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Old 6th September 2016, 20:04   #121
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Thrill Of Driving shared this photo on their feed today morning. Looks like a written request to lodge an FIR.

At least from what I can see in my social media feed, Kawasaki's brand image has taken a hit. Of course people will forget everything sooner or later, but for now there are plenty of them feeling angry about how the Japanese giant has handled this situation.

Any other update on this?
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Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative. EDIT: Bikes delivered (page 11)-14291796_1788522994694379_3605848681021689595_n.jpg  

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Old 10th September 2016, 08:53   #122
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

The case is both sad and enraging. It is foolish of Kawasaki to wash its hands off the case and act like an ostrich. What they dont realise is that the superbike industry is a close-knit one and word-of-mouth travels like lightning across and can ruin a company's image extensively and that too in a huge market like mumbai.

As the owner of two Kawasakis, I shudder to think of being dependent on a company which can so easily wash its hands off such an extensive issue. I honestly think the aggrieved parties should drag the manufacturer to the court and get this as much air-time and visual space on media as possible. Let Kawasaki become an example for other manufacturers who think Indian customers are disposable.

I know it sounds mean and heartless but I really wish some of the big cows in the IKM management lose their jobs or atleast their bonuses over this case. Should put some sense into their heads on how to manage customers in a niche segment like India.
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Old 10th September 2016, 10:24   #123
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

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Originally Posted by narula123 View Post
As the owner of two Kawasakis, I shudder to think of being dependent on a company which can so easily wash its hands off such an extensive issue. I honestly think the aggrieved parties should drag the manufacturer to the court and get this as much air-time and visual space on media as possible. Let Kawasaki become an example for other manufacturers who think Indian customers are disposable.
I completely agree with you. I've heard of similar issues with fellow Kawasaki owners with regards to service issues, where IKM just buries it's head in the sand and leaves the customer out to dry.
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Old 10th September 2016, 11:54   #124
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I completely agree with you. I've heard of similar issues with fellow Kawasaki owners with regards to service issues, where IKM just buries it's head in the sand and leaves the customer out to dry.
I was talking to someone at a rival of IKM so take with a pinch of salt but for Kawasaki, India is not an important market. They don't see potential and hence internally, it's regarded as a punishment posting. The company doesn't think India will give them good volumes and hence the bosses in Japan don't really care about the market in India.

The guy was saying that Kawasaki is clear that they are independent of their dealership and have no connection with them other than taking the cash and providing a bike to the dealer.

Essentially the mood in HQ is that Indian customers can take a hike because this is not an important market. Apparently Indonesia and Thailand are where kawasaki sees bigger potential, apart from developed markets.
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Old 10th September 2016, 12:17   #125
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

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Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
I was talking to someone at a rival of IKM so take with a pinch of salt but for Kawasaki, India is not an important market. They don't see potential and hence internally, it's regarded as a punishment posting. The company doesn't think India will give them good volumes and hence the bosses in Japan don't really care about the market in India.

The guy was saying that Kawasaki is clear that they are independent of their dealership and have no connection with them other than taking the cash and providing a bike to the dealer.

Essentially the mood in HQ is that Indian customers can take a hike because this is not an important market. Apparently Indonesia and Thailand are where kawasaki sees bigger potential, apart from developed markets.
I wouldn't be surprised if your point of Kawasaki taking an approach of being independent of the dealer is true. Unfortunately being familiar with Japanese companies and with KHI, usually the bosses follow the advice of the Indian legal people. And we all know the legal guys will always take an approach to avoid any pay out.

AFAIK, Kawasaki has planed on expansions in India as a high potential market, but I have not facts on this. Either way, Kawasaki knows their bikes will sell anyways. I wouldn't be surprised to see another dealership open soon before this case is settled and customers lining up to buy from them. The only way companies will take these issues seriously is if it hits their bottom line - but most buyers - especially Indian buyers tend to give company history little regard.
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Old 10th September 2016, 14:39   #126
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Quote:
Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
I was talking to someone at a rival of IKM so take with a pinch of salt but for Kawasaki, India is not an important market. They don't see potential and hence internally, it's regarded as a punishment posting.
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Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if your point of Kawasaki taking an approach of being independent of the dealer is true.
I really hope this is isn't true but with how IKM has responded to the situation, there is little doubting that IKM is just not bothered about doing business in India. By publishing a public notice, they may be able to wash their hands off this case but it heavily dents the confidence of those who dream of buying these exquisite bikes.

There are companies committed to protect the customers, then there are those who are indifferent to the plight of consumers and then there is IKM, who is committed to not protect those who trust them with their hard-earned money.

With this attitude, I wonder what happens in case there are troubles due to poor workmanship during servicing. Say one takes his bike for servicing to ASC, the mechanics mess up something or worse still, indulge in Skoda-esque malpractice, would IKM come to the rescue? Or would they wash their hands off saying dealers pay us money, we give them bikes and anything beyond that is between dealer and customer.

I understand dealers and manufacturers are independent entities but then what is the point of boldly proclaiming "Authorised Dealer"? Or is it that those designated are authorised by IKM to fleece the customers?

When this all erupted, I thought IKM would work to mop up the issue by negotiating with the customers and providing them bikes at the very least. However, these people are simply not bothered about anything.

I did dream of one day owning a Kawasaki bike. It would have been my most precious acquisition and as a result of several years of saving hard-earned money. I don't think I can Kawasaki with that now. I'll rather blow up the saved money in a casino knowing what I am doing rather than buy a Kawasaki bike.
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Old 12th September 2016, 21:55   #127
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

One of the affected customers shared IKM and SNK's response to their legal notice, and things look grim.

IKM has simply denied all claims of responsibility, and on top of that has threatened that if they continue to include them as a guilty party, they'll seek damages. It's such an arrogant piece of legal bullcrap that I got angry just reading it, and I'm not even one of those who've paid lacs.

SNK's response is nothing more than denial, "I didn't do anything wrong, but I shall get back to you if I did".

Like a lot of people have said in this thread, Kawasaki India's response has been outrageously foolish, and with this legal notice reply, they've crossed the line. Their attitude feels more like that of a bunch of thugs out to make a quick buck, who couldn't care lesser if a few of their customers don't get what they paid for.

I also find it to be surprising that not many media outlets have shared this news. Some that have, have made things worse by taking Kawasaki's side. Others have done one post and then forgotten about it, most simply ignored. I find it hard to believe that these so called motorcycle enthusiasts living with bikes for a job can't sympathize with bikers who have paid for motorcycles, but can't ride them.

Kawasaki India's angry response does make it look like they're scared, their threats make it look like they know they are guilty. With enough social media pressure, I'm sure they'll be forced to intervene. Of course the final solution here would come via the legal route most likely, but I'm sure all parties involved would prefer to settle things out of court.

Attached are the IKM and SNK responses.
Attached Thumbnails
Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative. EDIT: Bikes delivered (page 11)-ikm-response-1.jpeg  

Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative. EDIT: Bikes delivered (page 11)-ikm-response-2.jpeg  

Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative. EDIT: Bikes delivered (page 11)-ikm-response-3.jpeg  

Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative. EDIT: Bikes delivered (page 11)-snk-response.jpeg  

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Old 12th September 2016, 23:17   #128
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

I am hopping mad. And i am someone who for the sake of principle has spent one and a half hour talking to vodafone customer care to refund me 19 rupees for some silly service they subscibed me to without asking. You can imagine my blood boiling at this letter from Kawasaki's solicitors.

The relationship between Kawasaki and SNK may be principal to principal or a principal to agent. However we, the customers are not allowed to deal with Kawasaki directly for our motorbikes. If i live in Navi Mumbai, and I register on your website for a callback service for the Z800, it is you Kawasaki- who forward my details to SNK for providing me a motorcycle. That action of Kawasaki proves you are authorizing SNK to act on your behalf and provide the customer with a Kawasaki motorcycle.

Along the same lines, If I place an order for 1 lakh packets of FL Chips, they will send those packets to their regional distributor/regional wholesaler and ask me to pick it up from them. Now if i pay the money in advance to the regional distributor/regional wholesaler which they have nominated and more importantly themselves directed me to and then if this distributor or wholesaler absconds with my money- who do I take legal action against; The distributor/wholesaler of FL Chips OR FL Chips themselves who directed me to their distributor/wholesaler

Its your motorcycle Kawasaki. You make it. I would rather buy it from you in the first place but since You dont allow that- I need to buy it from the guy you direct me to. Now that person doesnt want to deliver the bike nor does he want to return my money. Who has to pay me back now? It doesnt take a genius to figure out its the same company which directed me to SNK who has to pay up

Last edited by rahul4321 : 12th September 2016 at 23:28. Reason: addition
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Old 13th September 2016, 01:05   #129
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Let's say I am dummy who doesn't understand legal vocabulary

1. How is company appointed "Dealership" different from "Agent"

2. Why advertise suspension of "Dealership" after lawsuits? if the problem started months back? as per Mr. Chadda's client SNK is just their "Agent"

3. Why communicate with customer's if "Agent" was at fault?? Mr. Chadda's client should I held up their hands first time around and blame it on their "Agent"

4. Why on earth advertise "Agent" as "Dealership" in the first??? why not put caution notice in Ad's??
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Old 13th September 2016, 01:52   #130
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

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Originally Posted by viraj_s85 View Post
Let's say I am dummy who doesn't understand legal vocabulary

1. How is company appointed "Dealership" different from "Agent"

2. Why advertise suspension of "Dealership" after lawsuits? if the problem started months back? as per Mr. Chadda's client SNK is just their "Agent"

3. Why communicate with customer's if "Agent" was at fault?? Mr. Chadda's client should I held up their hands first time around and blame it on their "Agent"

4. Why on earth advertise "Agent" as "Dealership" in the first??? why not put caution notice in Ad's??
1. Well in simple terms, the agent is just a glorified hunter looking to make a pay check. He/she/they are like appointed to just bring the customers in. Thats all their job, is to show and tell. Like salesman. The salesman is different from the sales shop. The sales shop is the dealership. Like when you go to a Tommy Hilfiger shop, you are not directly buying stuff from Tommy Hilfiger himself. Instead, his agents either lure you in or they work there. And the dealership at the mall or wherever it is, is the place where you swipe your card or pay cash. But the money goes to Tommy Hilfiger himself. Now as you can imagine, Tommy Hilfiger is in America. So TH has appointed a TH India Chairman or whatever. The agents report to dealership. Dealership to their respective owners, as normally dealerships are privately owned. Then the private owners deal with TH India. After which TH India get to TH America. And then TH himself.

2. Pending the outcome of their investigation, they too will mull this over. I honestly don't think there is much to mull over here. But Kawasaki India will speak to the head Kawasaki, wherever or whoever they are. All this shouldn't take time, only a matter of minutes. But since this could turn into a very legal thing where cops and feds are involved this will take longer. Kawasaki India will draft a mail, hard copy or soft, and send it to Kawasaki Head Office. Then the HO, upon receiving this aforementioned mail, will stamp it with their "received" stamp. So this secretary or associate or the staff who receives it, will pass it to his senior. Chances are this senior is the head Mail room person. Then he'll send it to the PR guy. Who then gives it to head PR. Now as you can imagine head PR is extremely busy and preoccupied with other PR stuff. So the secretary signs it as received. And then when he finally looks at it, he sees this as a major issue and He'll send it to the Vice Chairman whose office and secretary is accessible since I'm guessing the Chairman is normally not into such things. Then the VC in his own sweet time talks to the head PR and Kawasaki India authority. Then he goes home and thinks on it and forgets it the next day. And then after some time, it pops up again. Now, the whole process can be repeated or they might just do something about it. Odds are, no one cares about 100,000 USD when their account sits pretty at 12 BILLION USD. Especially when there is absolutely no risk of any imagine tarnishing for Kawasaki. In a few months, everybody will forget it besides the poor fellows who are directly involved. Also a few loyalists to proper customer service will care but this accounts to barely 1% of potential suitors.

3. Kawasaki were probably trying to find out what exactly happened as you can imagine the dealership is probably giving Kawasaki India and HO a whole load of crap too.

4. go figure eh, I'm out of guesses here.

All these are mostly guesses here and I simply am in AWE at how customers were treated. The lord knows if i was one of these duped customer, the holy wrath id unleash upon the dealer himself. The Sales representative, the manager, the owner of the shop and Kawasaki India. This would not go down pretty.

But after reading the forum, i still don't get why these duped customers aren't talking to the person in charge. I would simply sit in the shop until i got my money. I don't want no bike no more after being harassed and lied to. Especially not from Kawasaki. If they keep saying it'll be a week or two, id say give it in writing. After which if they do not hand me over my bike, i shall unleash a whole Consortium worth lawyers at their heads. Like when you feed a pack of hungry lions with some raw meat. That position the dealership owner would find himself would be biblical. If its been months and the money hasn't been returned, maybe the customers aren't doing enough to light a fire under his feet. A greater impetus needs to be put forth i feel. But again I dont know whats happening out there, I'm just a commentator who gets seriously enraged when stuff like this happens. This is a persons hard earned money. Completely unacceptable.

Last edited by mijnoirhammer67 : 13th September 2016 at 02:19.
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Old 13th September 2016, 08:18   #131
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Hi

I have a couple of queries in the letter sent by Kawasaki. Appreciate if someone with legal understanding can clear.

Did they imply that SNK is the first owner of the vehicle and then resells it to the customer?

Isn't that second sales? or is it ok counted as first sale if you don't register?

regards
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Old 13th September 2016, 12:58   #132
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Imagine instead of responding the way they have if Kawasaki had seen the bigger picture and decided to transfer the bookings from SNK to one of their other dealers. Effectively this would mean they are writing off the expense or at least deferring it till SNK is in a position to refund the individual buyers' money.

Kawasaki may technically be correct here but they have lost an opportunity to gain tremendous brand equity in the market here. It's a matter of just over Rs 1 cr. The average marketing budget for a launch event would be several times that.

Such a decision would need to come from the CEO, not from Legal or Finance. There's a reason Shakespeare said "Let's kill all the lawyers" The ripple effect would have been tremendous- hell, I'm not a bike person but would have been proud to hop on board with a company that stands by its loyal customer base in times like this. Pity!
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Old 13th September 2016, 13:23   #133
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Quote:
Originally Posted by harshaguduru View Post
Hi

I have a couple of queries in the letter sent by Kawasaki. Appreciate if someone with legal understanding can clear.

Did they imply that SNK is the first owner of the vehicle and then resells it to the customer?

Isn't that second sales? or is it ok counted as first sale if you don't register?

regards
Pardon me for replying here as I am not a legal expert or anyone with any legal background but I work in FMCG Sales and this made me curious too. In our industry the stocks are transferred to the distributors and the title of the stocks also changes with it. Which is the same case when the distributor sells it to the retailer/shopkeeper. In case of tertiary sales, i.e when a layman or shopper buys our product from the shopkeeper, the distributor and company have no financial obligation to and from the shopper. BUT (and this is interesting) the customer complaint cell is run and maintained by the manufacturer and incase of any consumer dissatisfaction or issue with the product, the company replaces it to the consumer at the company's cost (albiet logistics being routed through the same value chain). This to an extent is also to protect and endorse the brand's name on the product.

Now I dont know if as a company we can wash our hands off the product once it is sold by us to the distributor as the title of ownership has also changed hands.

Is this value chain the same in the auto industry where the dealer receives stocks from the manufacturer along with a change of title? If yes then I am afraid that legally Kawasaki cannot be made party to the financial fraud. Maybe if there is enough evidence they can be dragged to court for unfair trade practices by keeping a defaulting dealer on its rolls.

Any POV?
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Old 13th September 2016, 14:52   #134
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Quote:
Originally Posted by harshaguduru View Post
Hi

I have a couple of queries in the letter sent by Kawasaki. Appreciate if someone with legal understanding can clear.

Did they imply that SNK is the first owner of the vehicle and then resells it to the customer?

Isn't that second sales? or is it ok counted as first sale if you don't register?

regards
No, the first owner would be Kawasaki itself.

In terms of trade finance, goods sold across large regions (geographical and legal), are said to be "held in title". Say Ford USA exports 1000 Mustangs to the UK, where Ford UK , a separate entity, is to receive it. Ford US insures and ships the cars. But it's Ford UK who really has to pay for the shipping and insurance, besides the cars. So Ford UK asks Bank Of England to pay on its behalf, which in turn pays Bank of America , who pay Ford US. In this meantime, Bank of England holds title to the 1000 Mustangs - they are the legal owners and if Ford UK cannot pay Bank of England once the consignment lands at the UK port, or within a certain agreed duration after landing at port, they can sell the cars off as compensation , including fines and legal charges.

All of this has nothing to do whatsoever as the local transport agency's registration as owner of the vehicle. Likewise, the dealer of a vehicle buys from manufacturer, so if he has paid for it, he is the title owner - let the vehicle be unregistered, that part occurs later. Registration related ownership is only pertinent to legal road use in the state/country, whereas title ownership is pertinent to sale/transfer of goods only.

As for KHI - they are indeed responsible since they have authorised SNK as their dealer. If it was an unauthorised dealer, sure they could wash their hands off the matter.

Say, if you're defrauded by someone who's a card-carrying (read: valid representative) of say, HDFC bank. Can you take action against HDFC itself, saying your representative (whether an employee or contractor or agent ) defrauded you ? Legal precedent indicates yes.
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Old 15th September 2016, 15:21   #135
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Default Re: Paid for Z800, but no bike! Kawasaki uncooperative, says "we haven't received money from our dea

Name:  MohammedMubarak.jpg
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Mohammed Mubarak demanded that the showroom staff either return his money or give him the demo bike on display there

"Before Kawasaki cancelled its Navi Mumbai dealership, Chennai resident Mohammed Mubarak was probably the last person to get a bike from the showroom, that too, only because he forced the staff to give him the demo bike." Link to full article - http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumb...ident/17613176

This is absolutely horrendous on Kawasaki India's side. They are pulling a Triumph and see where it has gotten them. India might not be an important market today but it will grow the most in the coming years and bikers never forget. I had a lot of respect for Kawasaki but have lost it completely today. Is this what customers in India have to resort to file legal cases and run from pillar to post? All this after paying 2x or 3x international prices for these products? As someone rightly mentioned the sum of 1cr would be hardly anything for Kawasaki India, shame on them for treating their customers like this.
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