspective from the "technolgy" angle and pointing out how Indian riders would see it when the time comes to make a decision with their own money in a market that's not exactly swimming with choices today.

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Originally Posted by v12 View Post
600cc (CBR600, R6) - for 6 lakhs
This is exactly it. A 600 cc inline 4 (albeit quite massively detuned) with better than competition levels of equipment and performance, at the same price.

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Originally Posted by ranjitnair77 View Post
The labels inside said that they were rated till 120kmph. I didn't even know what that meant (does it fly off in all directions beyond that?)
(using up my two smiley quota deservedly)

The black and grey GT does look nice! Thanks for the photos. My suggestion, don't waste your money on the boxes. They are just not practical in India. Ask yourself, even with the "lockable" bit, would you leave anything of value in those plastic boxes outside with the bike in a lodge or hotel parking lot in another state kms from home when on tour? You are anyways going to be bringing in your stuff into your room for the night. So what advantage then do the boxes give you?

Last edited by ebonho : 24th March 2015 at 13:12.
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Old 24th March 2015, 13:38   #81
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by ashishy View Post
I'm going to go and buy lays but I want it to taste like Pringles. I want coke zero at the price of nimbu pani.

What's with so much complaining without even test riding the bike. Benelli is giving VFM 4 cylinders with a wide dealer network. Which Japanese company has done that or even considered it? What is the price of the cheapest tourer you know of? We have been waiting for these bikes at this price for decades. Can't we just welcome Benelli and be happy with them for doing that?

Sometimes coke zero can't do what nimbu pani can.
Yeah getting a little tiring with the CHinese CHinese that. Damn, half the products we use today are made in China. The pricing is really good on these bikes and I guess we need to have a more open mind. Once the sales start and products don't do well, then lets maul them. Till then....
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Old 24th March 2015, 13:45   #82
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

Sorry mods, my 30 minutes are up and I saw Ranjit's second post late.

So please merge this into my multi-quoted post above if possible. I tried but could not.

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Originally Posted by ranjitnair77 View Post
This GT seems like a proper tarmac tourer which is where you will spend most of your time riding.
Quote:
Having said that, the bulk and the weight is a major downer for me.
Exactly my thoughts when I read Navin's post about this bike being used for "mild offroading." This is a heavy bike. And even without the panniers, this is a wide bike (just look at it front on). In fully loaded format, this bike is going to be 270+ kilos. I personally would be VERY wary before taking this bike off road. Mild or not. You cannot compare this bike to a loaded Bullet. A Bullet is a narrow bare-bones all-metal naked with trail bike genes. And yes, on a related point, you can forget about transporting this bike by train with all that delicious plastic all around.

Quote:
If they built a touring focused bike on top of the Ninja 650 platform, that would be an incredible touring motorcycle for everyone.
They did. Its called the Versys, and it "might" be here by Diwali .....

Last edited by ebonho : 24th March 2015 at 13:49.
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:22   #83
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Exactly my thoughts when I read Navin's post about this bike being used for "mild offroading." This is a heavy bike. And even without the panniers, this is a wide bike (just look at it front on). In fully loaded format, this bike is going to be 270+ kilos. I personally would be VERY wary before taking this bike off road. Mild or not.
Well you first need to understand the definition of a dual purpose motorcycle. I am not talking about Enduro models here, these are adventure tourer motorcycles which have mixed riding on tarmac as well as dirt. You also need to understand when I say mild offroading it means hitting a rough offroad trail not intentionally but when you come across it while touring. Any dual purpose motorcycle would do the job of passing the rough trail IF you know how to handle the motorcycle. Also most of the inline 4 cylinder motorcycles are heavy by nature. If you find this model wide then you should look at other adventure tourers which are monsters (read Triumph Tiger 800 XC, Kawasaki Versys 1000, BMW F650 GS, etc).

Coming back to the weight of dual purpose adventure tourers here's a list I have compiled with what comes to my mind:
BMW F650 GS 200 Kgs
BMW R1200 GS 230 kgs
Triumph Tiger 800 XC 215 Kgs
Triumph Tiger 1200 XC 265 Kgs
KTM 990/1190 ADV 215 Kgs
Ducati Multistrada 240 Kgs
Aprilia Caponord 228 Kgs
Kawasaki Versys 650 210 Kgs
Suzuki Vstrom 650 200 Kgs

Do you notice the weights of all these motorcycles?(I have only added what came to my mind there are many more examples) They all weigh upwards of 200 Kgs and yet are used by adventure tourers all over the world on tarmac and offroad riding. Hell I have rode my Tbird500 which tips the scales at 200 Kgs on offroad dirt and although the weight did concern me but I got used to it after riding for a few kms. Also you need to understand it has a humongous fuel tank of 27 litres that adds to the weight but also gives a long range for riding, unlike a motorcycle with a puny tank and high power that makes you peep at the fuel gauge for the danger of running out of fuel. Weight alone does not factor the handling of motorcycles there are many other factors like chassis, swing arm, suspension, tyres, centre of gravity, etc. If one is confident of riding a light weight motorcycle offroad just because of its weight it doesn't mean they can ridicule world class heavy weight motorcycles against doing so. There are so many riders who would feel at home on a heavier motorcycle while going offroad. To each his own.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 24th March 2015 at 15:26. Reason: additional information
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:24   #84
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Well you first need to understand the definition of a dual purpose motorcycle. I am not talking about Enduro models here, these are adventure tourer motorcycles which have mixed riding on tarmac as well as dirt. You also need to understand when I say mild offroading it means hitting a rough offroad trail not intentionally but when you come across it while touring.
http://expeditionportal.com/an-open-...ycle-industry/

Saves me the effort typing.

Last edited by n_aditya : 24th March 2015 at 15:25. Reason: please avoid quoting lengthy posts
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:24   #85
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Default Re: DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
They did. Its called the Versys, and it "might" be here by Diwali
The versys is already here right?

A friend of mine in Chennai picked up one a few weeks ago. I know there is one in Pune, the gentleman also has a Triumph in his garage if I ain't mistaken.
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:26   #86
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The versys is already here right?

A friend of mine in Chennai picked up one a few weeks ago. I know there is one in Pune, the gentleman also has a Triumph in his garage if I ain't mistaken.
That's the liter class Versys Aditya.

Most of us lesser souls are waiting for the 650.
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:32   #87
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

Weight for weight, 13 extra horses from an inline 4 versus a twin will make a perceptible difference on the road.
....
And most importantly, on the road, it will leave its near competitor, the Kawasaki gasping (230 kmph vs 210 kmph).
I was comparing the specs of 600i/Striple/N650 and seeing an interesting fact.

600i
Power 82 hp@11,500 rpm
Torque 52 Nm@10,500 rpm

STriple
Power 79 hp@11,000 rpm
Torque 57 Nm@8300 rpm

N650
Power 72.1@8500 rpm
Torque 66 Nm@7000 rpm

Among these three, both N650 and STriple develops an huge amount of torque much earlier in the RPM range. We know how these two have a wonderful in gear acceleration on the highways. I would be very much interested to see how 600i stands against these two in this department. Looks like one has to rev the engine to extract the maximum.

The other point -> 210 vs 230 kmph ...
Doc, Though both Ninja 650 and 600i are capable of achieving the top speeds you have mentioned, do they even have any chance of crossing the 200 mark either on our Indian roads or even on tracks ? By the time they both try to reach their respective speed limts (which can take ages for any < 100 bhp bike above the 200 mark), will they not run out road ? So unless one does a proper test ride, I am not sure if the 13 bhp difference will make any significant difference on the practical side. I guess 600i USP will be its exhaust note ...

Anyway, the most important factor to wait and watch - DSK-Benelli after sales service support.
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:41   #88
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Well one man's perspective cannot be taken as an ultimate word for these class of motorcycles. Besides his definition of adventure touring may be different than mine or anyone else's. I can give you the example of Ewan Mc Gregor and Charley Boorman who rode BMW R1200 GS in long way round and long way down epic road trips across Russia, Mongolia and African continent where roads are inexistent. So please let us leave about the purpose of these motorcycles to their users instead of telling them what to do with it. You also have to read the comments section on the link that you have sent me, let me help you with it.

Comment by Eric Hall: "I will tell you who I have heard of: Helge Pedersen, Ted Simon, Sam Manicom, Simon and Lisa, Miqel Silvestre, Tiffany Coates, Steph Jevons, Anna Grechishkina, Alex Chacon, Glenn Heggstad, Doug Wothke, etc... I could pick 20 more off a list if you showed them all to me. Have you, Noah, heard of them? Would you scratch off the list of real adventure bike riders the ones who did it on bikes 650cc+ or more than 400lbs? We all get there's value in smaller and it's a huge hole in the market right now, but I'd simply suggest qualifying your statements with something as simple as "in my opinion...""

Reply by Noah Horak: "Maybe I am wrong to use the word Adventure. It would probably be easier to use the term Dualsport or Enduro. But hey, I wrote it to try to opening the discussion. And most of us agree there is a gap in the market that would be GREAT if it was filled.

I wasn't telling any rider "you are doing it wrong".. But I feel the manufactures are doing it wrong. I am trying to get this point across to the manufactures."

I feel one man's perspective on adventure touring motorcycles cannot be taken as a ultimate answers. Manufacturers know what they develop and they have engineers and test riders who do intensive research and development and tests before launching a model.
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Old 24th March 2015, 15:43   #89
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Originally Posted by shan_ned View Post
I was comparing the specs of 600i/Striple/N650 and seeing an interesting fact.

600i
Power 82 hp@11,500 rpm
Torque 52 Nm@10,500 rpm

STriple
Power 79 hp@11,000 rpm
Torque 57 Nm@8300 rpm

N650
Power 72.1@8500 rpm
Torque 66 Nm@7000 rpm
Did you read the Zigwheels comparo? They declared that the ER6N felt (would be) faster than the Benelli in a straight line.

There is a big difference in seat of the pants "feel" and what actualy happens on the road if both machines are ridden how they should be ridden, to their potential.

I got the 230 kmph figure fom a couple of pretty reputed foreign bike magazines (143 mph) so I have no reason to disbelieve it. 20 kmph difference is a pretty serious difference. And while an inline 4 wil develop its peak power high up in the rev range compared to a parallel twin or a triple, it does not automatically equate to the inline 4 trailing to the top as it gets there.

The key is in each bike being ridden the way its meant to be ridden. And yes, if India has the roads for liter class hyper sports to have some fun (well above the 200 mark), there is definitely roads for detuned 600s to have fun as well.

A bike which maxes out at 230 will in all likelihood see north of 200more often and longer than one which peaks at 210 (sub 200 for the naked).

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Well one man's perspective cannot be taken as an ultimate word for these class of motorcycles. Besides his definition of adventure touring may be different than mine or anyone else's. I can give you the example of Ewan Mc Gregor and Charley Boorman who rode BMW R1200 GS in long way round and long way down epic road trips across Russia, Mongolia and African continent where roads are inexistent. So please let us leave about the purpose of these motorcycles to their users instead of telling them what to do with it. You also have to read the comments section on the link that you have sent me, let me help you with it.

I feel one man's perspective on adventure touring motorcycles cannot be taken as a ultimate answers. Manufacturers know what they develop and they have engineers and test riders who do intensive research and development and tests before launching a model.
I did not give you the link as the "final" word to the debate, but mainly MY perspective. In that it saved me typing, because I identify prety closely with most of the prety valid points he makes.

About Boorman and McGregor, did you know that their first choice were KTMs and they shifted to the Beemers because KTM did not come through with the bikes and sponsorship funding and BMW did?

Just saying. Nothing implied against BMW. Simply pointing out the fallacy of your argument and the example cited.

Ask any rider. Light is better off road. There is no arguing that simple fact.

Give any rider the choice between a bigger engine and more power over tougher and lighter for an off road tour, and see what they would choose.

See which bikes do well in the Raid and the Paris Dakar. Not 1200 cc "Adventures" but 450 cc Enduros. And yes, you can very easily tour the world on a 450-650 cc Enduro. You do not need an Adventure for that. One fall, one puncture, in the middle of nowhere, and one realizes the golden virtue of light over big and powerful.

Last edited by ebonho : 24th March 2015 at 15:53.
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Old 24th March 2015, 16:01   #90
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I did not give you the link as the "final" word to the debate, but mainly MY perspective. In that it saved me typing, because I identify prety closely with most of the prety valid points he makes.

About Boorman and McGregor, did you know that their first choice were KTMs and they shifted to the Beemers because KTM did not come through with the bikes and sponsorship funding and BMW did?

Just saying. Nothing implied against BMW. Simply pointing out the fallacy of your argument and the example cited.

Ask any rider. Light is better off road. There is no arguing that simple fact.
Well the way you identify yourself with Noah is your personal choice, similarly I also look at other adventure tourer riders and their experiences and find my choices similar to theirs.

Yes I know McGregor and Boorman were offered KTM bikes and I also know that it was KTM itself that backed out or rather declined giving their bikes citing the possible failure of these two gentlemen on such an epic road journey. BMW ultimately provided their bikes and the results were for all to see. The Beemers comfortably completed this epic journey proving their mettle unlike KTM that backed out.

I have come across many riders personally and on international Adventure Tourer forums and not everyone says lighter is always better. We aint motocross riders who want to make their motorcycles fly in the air or drift in the dirt. We are adventure tourers who want a dual purpose bike which can run at speeds on the highways and do the job when they hit an offroad trail.

Coming back to the topic the Benelli TNT 600 GT atleast gives budding adventure tourer riders like me a cheaper option compared to more expensive adventure tourers.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 24th March 2015 at 16:03.
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