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Old 13th February 2017, 14:27   #1
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Default Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Family Approval Strategy

It has been a very difficult thing for me to work out. I am sure that many prospective buyers are stuck at this stage. Hence, here goes my small guide about how to convince your family.
~~~~~~~~~~

Let us first list down the most frequent and difficult to handle objections.

1. It serves no real purpose.
2. It is prohibitively expensive for something bought just for the fun of it.
3. It is dangerous. People die every week riding superbikes.
4. It will cause disruptions our low profile sober lifestyle and attract undue attention to our family.
5. Friends and relatives will envy and hence bad things will happen to us (Nazar Lag jana)
6. It’s ok for you as a grown up but the kids in the house will develop a very skewed idea about our social and financial position.
7. We do not have enclosed parking space to protect it from fidgeting of kids in the building, neighbourhood or society.
8. Maintenance is not available and is very expensive. Mileage is extremely low and petrol prices are rising.


None of the above objections are without merit. Each one is true to the core and as per my discovery, there is no logical approach to refute any of these. Hence, it needs to be understood once and for all that logical approach or arguments will NEVER take you there, it will only make the objections stronger with more research done by family folks. Believe me, the internet is on their side. We need a large campaign here which needs to run at least one full year, three to be sure.

The list of objections noted above can be somewhat different for each family, however, the top 3 points (purpose, price and safety) will be there for each and every family. So, the first order of the day is to find out the objections and list them out to know what we are dealing with. This will be a somewhat subjective list, but that is ok for now.

Our ultimate goal here is to make family people think that superbike is a better option than a family sedan for you. For practical purposes and everyday usage. However ridiculous that may sound, that's what we need to achieve. You may crush the opposition and buy it because you got the money, but it’s no fun if family does not approve of it. On the other hand, if you can somehow feed them on the idea, it will not just be a more rewarding ownership experience, you will be amazed to see unexpected support flowing in your lap from all directions. You will need this support, every drop of it.

Why benchmark with the sedan? Because of price. Superbike pricing is comparable to family sedans. For most families, value of superbike will be judged ONLY by its price. We are people who are compelled to juice out every drop of value from every buck that we earn. It’s a way of life. Superbike is something exactly opposite of it. Hence, we will have to win against the value proposition of a sedan.

While it will be very daunting to begin with, but it will later become our advantage. So, slide every member of objection party into the price ring. People will think that the money is undoable and hence they will base all their objections on money. It is good for us. We need to concentrate objections into one pot and then solve it in one clean sweep.

Anyone with a stable job with around 8 - 10 lacs p.a income can make it happen. A superbike is financed with pretty much the same structure as a sedan loan. For most members and visitors of this forum, this might not be far out of reach.

For establishing purpose, one must survey long and hard. Traffic congestion and parking space necessity are they only default upsides for super bikes. These are truly useless reasons and will be squashed. So, you need to find a unique purpose. Be it touring, bling, higher status among office peers - it’s your choice. But remember, you are not looking for a purpose for yourself. You already have it and it will not impress your family. Find out what they despise about travelling or anything else and spin your agenda there. If anyone among your in-laws or neighbors have purchased a premium vehicle recently, you are in luck. Ladies normally respond quite enthusiastically to "we got better vehicle" plans. Research on this and keep testing your ideas.

Now, second item on our list is safety. Safety will be the thing to come up to the top when you have sorted out the money. So, do not go about sorting out the money first, or keep it very discreet while you make your clandestine arrangements for a safety campaign. We will need the money objection later.

It is a fact that the super bikes have the most advanced safety features with their superior disc brakes, ABS, traction control, fat tires etc. Riding gears add to them suitably to enhance rider safety standards even higher. But, this is a difficult sell, especially because of a death every other week. Most of them are very high profile and widely covered in media.

We have to establish that the accidents and unfortunate demise of superbike riders are not because of the bikes but the riders themselves. To make this happen, keep learning about accidents on normal bikes and dig out the reasons behind them. Catalog the ones which were caused by riders’ wrong judgement or failures of the machines. We need these. Leave out the ones where things happened due to bad luck, like someone getting hit from behind while stopped at a signal. These damage our argument and hence must be avoided. Sometimes, family members will come up with anecdotes where unfortunate events happened due to bad luck. Severely downplay them and keep saying that it's a rider fault or machine fault. You have to be persuasive here. You must spin every accident story and prove that a superbike would have avoided it.

Keep discussing these at home whenever you get a chance. Slowly build it a habit to discuss only this topic whenever someone talks to you (members of the objection party or otherwise). State the cause of the normal bike accident and then state how a superbike safety features would easily avoid it. This must be relentlessly done for one year or more, at the very least six months. It is a test of your endurance and you must not fail.

Maintaining the topic of superbike safety as THE TOPIC at home will achieve two purposes for us. One, people will slowly start to believe you (keep in mind, never argue on this, just state your story and move on to next - arguments will damage our plan) and two, you will successfully tire them out of this very critical topic when our campaign reaches the crescendo. Remember, you can't never overdo it. Everyone who talks to you will eventually gather up on the other side. So, spare nobody. If you are talking, bike accident is the topic - be it doodhwala, istriwala, father-in-law, wife's friends from office (this is an important focus group, we will see why later), whoever. Always talk about how an immature or negligent rider on an incompetent machine landed himself into trouble. Always close your story with how that particular event could be avoided if the rider was more circumspect, his bike more capable and above all if he was wearing good gear.

After 6-7 months of this, you will start noticing gradual changes in people's general opinion about superbike. Do not stop it just yet and keep at it for at least one full year. You will know that your campaign is taking effect when people start coming out with their own stories which are aligned to your objective and not the opposite of it. The other big (and more frequent) signal is that they will just ask you to shut up on this and talk about something else. As per common Indian mentality, nothing is more important to your family than your safety. If they say that they don't want to hear about it anymore, it means, they are convinced that your safety is not endangered.


While your safety campaign is active, shortlist which bike you want. Choices are truly mind blowing and pretty much everything is available in India. Choices are better if you are in Mumbai, Delhi or Bangalore. But other metros also offer decent options.

The Harleys start from around 7 lacs. Nakeds start around 9-10 lacs. Literbikes and hyperbikes start around 15. Select two bikes, the one you truly want and a decoy bike which is priced significantly higher than the one you want but have lesser safety equipment.

With your safety campaign solidly entrenched with at least six months behind it, it is now time to start pitching. As per your judgement of your family member's beliefs and preferences, get posters for the decoy model and put up in prominent positions in your house. Choice would vary widely depending on the aesthetic senses of your family members. To progress our agenda, we need the decoy bike to be significantly more expensive, weaker on safety features and it must look hideous to your folks (especially your wife). There are many suitable models which would fall in this category.

At the initial stage, it could be wiser to put forward Honda bikes and stay clear of the more aggressive natured motorcycles. If your folks read up on the internet, they will find comforting words like uninteresting, bland, boring, laid back etc. There is another great advantage of Honda - the CBR family looks pretty much the same - 150cc or 1000cc. With the poster in your house and hundreds of CBR150 on the road, a mental bridge will form between the normal and super bike.

Touring bikes like Triumph Tiger, Kawasaki Versys, Ducati Multistrada, Harley Davidson Heritage etc. can also be selected for the decoy. These look very big, strong and robust. By the looks of it, they do not appear to be very fast. But for Kawasaki, all these are pretty expensive. If you can get a poster which shows the price of the model, even better. Do a little research and select the bike with the most snatchy throttle, this will help us later while doing test rides.

You will need the friends of your wife to approve of your choice and dismiss your decoy bike. Hence, research on this thoroughly and make a careful selection. If in case your preferred bike (not the decoy, the one you really want) is not a looker and not appreciated among female folks, this will be a problem later. Your wife must feel good while telling her friends about it. You may need to make adjustments to your choice so that this happens.

Once you get your decoy selected and postered, it is now time to arrange the money. If money arrangements seem to need some more time, keep your safety campaign alive till the money is arranged. Special note, longer the safety campaign, easier it will be to mobilize support. So, do not get exasperated and keep at it. This is also a good time to start connecting safety features of the poster bike with its price. Our objective here is to convince people that the high price is for safety features only. If you have diligently run the safety campaign, this step will be fairly easy. Now at this stage, you should start mixing other good things about the decoy motorcycle in your safety related talks. Try to find out good things that might impress your family members. If your family members are not too technically inclined, keep the discussion limited to looks and sound. These are distinctive features of superbikes and normally people appreciate them.

Once you got your money arranged, it is now time to go for the kill. Propose buying the postered motorcycle and (very carefully) monitor the reactions. We want everyone to say that it is too expensive. Do not pivot yet and keep pitching this motorcycle for at least a month or more. Let everyone come out with their objections. If we have done it right so far, all serious objections will be related to price, except for your wife. Her biggest objection at this point should be about the looks. If she is still worried about safety or something else, take a step back and run the safety campaign for some more time. DO NOT override your wife's concerns. She reserves the right to raise objection and kill your plan even after you have gotten your bike home. She will do it unless she is fully on board. Do not underestimate the delicate nature of this, it needs to be taken care of properly.

Assuming that the objections are now concentrated on price and looks, propose your real choice and show them the lesser price, more safety and much better looks compared to the one hanging on the wall. At this point, your pitch should be that you want the poster bike but a much better option with better safety exists at a lower price point. So, keeping your families concerns about safety and expense in mind, you are considering to settle for the low priced model.

You will be astonished to see how everyone will gradually start nodding your way.

Now you are quite near the goalpost, so do not make any careless mistake here. You still have the test ride to work out. Select a showroom with good people. If you feel unsure, select a different showroom, even if it is in a different city. Talk to the showroom people and tell them that you need your wife / parents/ siblings convinced on safety feature and nothing else. Make it clear to them that you do not want any mention of high speed at all. Even if your folks ask, they should say that these bikes can do high speeds only in racing track. On normal roads, these just make more noise and keep you safer. Once you get on the level with showroom people, schedule the test ride. If you are a novice to superbikes (which is the likely case), ask a showroom rider to take your wife on pillion and ride really really slow in a controlled manner. You should not take your wife on your pillion yourself. There will be a few jerks and stalls, which will scare your wife. If she insists, ride in first gear by careful clutch slipping. Unless your wife is a rider herself (in which case this strategy will fail altogether as she will call your bluffs much earlier), she won’t understand your foul play. Remember, if you got your money worked out, all that remains is to establish safety.

Once you see your wife sitting casually on the pillion of a moving superbike and she is not holding onto anything, you are through. If she holds the grab rails or riders shoulders tightly, she is still scared and will veto your campaign.

You might also consider a phony test ride on a bike with snatchy throttle. Believe me, nothing scares the pillion more than a snatchy throttle. To further enhance the effect, jam the front disc brakes at 15-20 kmph speed. These bikes stop on a dime and delivers an extremely strong jolt of instability to the pillion.

After this, take her to the real test ride, which will be smooth and slow. Make no mistake, you are now placing your actual bike for the most important examination, you got one chance at it. If you mess it up, your whole hard work might go down the drain with very little possibility of reviving the campaign.

After the test ride (assuming it achieved its objective), talk to showroom people for pricing. They should state a higher price to begin with and then offer the discount (which you have negotiated during your earlier secret visits or over phone/email). Allow your wife to lead the bargain, women love to do this.
The final figure must be substantially lower than what you have so far pitched.

You should get the approval now.

Last edited by noopster : 16th February 2017 at 12:21. Reason: Please check PM
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Old 13th February 2017, 14:40   #2
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Default Re: Red Ducati Monster 821 - Initial ownership report

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
[b]
The final figure must be substantially lower than what you have so far pitched.

You should get the approval now.
Wow what a post. I hope your wife does not read this or she will know how you got the approval.

This is good. Thanks - might try this approach.
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Old 13th February 2017, 15:17   #3
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Default Re: Red Ducati Monster 821 - Initial ownership report

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Family Approval Strategy

It has been a very difficult hing for me to work out. I am sure that many prospective buyers are stuck at this stage. Hence, here goes my small guide about how to convince your family.
~~~~~~~~~~

.
This needs to be moved to its own thread. Fantastic work.

The way I did things were a little more brutal.

The only friend who was going to join me to get the bike on D day was told about it the previous evening.

My brother came down to the parking lot and was stunned to see a big black "thing" next to his car. That was how he found out.

I rode down to see my folks a few days later, ofcourse they had no idea I was on a motorbike. They were for a day. "It looks like batmobile"!

Once the initial hoopla and dramatics die down, things usually get back to normal.
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Old 13th February 2017, 18:24   #4
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Default Re: Red Ducati Monster 821 - Initial ownership report

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Originally Posted by manson View Post
Let them know you want a superbike. Nobody really needs one anyway
That is absolutely correct, technically. The real scene is that in a typical middle class household, we are always falling short of satisfying our needs. There is little scope of getting what we want. So, unless one can project this as an absolutely life and death non negotiable need, there is little hope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Great write up Sen.. One question though -- did Ducati folks quote a higher price first and gave you the "discount" on bargaining??
I might get killed, at least severely injured because of this post. But to the benefit of the community, I will selflessly take the plunge.


This is the screenshot of the webpage used for pricing discussion in our family during initial stages. The discussions often did not last more than a few minutes as this price is too high and ducati doesn't even give 1 Rupee discount ever.

Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!-1200r.jpg


Mid December, suddenly out of nowhere, I got a call from Ducati showroom. I don't know why they called me as I have never inquired with them before. Maybe some of my whatsapp friends who know about my interest in this bike forwarded my number to ducati showroom. Anyway, the showroom people said that due to 90 years celebration of Ducati, they are giving HUGE discount on the monster. It is there on their website. See below.
Only catch is that these bikes do not come with a red color plastic cover down below. My wife did not find any reason to consider that as a deal breaker.

Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!-821.jpg

I also conveyed to my family members that this is only for 90 bikes. Even if sales of these bikes are slow, still that's not a stock which will last forever.

I had some talks with ducati salesperson and "planned" a test ride. After the very successful test ride, my wife began the pricing discussion. After a while, she felt that due to her awesome negotiation skills, they gave another 1 lac discount. As they do not give discount as a standard policy, they will call it Road Support.

Now, who can refuse a discount of almost 20 lacs on a bike worth 30 lacs?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
Wow what a post. I hope your wife does not read this or she will know how you got the approval.

This is good. Thanks - might try this approach.
Thanks man. I hope so too. She does not really visit team bhp, so I think I am cool here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I can't believe you remember!

The Versys was an even more subdued delivery experience. Went with one friend, got the bike, almost dropped it, got back home. No gift, no cake, no key chain even, no hoopla.

Sen, great to reconnect back again. There's some joy in recalling some of our early parenting days together
It is indeed. It feels really nice that we both have held upon our ways with automobiles for over a decade. We will have to catch up once I summon the courage to ride down to Bangalore.
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Old 13th February 2017, 19:26   #5
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Default Re: Red Ducati Monster 821 - Initial ownership report

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post

Now, who can refuse a discount of almost 20 lacs on a bike worth 30 lacs?!
Hats off to you for coming up with such innovative ideas to convince the family. Necessity is the mother of all inventions! Sometimes, those words feels so true.

Iím almost sailing in the same boat, albeit not for a super bike, but to plonk money to get a RE Continental GT. Endurance is the key here, with patience, trying to field all the questions and arguments that comes up from the concerned family members.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:40   #6
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Default Re: Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Thanks for sharing! Your wonderful post deserves its own thread. Moved & adding to the homepage.

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
This needs to be moved to its own thread. Fantastic work.
Thanks for requesting the same via a reported post .
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:49   #7
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Great ideas! I'm going to bookmark this and will use it in future. Definitely will come in handy.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:37   #8
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Default Re: Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Hahahahah, excellent and a much needed guide for us hapless Men!

MODS - Is there a way to prevent this thread from being read by women-folk? This comment is not intended to be misogynistic, but only intended to protect us.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:42   #9
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Default Re: Red Ducati Monster 821 - Initial ownership report

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I might get killed, at least severely injured because of this post. But to the benefit of the community, I will selflessly take the plunge.
@sen2009: smart move man!

Well with my home loan commitments, and being married, I just can't event think about this now! I'm thinking of jumping jobs just to make some more money for my sbk emi.

So if anyone knows of any PL/SQL / database job opening or willing to employ me part-time do give a shout-out
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:42   #10
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Default Re: Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Thanks Red Liner and GTO. I am really happy that my post could be helpful for readers. Should anyone need any further insight or elaboration on any section, I will only be too happy to help.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:21   #11
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Default Re: Red Ducati Monster 821 - Initial ownership report

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
This is the screenshot of the webpage used for pricing discussion in our family during initial stages. The discussions often did not last more than a few minutes as this price is too high .....
If this is not your desired bike, then a good place to start ! Show a lot of interest in something priced well above the bike you really want. Then move around to other models, slowly reducing the price. Shortlist your desired bike & 1 other. Go for the kill !
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Old 14th February 2017, 13:53   #12
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Default Re: Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Well in my case there are only two things that have ever worked

1. Just Buy it and surprise, they will never be able to say anything
2. crack a deal with your wife that you will buy her something that she dreams of and in return she will buy you a bike, that's gets them involved even if they do not pay anything towards it, you can boast that she bought it and in her life she will never say anything against it.. ever !!!
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Old 14th February 2017, 14:05   #13
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Man, that was a work of pure genius!.
You can give Chanakya or Sun Tzu a run for their money.

It made a very enthralling and amusing read. I am sure most of us who have superbikes have done, parts of what you've described in great detail.

I am sure if someone follows this advice, he will have no trouble in getting the bike he wants approved from the home department.

Well done.

Cheerio.
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Old 14th February 2017, 14:27   #14
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Default Re: Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
Wow what a post. I hope your wife does not read this or she will know how you got the approval.

This is good. Thanks - might try this approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
This needs to be moved to its own thread. Fantastic work.

The way I did things were a little more brutal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepakMenon View Post
Well in my case there are only two things that have ever worked

1. Just Buy it and surprise, they will never be able to say anything
2. crack a deal with your wife
Awesome thread!

Well the brute approach ^ is what i did for Striple. I had given up riding for almost a decade then one day i walked into Triumph showroom to deliver a Bonny for a close friend. Keeda took over for a test ride and decided to book the Striple. So i went with the surprise element of booking the bike and showing the receipt at home, when i was preparing to arrange the finance. Moment i showed that finance was cheaper than a car, the economic argument was laid to rest and bike was brought home.

Next time when i decided to upgrade to Tiger (booked new and later found out a second hand deal for much cheaper price), the same economic argument worked in favor for me! Wife offered loan at similar interest rate for the pre-owned bike, but to be paid in one year instead of taking a larger loan burden for 4 years. She satisfied her need to generate income from savings, and i fulfilled the need to buy a bigger bike.

Hope this helps lol
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Old 14th February 2017, 14:30   #15
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Default Re: Advice: Getting family approval for a Superbike!

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
If this is not your desired bike, then a good place to start ! Show a lot of interest in something priced well above the bike you really want. Then move around to other models, slowly reducing the price. Shortlist your desired bike & 1 other. Go for the kill !
That is pretty much what is this in short. For me it was a lucky thing that 1200R looked just exactly the same to untrained eyes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepakMenon View Post
Well in my case there are only two things that have ever worked

1. Just Buy it and surprise, they will never be able to say anything
2. crack a deal with your wife that you will buy her something that she dreams of and in return she will buy you a bike, that's gets them involved even if they do not pay anything towards it, you can boast that she bought it and in her life she will never say anything against it.. ever !!!
This is also a very good strategy, in fact it will produce desirable result much quicker. Only thing is that there must not be too many members in the oppositions.
In a typical middle class family like ours, a lot of people hold sway - like close friends, relatives, in laws, long time neighbors. It is impossible to buy everyone off. But if that was possible, one could cut to the chase real quick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog View Post

Man, that was a work of pure genius!.
You can give Chanakya or Sun Tzu a run for their money.

It made a very enthralling and amusing read. I am sure most of us who have superbikes have done, parts of what you've described in great detail.

I am sure if someone follows this advice, he will have no trouble in getting the bike he wants approved from the home department.

Well done.

Cheerio.
Thanks man for your kind words. Looking back at it, I have been chasing it for a very long time. Not chanakya, but I did read up the Art of war somewhere along the line, albeit in a different context. I have deployed all my wisdom and cunning at some point or the other.

Now that this phase is over and I can look back at it with a satisfactory grin on my face, this part of my journey has also been an entertaining experience.
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