Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes > Superbikes & Imports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th November 2015, 18:09   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,001
Thanked: 1,038 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I do not know who the "we" refers to but most of us here were referring to the the massive mismatch between the weight and the power.
In all its rightness "we" refers to all of us on the forum.
Quote:
Yes, weight just on its own is a huge liability off road.

It becomes even worse when its mated to an anemic motor.

Clue: The Bullet.
In that case people should also start dumping the KLR650(underpowered in your parlance with 37 BHP for a 180+ kgs and 650cc motor) which is a legend in its own right and draws huge numbers of adventure touring riders. Bullet has proven itself in its heyday and still does. The 41NM of torque and 27 BHP on my Tbird is adequate for my needs and No I don't feel the motor is all that anaemic.
Quote:
You continue to extrapolate international riding experiences on to the Indian riding scene and its unique needs.
If you understand benchmarking then yes, also some of these adventure motorcycles are ridden on terrains and temperatures worse than India.
Quote:
Of the Adventures, I've ridden the Tiger. Its huge. It handles well. Its even done well in the Raid (a Pune boy, who trains with a close friend of mine, also on a Tiger).
So what's your point here, meaning did its heavy weight bog him down, I don't think so and the results were to be seen on his cool performance on the rally raid. Also our very own Tbird500 which tips the scales at almost 200kg has participated in raid the Himalaya and garnered good points.
Quote:
These bikes are heavy by any definition. Not just my parlance.

A 200 kilo Ninja 650 feels heavy. Try doing off road with a Ninja 650 what you would with a lighter bike.
This is where the difference comes and it depends from rider to rider. I have rode by Tbird500 which weighs in at 200kgs on dirt trails and offroading upto several kms. Refer to one of the pics on my Tbird500 thread to see the trail.
Quote:
These 220-250 kilo Adventures would feel light and flickable compared to massive Harleys and luxo barges like the Honda Goldwing.

Does not make the big Adventures light bikes. It just makes them lighter than the really heavy to heaviest ones.
First of all these two categories are poles apart and cannot be compared one are heavy cruisers and others are adventure tourers, both meant for a totally different purpose.
Quote:
Apparently, not just to me, but many others as well. Many (except you) on this very thread incidentally. Again, it would be a good idea to discuss these things as an Indian biker riding in India and not continuously talking of what riders do abroad.
Benchmarking is the key word mate. There are also many riders abroad who ride a Bullet(anaemic in your parlance) and are very happy about it. They think it has adequate power and does its job well.
Quote:
Chalk and cheese. 280 kilos is 100 kilos more than your now-shifted goalpost of 180 kilos.
Mate you need to understand the examples I was giving for easy understanding. I took Adv Tourer right from 180 to 280 kgs to explain how riders still buy those motorcycles despite of their weight. As for the goal posts they are not goal posts they are a weigh scale of adventure class motorcycles.
Quote:
That's the equivalent of adding a very big/fat guy on to the bike before you or your luggage even gets on to it. Or one and a half healthy Indian guys. Or two really scrawny college types working out to become race jockeys.
I fail to understand your point once again, bringing in weight of all these factors.
Quote:
There is a humungous difference between the 180 kilos you have now come down to (shifting goalposts?) and the 210 kilos the Benelli weighs in at.
I have never mentioned about 180kgs being heavy you are assuming it so. Also the Tbird500 I own weighs 200 kgs dry without luggage and rider, but it still has enough juice to go on and never feels stressed.
Quote:
My post above was to show to you mainly that just the weight of a bike means nothing. The Adventures you referred to in your post earlier were mostly 1200 cc behemoths that all produced enough bhp to pull that weight. 130-160 horses pulling 220 kilos is VERY different from 46 odd horses trying to lug 210.
To your liking you are just targeting the 1200cc behemoths and ignoring the other 650 and 800cc motorcycles I have mentioned. Classic case is the KLR650 which has 37BHP and still pulls 180+ kgs without luggage and rider.
Hope you can appreciate the point that was being made.
Quote:
It is the KLR I was referring to as the Bullet-like throwback to a simpler time that is much loved, but will never really improve greatly in terms of performance. It was and will always remain a venerable slow battle tank.
There's no reason why KLR650 is a favourite among adventure tourers slow or whatever.
Quote:
I believe we are on Team BHP. Let's discuss Adv Rider on Adv Rider. And discuss simply the bikes here?
Referencing does no harm. There's a lot to learn all over the place.
Quote:
The Bullet is an oddity for those guys. An amusing and nostalgic one at that.
There are a lot of reviews that focus on its fun to ride factor and many other aspects besides nostalgia and other such stuff.
Quote:
Nothing more nothing less. Please do not read any more into the photo of the fully laden Bullet doing the Leh circuit (something which Kinetics have done in the 90s) as anything more than that.
That's what I exactly posted for when someone brought in reliability of the Benelli over Kawasaki. Ride does not matter what matters is the rider.
navin_v8 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2015, 18:16   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Circling the trees time Navin.

I believe I have nothing new to contribute to this particular exchange, either in the current context or as a continuation of the past.

If slow, ponderous and heavy floats your boat as a rider, all power to you mate.

Cheers, Doc
ebonho is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2015, 19:18   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,001
Thanked: 1,038 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Circling the trees time Navin.
If proper explanation and reasoning means circling, then I have nothing more to say.
Quote:
I believe I have nothing new to contribute to this particular exchange, either in the current context or as a continuation of the past.
whatever appeals to you mate. I am outta here and back to TRK502.
Quote:
If slow, ponderous and heavy floats your boat as a rider, all power to you mate.
Not exactly who needs hyper power for riding on unknown dirt trails where speeds seldom hit 60 kmph unless one is in the Dakar rally. Adventure touring has dirt trails and offroading else we would not be seeing riders opting for 1200ccGS with 120Bhp instead of the SR1000 belting out close to 200Bhp. Both belong to a different category and are chosen accordingly.

Coming to Benelli TRK 502 I definately think its 500cc twin motor will pack a punch with 46 odd horses and 45 NM odd torque for adventure touring especially on dirt trails and offroading where speeds are cut down by half. I am sure it will have good midrange power and torque delivery common to Adventure Tourers. Add to that the 20 litre fuel tank with maybe 400kms range and spoke wheels.
navin_v8 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2015, 20:02   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
mail4ajo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,834
Thanked: 222 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Are they not keen to update the 600 series? Love to see a new look and ABS as standard.
mail4ajo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2015, 20:42   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
Red Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,190
Thanked: 1,116 Times
Default

You know navin, in terms of reliability, the japs are a no brainer. Maybe is someone is adventurous enough about buying an adv bike, will probably tilt towards the benelli. I prefer to wait and watch.

Secondly, lighter is always better. Not feather weight light, but between 150-160 dry and 180 wet. That would be the best weight benchmark for an adv tourer. Add pillion and saddle bags, and you are over the 200 mark. When you take a fall in a water crossing, that's when a lighter bike helps. Still to each his own. I would just like the 390 adventure with a pillion and touring tank. Would do for me.
Red Liner is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2015, 22:04   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post

Secondly, lighter is always better. Not feather weight light, but between 150-160 dry and 180 wet. That would be the best weight benchmark for an adv tourer. Add pillion and saddle bags, and you are over the 200 mark. When you take a fall in a water crossing, that's when a lighter bike helps. Still to each his own. I would just like the 390 adventure with a pillion and touring tank. Would do for me.
Always.

Would personally prefer something with more grunt than the 390 though.

With a cruising mileage in the 22-23 kmpl range.

A tank range of about 350-400 kms.

Top speed around 210-220 kmph. So that it should eat the miles to the adventure part quickly and effortlessly.

Great lights a must.

Not greatly fussed about saddle height as I'm a 6 footer. But yeah, your weight cues are spot on for the bike at 180 wet max.

Tubeless tyres spoked wheels would complete the package. Not too fussed about fancy suspension or ground clearance. A little tad more than my Duke would be more than cool.

Normal bikes I think I would need an 800 or plus minimum for all of the above.

KTMs maybe a 590 twin should do.

Waiting. And like you, watching everything in the meantime.

Cheers, Doc
ebonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2015, 22:16   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,001
Thanked: 1,038 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
You know navin, in terms of reliability, the japs are a no brainer. Maybe is someone is adventurous enough about buying an adv bike, will probably tilt towards the benelli. I prefer to wait and watch.
Mate I am very well aware of Japanese reliability, infact I drive a Mitsubishi. One of the reasons why I included Japanese bikes while mentioning different ADV tourers. About being adventurous for buying a motorcycle, if everyone was so cautious we wouldn't have seen people buying KTM and the now recently launched Mahindra Mojo as against their Japanese counterparts. The fact is some of the Japanese ADV tourers I mentioned have no plans of launching in India any time soon. Whereas looking at Benelli's past experience in India I can say they might consider launching their new models here.
Quote:
Secondly, lighter is always better. Not feather weight light, but between 150-160 dry and 180 wet. That would be the best weight benchmark for an adv tourer. Add pillion and saddle bags, and you are over the 200 mark. When you take a fall in a water crossing, that's when a lighter bike helps. Still to each his own. I would just like the 390 adventure with a pillion and touring tank. Would do for me.
A multi cylinder adv tourer will always breach the 180+ kgs dry weight due to its basic configuration's. A light motorcycle maybe you should look at a dual sport like Honda XR 650l. Its Japanese its light and does not need one to be adventurous to buy it. About the KTM Adv based on 390, the CEO Mr. Pierer himself said it is not in the pipeline at least in the near future. But since you like to wait and watch, you can hold on to your decision.
navin_v8 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2015, 20:23   #38
BHPian
 
emperorofindia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 68
Thanked: 80 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Well I'm personally a fan of faired bikes and i think Tornado is one interesting machine. Tnt 300 is one solid machine and fairing makes it a compelling package. Sure, it's no ktm or Yamaha beater either on power or cost but it can be a mid point between the katoom and yammy. That is, if priced right . If not, it has the possibility to become irrelevant. You see, loud screams don't make much difference when machines costing less or same are flying past you. (In reference to TNT300's loud pipes :P)
emperorofindia is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2015, 20:45   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by emperorofindia View Post
You see, loud screams don't make much difference when machines costing less or same are flying past you.
Lol classic.

I might come back to you for permission to use this as my signature line some time and some place else. If that's OK with you.

Which Yam are you speaking of incidentally?

Last edited by ebonho : 21st November 2015 at 20:58.
ebonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2015, 22:24   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 127
Thanked: 84 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

I think we are going OT here but could not help commenting.
I do belong to the ignorant lot that do not understand the difference between an adventure tourer and others. But having used a TBTS 500 and now a Kawasaki ER-6n across the length and breadth of the country, I guess I am qualified enough to comment.I just wanted to sight few practical experiences of mine to drive home the point:
Example #1:
I'd been to the Himalayas (Climbed Sach pass from Chamba side and up to Killar and then onwards to Kishtwar) on my TBTS and anyone who's done this route will tell you how steep the ascent/descent is and how bad the road is esp. once you cross into J & K up to Killar. This was the eureka moment for me when I realized weight DOES matter.
Example #2:
During August of this year, I did Spiti valley on my ER-6n and the road b/w Losar and Graphoo is one of its kind. Again I did feel the weight of ER-6n (>200 kgs) and to make matters worse , I'd a fall before Chandartal. I'd to wait for 30 odd minutes before a kind soul arrived and helped me in lifting the bike ! This again meant only one thing: Weight DOES matter !

Example #3:
I'd been to Sandakphu during the Diwali week (again ER-6n ) and I could barely ride up to Megma and then just gave up. The immense weight of ER-6n just did not allow me to manoeuvre here around. My plan is to take my humble 110 cc Suzuki Shogun up there next time and I am sure she'll climb up easily !

One thing I know for sure: As far as Indian riding conditions are concerned, weight and reliability of the bike matters the most (unless you are a Schwarzenegger type), everything else comes later....
rb2399 is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2015, 23:05   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2399 View Post
I think we are going OT here but could not help commenting.
I do belong to the ignorant lot that do not understand the difference between an adventure tourer and others. But having used a TBTS 500 and now a Kawasaki ER-6n across the length and breadth of the country, I guess I am qualified enough to comment.I just wanted to sight few practical experiences of mine to drive home the point:
Example #1:
I'd been to the Himalayas (Climbed Sach pass from Chamba side and up to Killar and then onwards to Kishtwar) on my TBTS and anyone who's done this route will tell you how steep the ascent/descent is and how bad the road is esp. once you cross into J & K up to Killar. This was the eureka moment for me when I realized weight DOES matter.
Example #2:
During August of this year, I did Spiti valley on my ER-6n and the road b/w Losar and Graphoo is one of its kind. Again I did feel the weight of ER-6n (>200 kgs) and to make matters worse , I'd a fall before Chandartal. I'd to wait for 30 odd minutes before a kind soul arrived and helped me in lifting the bike ! This again meant only one thing: Weight DOES matter !

Example #3:
I'd been to Sandakphu during the Diwali week (again ER-6n ) and I could barely ride up to Megma and then just gave up. The immense weight of ER-6n just did not allow me to manoeuvre here around. My plan is to take my humble 110 cc Suzuki Shogun up there next time and I am sure she'll climb up easily !

One thing I know for sure: As far as Indian riding conditions are concerned, weight and reliability of the bike matters the most (unless you are a Schwarzenegger type), everything else comes later....
Thanks buddy.

The Himalayas are where you realize that it's a fight to breathe and carry yourself when off the bike. Forget manhandling the bike.

Oxygen truly is the great leveller.

Best to keep the lard to the lowlands. Because when the power stops, you feel each kilo.

When in such terrain, you realize that there is such a thing as too much power. Which is easily remedied by a gentle right wrist.

But you cannot shed the kilos magically and carry it elsewhere. They follow you where you go. And need to be carried over and through and up everything. Rocks and water and slush and snow.

Some photos would be great.

Last edited by ebonho : 21st November 2015 at 23:10.
ebonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2015, 23:54   #42
BHPian
 
emperorofindia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 68
Thanked: 80 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Lol classic.

I might come back to you for permission to use this as my signature line some time and some place else. If that's OK with you.

Which Yam are you speaking of incidentally?
Hi Doc! I'm new in this forum but I feel like I've known you from a long time because even though I was never a part of this community, I had been an avid reader and you are one of the most respected members out here. So, of course I'll be honoured if you make this as your signature line.

I'm still new at biking, so I hope you can be my mentor and guide. Wish to become a bhpian soon from a newbie.

Coming back to the post, I was talking about the R3. Which is kind of an all rounder but has a gem of an engine. Imho, the best quarter litre mill out there. So, if Benelli prices it anywhere near it, the Tornado won't really be making any strides out here in the Indian market.
emperorofindia is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2015, 08:16   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by emperorofindia View Post
Hi Doc! I'm new in this forum but I feel like I've known you from a long time because even though I was never a part of this community, I had been an avid reader and you are one of the most respected members out here. So, of course I'll be honoured if you make this as your signature line.

I'm still new at biking, so I hope you can be my mentor and guide. Wish to become a bhpian soon from a newbie.

Coming back to the post, I was talking about the R3. Which is kind of an all rounder but has a gem of an engine. Imho, the best quarter litre mill out there. So, if Benelli prices it anywhere near it, the Tornado won't really be making any strides out here in the Indian market.
Thanks for the kind words buddy. It's a wonderful community and you are already a bhpian when you join. So welcome and dive right in.

To be honest I am a bit of a sucker for Yams. Maybe the fact that my GOD rides one also helps.

The R3 is a class act no doubt. A little too late in the day for me though sadly.

I love the lil Ninja 250 too. Lovely quality bike. Cult following around the world is never lightly won nor worn.

Cheers, Doc
ebonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2015, 09:45   #44
BHPian
 
emperorofindia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 68
Thanked: 80 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Thanks for the kind words buddy. It's a wonderful community and you are already a bhpian when you join. So welcome and dive right in.

To be honest I am a bit of a sucker for Yams. Maybe the fact that my GOD rides one also helps.

The R3 is a class act no doubt. A little too late in the day for me though sadly.

I love the lil Ninja 250 too. Lovely quality bike. Cult following around the world is never lightly won nor worn.

Cheers, Doc
R3 is a damn good motorcycle but it's trying to be a jack of all trades and thus, is a master of none.

It's more of a touring bike than a track machine like the R15 which had a deltabox frame (also present on the R1), lower clipons, rear set footpegs and power deliver (wrt to it's bhp) more suitable for corner carving.

But the R3 is none of that.

Imho, Yamaha should've made the R3 as a track bike and launched a touring version of it too. (Like R15 and the new R15 'S'.) And of course put ABS atleast as an option.
emperorofindia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2015, 14:59   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,001
Thanked: 1,038 Times
Default Re: Benelli reveals three new motorcycles at EICMA 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2399 View Post
I do belong to the ignorant lot that do not understand the difference between an adventure tourer and others. But having used a TBTS 500 and now a Kawasaki ER-6n across the length and breadth of the country, I guess I am qualified enough to comment.
Mate nice to see your expeditions to the Himalayas, I am sure you must have seen umpteen number of (heavy)adventure tourers in that part of the terrain. It always enchants me how those guys manage with those multi cylinder adventure tourers which are considered heavy. I too ride the Tbird500(tipping the scales at 200+ kgs) and have fallen off it a couple of times at crawling speeds while manoeuvring it on hairpin bends going downwards. Each time I managed to lift it upright(using the ingenious technique of fulcrum, angle and a little muscle) and started riding again.
Quote:
One thing I know for sure: As far as Indian riding conditions are concerned, weight and reliability of the bike matters the most (unless you are a Schwarzenegger type), everything else comes later....
Mate the latter part of your post is like the tall guys saying the saddle height of the Tiger 800 XC and BMW R1200GS is perfectly fine for us, similar to how guys with a strong upper body say we can lift up the bike if it falls. In all it depends on riders' preference and their comfort.
navin_v8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DSK-Benelli launches 5 motorcycles in India Tushar Superbikes & Imports 231 1st November 2016 17:09
Rumour: Ducati Scrambler 400 to be unveiled at EICMA 2015 shyn Motorbikes 7 23rd November 2015 23:41
Eight new DSK-Benelli motorcycles en-route India Tushar Motorbikes 0 7th May 2015 14:41
DSK Motowheels to bring Benelli Motorcycles to India sadsack Superbikes & Imports 123 20th March 2015 10:23
Benelli unveils BN251 at 2014 EICMA Aditya Superbikes & Imports 5 13th January 2015 15:08


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:13.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks