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Old 7th April 2016, 22:00   #61
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
Not all of them, but the I've notice the base model has shoddy bits and few friends who own it also mentioned. I love the bike but apart from the thruxton the others feel flimsy when up close.
Interesting, first time I'm hearing this. My view was just the opposite.
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Old 7th April 2016, 23:42   #62
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

I'm resisting the temptation to go off topic but you cant in one post state the Street twin is better built and in another post a link on recall for faulty fuel pump.

Please don't assume I'm taking it personally simply because I own one. I'd happily call out weakness in the 865. Stiff suspension, no ABS, missing basics like fuel gauge,lockable fuel cap etc. And the biggest of all - the Triumph management in India, my horse could manage the company better than them.

But cheap construction, poor quality, flimsy et al are no where close to describing the Triumph Bonneville.

Now back to stalling issues

Cheers.
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Old 8th April 2016, 11:24   #63
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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I'm resisting the temptation to go off topic but you cant in one post state the Street twin is better built and in another post a link on recall for faulty fuel pump.

Please don't assume I'm taking it personally simply because I own one. I'd happily call out weakness in the 865. Stiff suspension, no ABS, missing basics like fuel gauge,lockable fuel cap etc. And the biggest of all - the Triumph management in India, my horse could manage the company better than them.

But cheap construction, poor quality, flimsy et al are no where close to describing the Triumph Bonneville.

Now back to stalling issues

Cheers.
Sting
I've responded on your ownership thread, I do agree now that many of my fears were ill founded and maybe those things just looked out of place and were not necessarily bad in quality. Also nice to see that Triumph India has managed to completely piss off all their customers. I think its a dealership thing too the Delhi dealer is definitely an idiot.
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Old 8th April 2016, 11:34   #64
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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I have been told not to talk about exact thing/things which need to be rectified on the forum. So if they don't sort out the mess within two months then I will let it out in open.

@udainxs-My source in Triumph is a new one so I have to check his credibility before rumours of incorrect informations spreads.
Two months over yet? I am keen to know what was wrong with the bikes. Was it the Tune or the hardware or something in electrical.
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Old 8th April 2016, 12:41   #65
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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Two months over yet? I am keen to know what was wrong with the bikes. Was it the Tune or the hardware or something in electrical.
Nothing much has happened, they have not been able to fix. It is the stepper motor, it cannot respond fast enough once it is dirty. A throttle body and stepper motor cleaning fixes the issue for couple of hundred to thousands kms (depending on luck). My work around keep minimal slack in throttle and hold revs manually, if the issue pops up. Its a nagging thing but that is all we can do for now to otherwise brilliant bike .
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Old 8th April 2016, 13:02   #66
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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Nothing much has happened, they have not been able to fix. It is the stepper motor, it cannot respond fast enough once it is dirty. A throttle body and stepper motor cleaning fixes the issue for couple of hundred to thousands kms (depending on luck). My work around keep minimal slack in throttle and hold revs manually, if the issue pops up. Its a nagging thing but that is all we can do for now to otherwise brilliant bike .
I think you are talking about Idle control stepper motor, Right?
Does it not receive filtered air, how could it get dirty enough to not work as desired within few hundred km. If it gets dirty in such short time, how long the engine last with such dirty air being fed to it.
Also IAC/Idle control motor calibrates itself on every key on(ignition on) cycle,
if its stuck or not behaving as desired by ECU while calibrating or while riding, it will throw a fault code saying :- Loss of Idle speed control.
It might be possible that while cleaning the manifold and stepper motor, ECU is deleting/forgetting short term fuel trims and resolving the issue.
And in due course of time ECU is again learning something stupid.

But I guess people have good contacts within Triumph and they must be knowing much better. Hope this issue is resolved soon, we will also get to learn new things about EFI systems.
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Old 8th April 2016, 15:07   #67
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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I think you are talking about Idle control stepper motor, Right?
====
It might be possible that while cleaning the manifold and stepper motor, ECU is deleting/forgetting short term fuel trims and resolving the issue.
And in due course of time ECU is again learning something stupid.

But I guess people have good contacts within Triumph and they must be knowing much better. Hope this issue is resolved soon, we will also get to learn new things about EFI systems.
Yes this is the steeper motor. And no as far as i have seen no error recorded.

What you mention is quite a possibility (deleting short term trims), but then why is Triumph not able to figure out and resolve? They have supposedly flown down folks from UK to look at it and still no resolution.

Yesterday someone posted a video of new exhaust can install and guess what happens, watch till the end.


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Old 8th April 2016, 15:25   #68
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What you mention is quite a possibility...
I am just listing out one possibility, there might be a dozen of them. I am sure Triumph folks would know, or they may be sending out wrong people, only Triumph can tell. Remember the kind of jokers Triumph has in its kitty.
Issue has telltale signs of lean AFR.
May be the ECU is learning and leaning out even further.
It could even be ignition timing as well. Knock events are registered in ECU short term memory and revised timing is applied to timing correction table.
Who knows, without data it is all speculation.
It might even be a legal hassle for Triumph to sort out. Since it is not above 800cc, it is Homologated by Indian agencies. May be they Homologated wrong ECU map and now can't change it at their will.
They can change it but whole process takes time.

Last edited by noopster : 9th April 2016 at 08:08. Reason: Please do not quote a large part in its entirety. Makes things difficult for ite small screen users
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Old 8th April 2016, 17:37   #69
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

Any one here got a PC5 or other AFR device? If it is AFR related problem, it should solve it, even if doesn't, it wouldn't be bad to have a PC5 for your bike.

Last edited by dustom_99 : 8th April 2016 at 17:47.
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Old 9th April 2016, 20:00   #70
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

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Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
Two months over yet? I am keen to know what was wrong with the bikes. Was it the Tune or the hardware or something in electrical.
Jaggu is absolutely right. Those who have issue should clean throttle body at approx every 2k. Get fuel from a reputable Gas station, keep the filter clean and do long rides as often. Readings from the dirty throttle body are very erratic and the ecu constantly tries to correct it with a wide graph. What we get is a confused ecu trying to reset every time it gets loaded with random values which are not consistent with the mapping.
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Old 9th April 2016, 20:43   #71
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What we get is a confused ecu trying to reset every time it gets loaded with random values which are not consistent with the mapping.
Is this what your source at Triumph told you?
What confusing signals?
ECUs don't tolerate stupid inputs from sensors without reporting and recording it for diagnostic purpose.

I don't think the issue is related to dirty idle control valve or any other dirty sensor. I have a reason to believe so.
This issue, as I have learnt from this thread is experienced both while riding the bike or while standing still.
Just playing with throttle spooks something somewhere.
Usually idle control is not active while riding. That is why you have slightly higher rpm if the bike is moving, with clutch pulled in/ or in neutral. Rpms do not drop to exact idle rpm on the run.
Let me know if they do drop to exact idle even while coasting with bike in neutral and throttle closed.

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Old 10th April 2016, 15:40   #72
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

If readings are within the range of map then I don't think ecu will take it as stupid input and save it as error. Any ways that is my understanding. I think who does mapping or works on ecu' scan shed more realistic facts about it.

Yes "it" told me that it was the throttle body and ecu related.
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Old 10th April 2016, 16:40   #73
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Readings from the dirty throttle body are very erratic and the ecu constantly tries to correct it with a wide graph. What we get is a confused ecu trying to reset every time it gets loaded with random values which are not consistent with the mapping.
This is what you told us before, now you say readings are withing range. If the readings are well within the range that they are expected to be, I guess it should be considered to be consistent with the tune.
But any way, when you said you would spill the beans in two months time, I was hoping for some concrete information, like you have some dirty little secret Triumph doesn't want every one to know.
That is only reason I got interested.

Oh by the way what is a wide graph?
How does ECU correct erratic inputs with it? This bit is very interesting.
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Old 10th April 2016, 21:27   #74
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Default Re: Triumph Street Triple - Severe stalling issue

Two months ago I said I will tell what is causing it and I have said what it is. I don't know if Tbody of triple has map/maf sensor along with stepper motor. I don't know much about mapping and how it works but I have tried to explain as much I understand hence I said let the people in know how put some lite into it. I don't have any dirty little secret, but if I had a triple then probably I would have got a solution by now.

But still for your understanding as per my little knowledge, let's say if ecu gets reading from Tbody by whatever sensor. Let's assume ecu understand values of sensor between 1-100.
It compares to the values stored in it as per mapping and check rest of the parameters like rpm and ignition timing. What if the according to map the values it gets from TBody is just say 40(which could be .40v) but when it checks with the map and rest of the readings(ignition timing , rpm, O2 sensor) then reading should be 60. Then it will try to correct itself by altering timing/fuel ratio and during that it will cause paralysis due to random inputs within a second. If within a second it's getting readings of 40.20,60,80,10 but within the range of 1-100 then surely it will not report a error. It will report a error only if it goes below or above the specified limit of for e.g. 1-100. So if you are into mapping or ecu building then please correct me or shed some light on it. Hence I said let the people in know how comment further. Of course your comments are welcome. I might learn a thing or two.
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Old 10th April 2016, 22:17   #75
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Well that's not what you said two months ago.
You said you had a mole in Triumph who has told you what exact things would be / should be changed, which of course could lead to, him getting fired and face a court case.
Refer quoted text.
And I thought you got links in Triumph and may be we guys can learn something out of that.

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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
I have been told not to talk about exact thing/things which need to be rectified on the forum. So if they don't sort out the mess within two months then I will let it out in open.
@udainxs-My source in Triumph is a new one so I have to check his credibility before rumours of incorrect informations spreads.
But any way let us not drag it any further.
Well the scenario you have created is exactly what ECUs deal with every second. They don't get paralysed due to too many inputs coming in.
Response time of even low cost ECU is about 2000times faster than response time of fastest sensor.
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