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Old 8th October 2015, 05:40   #16
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Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
Anyone watched this video? Racing on highways amidst traffic can actually result in something terrible. This happened on Delhi agra highway!

Maddy
Good morning! This was already posted and discussed under the accidents thread.

This was in Malaysia!

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 8th October 2015 at 08:56. Reason: Removing video from the quoted post.
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Old 8th October 2015, 07:43   #17
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Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
This happened on Delhi agra highway!
Maddy
This is the Lebuh Raya (expressway in Bahasa language) between Klang & KL in Malaysia. Have ridden & driven on this e-way several times.

ebonho referred to this accident a few posts back.

(p.s. Delhi-Agra aka Yamuna Expressway has no street lighting)
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Old 8th October 2015, 08:53   #18
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Default Re: Big Bikes & Safety

Most of the crashes we see in India (I am speaking of big bikes only) are the result of the rider not knowing the road and riding faster than his skills or road conditions allow him to. Protective gear helps in walking away from the crash, but had the riders followed some basic common sense they wouldn't have got into a spill at all.
Ironically an undivided 2 lane highway is safer for a biker compared to a 4 lane highway with high bushes and a median, because the visibility is greater on the 2 lane road and mobile dangers like a villager or an animal can be spotted much earlier. Its better not to stick to the extreme right lane of a 4 lane highway just to prevent a dog or some such creature jump 2 feet ahead of you. In a car, you can simply run over the dog without incurring any major damage to yourself, but in a bike you will fall.
Likewise on a village road, please stick to speeds below 80kmph , it will give you ample time and space to react to any sudden changes like animals or potholes/unmarked speed-breakers in your path.
In a group of riders please ensure that your front wheel is offset a few feet to the right or left of your lead to prevent you from running into him incase he has to apply sudden brakes, also ensure your tail doesn't literally tail you just a few feet behind.
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Old 8th October 2015, 12:00   #19
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Likewise on a village road, please stick to speeds below 80kmph , it will give you ample time and space to react to any sudden changes like animals or potholes/unmarked speed-breakers in your path.
When I'm passing villages, like on the Lavasa road which we do often, I drop down to 70, even 60.

The way our villages are built, you have houses almost literally opening on to the street you are zipping through.

That's the reason they've built those huge speed breakers on both ends of their village.

Think about what we would have done if it was our home that people were using as a public race track to rip through.

Our kids playing outside our doors.
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Old 8th October 2015, 12:11   #20
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Default Re: Big Bikes & Safety

From my little experience on somewhat big bikes, the following are a few things that I have observed :

1. Anything above 120, in any road, is dangerous and one is just running on luck, in our roads. 100-110 feels safe and the brakes could do a job in an emergency. 80-90 is safe for the two laned highways. 60 when you are going through a locality.

2. Never get lost in the scenery. Stop and take it in if one has to. Look everywhere. A human head over the hedge on the median, a bike that is about to cross the road over the median, a dog standing just next to the road or any of the umpteen things that might metamorphose into being life threatening in the next pico second.

3. Staying on the middle lane feels safest. You get more time to react to sudden death threats from either direction. Plus the right is just for overtaking and the left for the slower vehicles. Make sure you are checking the RVMs frequently as you will never know a 'racing' car might cut you or be dangerously close to your tail. Always be aware of all the directions around you.

4. Sometimes you cannot escape a near accident scenario. Stop immediately. Drink some water. Take a few deep breaths. Let the testosterone settle before you are on your way again.

5. Gear for the person and the machine is imperative. Go as far up as you can. At the end of the day, it saves your anatomy on that bad day.

6. In large groups, make sure there is enough distance in between. A pile-up is very much possible otherwise, especially with the varied skill levels of the riders.

7. Posture is the key. Make sure your arms are light and not locked at elbows/wrists. This allows you to swerve in case of an emergency and save the day. Also does not stress you on longer runs. I see too many locked locked elbows on our roads everyday on very potent machines.

8. If you notice a pot hole or road breaker at the last moment, one should just transfer the weight on the pegs and drive through instead of slamming on the brakes and upsetting physics big time. In case of sudden gravel/mud on a turn, one should not chop the trottle or brake. A slight acceleration will more often than not take you through it.

9. Do not panic if you are fishtailing or swerving due to aquaplaning. Hold the throttle as is. Do no try to correct the machine and one should be fine if the speeds were rational.

Last edited by Sojogator : 8th October 2015 at 12:17.
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Old 10th October 2015, 01:17   #21
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Default Re: Big Bikes & Safety

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Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
Hypermotard- i stand corrected, not the 821.
Hyperstrada, you stand corrected again.

Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday so I want to chip in.

The scene with riding gear today is much better than what it was 5 years ago! We have the likes of Alpinestars and Dainese available locally at prices which are cheaper or equal to abroad. But I still see people complaining that Rs 6000 for street gloves, or 8000 for shoes is too much! And they end up searching for a cheap third name brand or other options. Mind you these are the same people who are ok with spending lakhs on their motorcycle. The prescribed value of riding gear doesn't exist still. There can be a lot of reasons for this, but discussion always helps in understanding and pushing yourself to get better quality gear.

Motorcycle riding gear is some of the most advanced 'clothing' you can buy on the planet. The leaders in this field spend a lot of money in research and development, but there is definitely a sweet spot after which its just diminishing returns or you're just paying for a label. I've seen people's jaws drop when they ask me how much does my 'cool' Arai helmet cost (Its about 65k retail). I then tell them not to worry, my head is waaay more valuable than that. Taking in the example before, I feel you can get some of the best head protection available on the planet for ~25k (Shoei, HJC, Schuberth, Arai etc.) beyond that the helmets are built for specialty purposes (Touring, Racing etc.) but people are more inclined to buy a more 'cool' helmet with graphics than maybe a Solid colored Arai which would cost approx the same and serve you better.

After my fall last september I destroyed my Alpinestars jacket which I had bought in 2007. I had bought a brand new Pulsar 220 at that time which cost me approximately 93k if I remember correctly. I spent around 39k on gear at that time which was almost 50% of the bike's cost. But it was worth it, I still have those riding shoes and still use them on the track. On my recent US trip I picked up a full set of gear (Dainese) for in city commuting use. And when I came back and enquired for the prices of things which I picked up from the Dainese Bangalore store, the difference was hardly anything. I plan to pick up gear locally now that I know my sizing for this brand.

Quality riding gear is a lifetime investment, and you cannot have just one kind of gear that covers all your needs. You will keep adding things to your gear collection which will make it much more modular. Helmets, Visors, Suits etc if you keep these things in good condition and take care of them I'm quite sure they will last a long, long time. I see that slowly slowly the perception of 'Riding gear is cool' is coming along and people's attitude is changing, sadly I see it more biased towards that I have more expensive gear = its better. But I see people yearing to buy better gear for sure.

I feel completely naked on my bike without riding gear, and recently met my friend RohanD from the forum who was excited to ride the bike, I could barely sit behind him for a few hundred meters before I asked him to let me off, we were both wearing helmets. But I felt so exposed and unsafe.

Always remember, ATGATT - All the Gear, All the time! You never know when that dimwit aunty in her verna will decide to turn in front of you, or that idiot taxi driver in the Dzire will decide to change lanes like he is swimming in the open ocean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojogator View Post

1. Anything above 120, in any road, is dangerous and one is just running on luck, in our roads. 100-110 feels safe and the brakes could do a job in an emergency. 80-90 is safe for the two laned highways. 60 when you are going through a locality.

3. Staying on the middle lane feels safest. You get more time to react to sudden death threats from either direction. Plus the right is just for overtaking and the left for the slower vehicles. Make sure you are checking the RVMs frequently as you will never know a 'racing' car might cut you or be dangerously close to your tail. Always be aware of all the directions around you.

4. Sometimes you cannot escape a near accident scenario. Stop immediately. Drink some water. Take a few deep breaths. Let the testosterone settle before you are on your way again.

6. In large groups, make sure there is enough distance in between. A pile-up is very much possible otherwise, especially with the varied skill levels of the riders.

8. If you notice a pot hole or road breaker at the last moment, one should just transfer the weight on the pegs and drive through instead of slamming on the brakes and upsetting physics big time. In case of sudden gravel/mud on a turn, one should not chop the trottle or brake. A slight acceleration will more often than not take you through it.

9. Do not panic if you are fishtailing or swerving due to aquaplaning. Hold the throttle as is. Do no try to correct the machine and one should be fine if the speeds were rational.
1 & 3 - I disagree with you there, a there is no such thing as a safe speed or lane. There is a attitude you need to develop to ride on public roads in our country, I was doing 50km/h when I hit a oil slick and the bike slid from under me. I was not riding aggressively. I was cruising along enjoying my bike on the way back home.

4 - I think you mean adrenaline. I know how that feels, just remember to check your speed before you stop. Sometimes you are shaken up and forget you are moving while trying to put your foot down. It has happened to me.

6 - I strongly advise against riding in large groups. These are usually internet forum meets where you are riding with a lot of people you dont know. Its extremely dangerous in my opinion. Groups should be divided into 4-6 bikes rather than 60 people riding in formation.

8 & 9 - These are very simple to prevent. RIDE YOUR DAMN BIKE! Spend some quality time with her, take her out. Know and understand how she feels. Usually I see people getting in accidents because the only time they are ride are on weekend 'rides' and the park the bike back for the rest of the week. And when something happens you have no idea how to respond because you don't know the machine. A bike is very much like a relationship, you need to keep it alive by spending some quality time together!

Last edited by quickdraw : 10th October 2015 at 01:28. Reason: Added some stuff
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Old 10th October 2015, 11:41   #22
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Default Re: Big Bikes & Safety

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Originally Posted by Sojogator View Post


4. . Let the testosterone settle before you are on your way again.

7. Posture is the key. Make sure your arms are light and not locked at elbows/wrists. This allows you to swerve in case of an emergency and save the day. Also does not stress you on longer runs. I see too many locked locked elbows on our roads everyday on very potent machines.

8. If you notice a pot hole or road breaker at the last moment, one should just transfer the weight on the pegs and drive through instead of slamming on the brakes and upsetting physics big time. In case of sudden gravel/mud on a turn, one should not chop the trottle or brake. A slight acceleration will more often than not take you through it.

9. Do not panic if you are fishtailing or swerving due to aquaplaning. Hold the throttle as is. Do no try to correct the machine and one should be fine if the speeds were rational.
Agree on the points that I have removed .. Good stuff!

4. Testosterone -- hilarious so couldn't stop mentioning that.

8. Transfer of weight -- is that a common technique - irrespective of the kind of bike one rides? can you please tell me how do one do this when riding a Dyna or a Softail or a Chieftain?

9. Easier said than done eh? :-) Only a super experienced rider can think of all this - but most riders just PANIC - the first natural reaction in a living being (humans?) - If you get into a situation where your bike is Aquaplaning/skidding - pray to god! -- don't think one would have time for even this. (personal experience - bike giving away from under me at 100+ kmph on gravel)
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Old 10th October 2015, 13:04   #23
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Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Agree on the points that I have removed .. Good stuff!

4. Testosterone -- hilarious so couldn't stop mentioning that.

9. Easier said than done eh? :-) Only a super experienced rider can think of all this - but most riders just PANIC - the first natural reaction in a living being (humans?) - If you get into a situation where your bike is Aquaplaning/skidding - pray to god! -- don't think one would have time for even this. (personal experience - bike giving away from under me at 100+ kmph on gravel)
4. Yes, should be adrenaline. *facepalm* Thanks for correcting. Word suits 'riding' though.

9. Not a 100 but yes, have done a few times at around 60 - 70 kmph aquaplanes, mostly the tires found grip after a few meters again unless you are braking. Same with mud on corners, etc.

Yes, one cannot think at those situations. That is why you should be acquainted enough with the machine so that it comes as a reaction. Panic = grabbing/chopping = deep into a pile of problem.
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Old 12th October 2015, 09:52   #24
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Originally Posted by Sojogator View Post
1. Anything above 120, in any road, is dangerous and one is just running on luck, in our roads. 100-110 feels safe and the brakes could do a job in an emergency. 80-90 is safe for the two laned highways. 60 when you are going through a locality.
The topic of safe speed deserves itís own 10 point list.

1. Safe speed is never an absolute number Safe speed varies and the three major factors to consider are:
  • Ambient Conditions (road, visibility, rain, vehicular traffic)
  • Riderís own limitations
  • The machine (braking system, type of tyre and itís conditions)
2. Ambient Condition: Road Braking distance reduces based on tarmac. Some roads in our country are very slippery thanks to overzealous use of tar, be aware of such roads.

3. Ambient Condition: Visibility Reaction time reduces in low visibility conditions. Be aware of this scientific fact and adjust speed accordingly. As a corollary, learn to be VISIBLE on the roads - headlights always on, Hi-vis riding gear, use of trafficators etc. Assume 4 wheeler drivers to be always ASLEEP, BLIND or DRUNK and ride accordingly. (no offence meant or implied to 4 wheeler drivers).

4. Ambient Condition: Rain Rain or presence of water on road plays havoc with the contact a bike tyre has with road surface, not to mention reduced visibility. Pay heed to such conditions.

5. Ambient Conditions: Traffic Learn to maintain a safe distance by practising and using the 2 second rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule . For bikers, this becomes an exercise in 3D. Ballpark figures are a distance of 2m all around the bike at urban speeds of ~ 40kmph. Donít let anyone come closer and always be aware that this Ďvirtual bubbleí of 2m diameter should increase in size as one speeds up. Up to say, 5m or more for Indian street legal speeds. Make It Large, as they say.

6. Riderís own Limitations In other countries, a riderís reaction time to emergency braking conditions is well tested and practised BEFORE one gets a license. In the absence of this well practised self-awareness, please find out ways & means of testing your own reaction time and always ride within itís limit.

7. The machine A machineís stopping abilities will depend on systems in place (ABS, traction control etc) as well as the type of tyres and weight distribution. Condition of brake pads, tyre tread depth & braking techniques all play a vital role in braking effectiveness. Remember that the front brakes provide 70 - 80% of available stopping power in any bike. Practise & learn to use the front brake judiciously.

8. Why shouldn't I speed on my motorbike in India when I've paid big bucks for it? Buyers of imported bikes should pause to reflect on why they canít and shouldnít speed like their overseas counterparts on Indian roads. Absence of a proper license & training is course one reason, but there are several others.

9. Why India is different - Part I One major reason is the concept of relative speeds, which authorities in our countries have never understood. Say if all vehicles on a motorway are travelling at a nominal speed on 80kmph, then the relative speed between them is ZERO. However, if on the same motorway, one vehicle is travelling at 30kmph and the other at 100kmph the relative speed between them is a whopping 70 kmph! In our country, officials deliberately enforce high relative speeds by specifying different speed limits for bikes, car & other vehicles. This is so WRONG.

Some methods of enforcing proper ZERO relative speeds are implementing slow & fast lanes, traffic fines for under speeding vehicles & road hoggers, not allowing slower category of vehicles on expressways, building pedestrian underpasses or OH bridges instead of zebra crossings, acceleration zones at urban expressway entry points etc.

10. Why India is different - Part II Design, quality & maintenance of roads. Roads built for biker safety are a non-existent concept in our country. Think of uneven joints, permanent parallel depressions on highways by trucks, unmarked speed breakers, crater sized potholes, a cliff instead of a road shoulder, road joints running parallel to the direction of travel etc. I can bet that those who are in charge of designing & building roads & expressways have never ridden a bike in their lives, leave alone designing roads for one.
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Old 12th October 2015, 10:43   #25
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Default Re: Big Bikes & Safety

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Originally Posted by Sojogator View Post
From my little experience on somewhat big bikes, the following are a few things that I have observed :

1. Anything above 120, in any road, is dangerous and one is just running on luck, in our roads. 100-110 feels safe and the brakes could do a job in an emergency. 80-90 is safe for the two laned highways. 60 when you are going through a locality.
Any speed way above the speed limit on any road is dangerous, in any vehicle. And not only to the one on it.

If conditions are perfect, slightly higher speeds - say, 10 % - may be OK, since our speedometer may not be indicating true speed. For higher speeds, it is better to go to the track.

I am not a big bike rider, but regularly see how some of them are ridden when I drive on the highway.
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Old 18th October 2015, 20:54   #26
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After drilling it into the heads (onto the heads) of riders- this well fitting helmet- saved a riders scalp and more.
Fully geared, he got off with a skin tear on the calf which needed a bunch of stitches- but saved him the agony of lacerations and broken bones.
He ran wide and hit the safety barrier that lines the highways.
So even the most 'simplest' of brands works and will safe much grief- its absolutely imperative to get good fitting gear AND wear it.
Big Bikes & Safety-img_0151.jpg

Big Bikes & Safety-img_0152.jpg

Big Bikes & Safety-img_0154.jpg

Big Bikes & Safety-img_0155.jpg
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:34   #27
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Default Re: Big Bikes & Safety

Read up, read up!! There is no substitute to knowledge. Biking requires more knowledge than driving a car, simply because one is naked and exposed on a bike and the simplest of errors, changes in variables can bring about a crash. It is important for all riders to know about aquaplaning, cornering, weight transfer,braking, power modulation, limits of the machine and personal limits.
I remember when I first rode my pulsar 180 (the original one), I was doing about 110 on the eastern express highway and going over a patched up section the bike suddenly started throwing tank slappers, full ones from lock to lock, luckily I had read about tank slappers and going against instinct i let go of the throttle and gently modulated the rear brake to decelerate and below 70kmph the bike stabilized. I was saved because of knowledge because had I instinctively pressed the front disks or held on to the handle tightly I would have fallen and there were a couple of trucks doing 80kmph right behind me!!!
Likewise on a separate occasion I managed to avoid a slide on the highway which was slick with monsoon rain, coupled with mud and debri from passing dumpers, when the bike aquaplaned, I just held on without braking or accelerating until the bike slid herself out of the muddy slush albeit with the rubber side down.
Point being reading up on concepts and watching videos will help one during rides.
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