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Old 17th February 2017, 02:16   #16
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Default re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

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Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
The first service was to be around 1000 kms +/-. The second service was at 6000 kms post first service or 7200 kms and at that time I was in Assam and the service stations were closed that weekend. I was planning to get the service done once I reached Assam again after visiting Tripura and Mizoram but issue occured while I was on way from Mizoram.
Just so that there is no misunderstanding, what you are saying is that you skipped the second service altogether?
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Old 17th February 2017, 04:43   #17
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Default re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

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Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
The first service was to be around 1000 kms +/-. The second service was at 6000 kms post first service or 7200 kms
Minor correction.

First service is before 1000 kms, second service before 6000kms and third before 12000. It is clearly mentioned as 6*1000 kms for second service, and not 6000 kms after the first service.

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Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
Just so that there is no misunderstanding, what you are saying is that you skipped the second service altogether?
Looks like it was overshot by 3200 kms. But there is no engine oil change in there. Second service looks to be a minor one.

So it shouldn't really matter for this issue.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 17th February 2017 at 04:47.
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Old 17th February 2017, 10:42   #18
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Default re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers-img_20170217_102219.jpg

Just read the owner's manual. So the first service was overshot by 149 kms, and the second service by 3200 kms.

Credit where it's due, I feel Kawasaki did the right thing by honouring warranty even though technically the warranty was void already. We have seen multiple cases from major car manufacturers on the forum where the warranty was rejected for the same reason.

Clutch is not a part covered under warranty either, as mentioned in the manual above. But looks like they honoured warranty.

That said, that is no consolation for the unresponsive attitude of the dealers. The major issue with the whole setup in my opinion is the transfer of liability between Bajaj and Kawasaki regaeding the ownership of bikes below 800cc. Hopefully, things get sorted soon with the new service setup in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
And while I am typing this I got a news that one other Versys owner has a problem with the Throttle Assembly. (The odometer on his bike is about 12,000+
Like this issue which was again not a manufacturing defect, but an overconfident service technician fiddling with it when it was not required as per manual. However, they seem to be taking ownership of repairing it, but that is no excuse to have caused it in the first place!

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Originally Posted by cjt2012 View Post
Like I said in my earlier post, I think a legal proceeding with the consumer court seems to be a way ahead
Legal proceedings might turn out to be rather long and risky affair with the above warranty disclaimers in place. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment. Any lawyers around to help?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 17th February 2017 at 10:57.
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:49   #19
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Yes, after going through Crazy Drivers post , It may seem that you don't have much of a legal case as there have been lapses on the part of bikerzindia. No doubt legal cases are Long drawn and tedious, however if it can be proven that the failure of the clutch is a manufacturing defect of the part involved, because let's not forget that on opening up the clutch bell the second time also after the initial repair in Delhi it was found that the clutch was excessively worn out, and also note that at no time was the engine without oil albeit not changed at the prescribed interval.

Old oil can cause some wear but not outright failure; let's also not forget that the Versys is designed to be a tourer which will entail Long rides and at times not within reach of an ASC. It is not acceptable to have the bike go bust just because oil was not changed on time.

So at the end of the day if Kawasaki is able to investigate the issue in larger public interest and customers satisfaction it would be the ideal situation, but to bell the cat legal recourse may be the only way. Ghee seedhi ungli se nahi nikalti to ungli tedhi karni padeghi.

Last edited by GTO : 17th February 2017 at 15:46. Reason: Language, punctuation etc.
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:49   #20
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Default re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Really sorry to hear about your experience with the Versys 650. Normally Kawasaki's are very reliable motorcycles and nothing should go wrong with them. Your bike seems to be a faulty one and Kawasaki should have diagnosed and rectified and provided you with a reasonable explanation on the clutch failure. You have paid for the motorcycle and definitely deserve an explanation on what went wrong and what was replaced.

First it was rogue dealers who ran away with customers money. Then the Kawasaki - KTM/Bajaj split which left Versys (and under 800cc) owners hanging for their service and spares. And now it's a bike with a clutch failure with no explanation given to its owner.

Wishing you all the best and hope things work out well Pradush.

Looking at all these I am happy I made the right decision not to pick the Versys now. I would have been due for a first service without a service center and spares.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:46   #21
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Default Re: Dream turns Horror-Thanks to India Kawasaki Motors & Bajaj Auto Limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Just read the owner's manual. So the first service was overshot by 149 kms, and the second service by 3200 kms.

Credit where it's due, I feel Kawasaki did the right thing by honouring warranty even though technically the warranty was void already. We have seen multiple cases from major car manufacturers on the forum where the warranty was rejected for the same reason.

Clutch is not a part covered under warranty either, as mentioned in the manual above. But looks like they honoured warranty.

That said, that is no consolation for the unresponsive attitude of the dealers. The major issue with the whole setup in my opinion is the transfer of liability between Bajaj and Kawasaki regaeding the ownership of bikes below 800cc. Hopefully, things get sorted soon with the new service setup in place.



Like this issue which was again not a manufacturing defect, but an overconfident service technician fiddling with it when it was not required as per manual. However, they seem to be taking ownership of repairing it, but that is no excuse to have caused it in the first place!



Legal proceedings might turn out to be rather long and risky affair with the above warranty disclaimers in place. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment. Any lawyers around to help?
With due respect, the versys is not a city bike where they can say you overshot your service by 149 kms so we dishonor your warranty.

And as per manual, it says normal wear and tear on clutch plates not seizure of the bike caused by a jammed clutch assembly. (I am not a technically sound person here) Moreover the technician from Delhi agreed on telephone that they had found a faulty part else they would have straight away refused the warranty claim but did not want to be on record. They first of all did not change it under warranty readily. I asked them to show that it was my fault and i would pay for it. (Is that why they are unwilling to share the details?) So no credits there.

And how would they want to explain the same problem occurring again in 3000 odd Kms?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cjt2012 View Post
Yes, after going thru crazy Drivers post , It may seem that you don't have much of a legal case as there have been lapses on the part of bikerzindia. No doubt legal cases are Long drawn and tedious, however if it can be proven that the failure of the clutch is a manufacturing defect of the part involved, cause let's not forget that on opening up the clutch bell the second time also after the initial repair in Delhi it was found that the clutch was excessively worn out, and also note that at no time was the engine without oil albeit not changed at the prescribed interval, old oil can cause some wear but not outright failure; let's also not forget that the versys is designed to be a tourer which will entail Long rides and at times not within reach of an ASC, it is not acceptable to have the bike go bust just because oil was not changed on time.
So at the end of the day if Kawasaki is able to investigate the issue in larger public interest and customers satisfaction it would be the ideal situation, but to bell the cat legal recourse may be the only way. Ghee seedhi ungli se nahi nikalti to ungli tedhi karni padeghi.
I would like to reiterate that the oil change interval is 12,000 kms in Versys and not 6,000 kms.

Yesterday night I got a call from the SVC that they have fixed my bike again under warranty. But the problem again is that they do not want to share any details as to what and how it went wrong. And neither they can assure me or certify that similar mechanical failure will not happen again before warranty ends. The want me to trust that they have fixed the issue same way as I trusted the Delhi ASC had fixed the issue.

I do not want a second accident on this bike because of a mechanical failure which can be fatal too.
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Old 17th February 2017, 16:41   #22
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Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Pradosh, Really sorry to hear your ownership experience. I am also owner of Ninja650 from last 3.5 years and have been getting my regular service done at KirtiNagar service station. I can totally relate to your experience, the so call superbike technician at service station are 1 week trained pulsar technicians who I am sure are not even capable of fixing a smaller bike. Kawasaki charges huge amount of money on services and quality you get at the service centers are pathetic. I can get my car serviced at less cost then bike.

Whats the point of getting so many bike in the market when you can't have enough capable technicians to service them. My personal experience with Triumph Delhi has been good, they have qualified and quality technician who can understand your problem and would at the same time do quality job.

You should surely sue Kawasaki for the defective product you have got.
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Old 17th February 2017, 20:26   #23
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Pradosh it's great that you are highlighting the issues faced by you. I intend to join you in doing so with a thread of my own shortly

With due respect to other members who feel differently - the issue here is the lackadaisical attitude kawasaki displays towards its customers

And I can vouch for this - My 40 day old Versys with 3200 kms on the clock has had the forward upper fork clamp otherwise known as the T clamp or Triple clamp crack into 2

Now that is not something you expect to happen to a 8 lakhs bike and No my rims shoes no sign of any impact damage

In my case what pisses me off is that even 2 weeks later not one person in the svc upto the Mumbai & Maharashtra Service had can tell me when I will be blessed with the replacement part.

Yes they are doing the replacement under warranty - that's the only silver lining
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Old 17th February 2017, 21:48   #24
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Pradosh , Glad to hear that your bike has been repaired by the ASC under warranty, hope the issue is settled and you have trouble free motoring.
Can I suggest that you find a competent Mechanic who has good experience and a well appointed garage, I am pretty sure a city like Bangalore should have one, perhaps some TBHP members can lead you in that direction, what I am coming to is this, perhaps there is a way to continuously monitor the internals of the engine using an endoscope ( some well appointed garages have it)and taking small oil samples to see debris at frequent intervals say every 4 to 500km ( and of course topping up the oil) and check oil Colour,this should give you an early warning if things are going south again. Private garages give you the freedom to see the work that is happening right in front of you.
As for me I ride a 2011 Suzuki Bandit 1250 a CBU bike bought from Swargate Suzuki Pune,with the exception of the first 2
services all the other services have been done by me personally simply because I enjoy working on my bike and I am pretty hands on with sufficiently good knowledge of the machine (additionally I have the factory workshop manual as well which I read of the relevant section before I work on something ) . So far I have not required anything other than consumables like oil filter, air filter , spark plugs , brake pads ,coolant change,a set of new tyres and feeler gauge for setting the tappet clearances. For my bike is out of warranty Long ago.
What I mean to say is having a second opinion from a competent garage dealing with superbikes regularly does help, and if you are into it getting your hand dirty with the bike is also fulfilling experience.
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Old 17th February 2017, 21:54   #25
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Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Hey man,

I'm so sorry to hear what happened with the bike. It must have been a real dampener to such an amazing trip. Look forward to a trip log as well. Looks like you have a lemon in the form of clutch assembly which isn't getting better. It could be worse, though, Triumph took almost 6 months to get my bike ready. And I waited for a year to get an accessory cowl for my bike. These things happen because the Indian market just doesn't have the volume yet for these brands to keep stock and then with chalta hai attitude just spoil customer faith in the brand.

I definitely think you should push for a replacement bike or full rectification of any clutch related issues. Please do document everything and have everything in writing. Let's hope Kawasaki reaches out and does the right thing.
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Old 17th February 2017, 22:52   #26
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Default Re: Dream turns Horror-Thanks to India Kawasaki Motors & Bajaj Auto Limited

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Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
With due respect, the versys is not a city bike where they can say you overshot your service by 149 kms so we dishonor your warranty. .
Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is questioning your late first service but your skipping the second service completely. It is a little difficult to believe that between the point the service was due at 7200 km to the point of your crash around 12,000km (a span of around 5000km) you couldn't find a single service center.

There is no doubt that there is something wrong with your bike, but I still think it is decent of Kawasaki to honor the warranty. Many brands in India would not have done the same.

I personally have found Kawasaki service in India and Bangalore especially to be reasonably good, especially compared to my other experiences with HD and Ducati. I'm not sure how the Bajaj / KTM service centers are for the bellow 800cc service.

The unfortunate reality of owning a superbike in India is that parts are rarely in stock and repairs take way to much time. My Z had a fall off the stand and damaged a few parts which the service center took around 45 days to get replacements for (and that was a reasonably fast replacement). Hopefully as number of these bikes increase so will the parts stock but in the immediate future, I don't see any of the brands keeping a big inventory of spares.

If your bike is back with you, try and get the repairs detailed in writing and see if those explanations satisfy you. If not you have only two options - sell the bike as is for an unfair loss or the more difficult option of taking the brand to consumer court. Both of which are unfair burdens on you.

Hopefully your bike is working fine now. Let us know once you ride it a bit.
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Old 18th February 2017, 03:26   #27
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Default Re: Dream turns Horror-Thanks to India Kawasaki Motors & Bajaj Auto Limited

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Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
With due respect, the versys is not a city bike where they can say you overshot your service by 149 kms so we dishonor your warranty.
149 kms for the first service is reasonable, yes. But 3200 for the second is what I doubt puts the ball in their court, in case of a legal battle.

I'm not so well versed with the superbike scenario, but car manufacturers have been known to be very strict on this front. Some examples documented in the forum below -

1. Skoda rejects a/c warranty for late 7500kms and second service (10k) intervals, for a car having issue at 53k kms-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2031713 (Skoda Non-Dealer Service Centers)
2. Honda rejects warranty due to service interval being late, although running is less-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3302873 (Pre-worshipped Honda Civic V A/T - "CeeVee")
3. Honda rejects ignition coil warranty for missing service interval due to low running-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/buying...ml#post3249045 (ARTICLE: Extended Warranties. Yes or No?)
4. Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rees-help.html (Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!)
5. Honda rejects warranty for common manufacturing defect citing missed service interval.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...what-do-2.html (Honda Refusing To Honour Warranty. What To Do?)

Hence I still feel that credit is due to Bajaj for honouring warranty. But as I said, that doesn't absolve Kawasaki of its responsibilities in the case of a manufacturing defect, which it looks like - due to the repeated failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
It is a little difficult to believe that between the point the service was due at 7200 km to the point of your crash around 12,000km (a span of around 5000km) you couldn't find a single service center.
Small correction. Service was due at 6000 kms, and the crash occurred around 9200 kms. So a span of around 3200 kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeniz View Post
Pradosh, Really sorry to hear your ownership experience. I am also owner of Ninja650 from last 3.5 years and have been getting my regular service done at KirtiNagar service station. I can totally relate to your experience, the so call superbike technician at service station are 1 week trained pulsar technicians who I am sure are not even capable of fixing a smaller bike. Kawasaki charges huge amount of money on services and quality you get at the service centers are pathetic. I can get my car serviced at less cost then bike.

Whats the point of getting so many bike in the market when you can't have enough capable technicians to service them. My personal experience with Triumph Delhi has been good, they have qualified and quality technician who can understand your problem and would at the same time do quality job.
Issue here is that Kawasaki is not even responsible for service, when it comes to bikes below 800cc. The bike is assembled, sold and serviced by Bajaj Auto Limited. Even the warranty is offered by Bajaj Auto Limited, as the India distributor for Kawasaki Heavy Industries for bikes below 800cc.

And they either have their hands full with KTMs, or are not too bothered with the small numbers that Kawasaki offers.

The skills of the same technician is charged multiple times the amount he is entitled to, when he works on KTM bikes. This shows how Bajaj is milking the Kawasaki customers, probably since they are less in number compared to KTMs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
I personally have found Kawasaki service in India and Bangalore especially to be reasonably good, especially compared to my other experiences with HD and Ducati. I'm not sure how the Bajaj / KTM service centers are for the bellow 800cc service.

The unfortunate reality of owning a superbike in India is that parts are rarely in stock and repairs take way to much time. My Z had a fall off the stand and damaged a few parts which the service center took around 45 days to get replacements for (and that was a reasonably fast replacement). Hopefully as number of these bikes increase so will the parts stock but in the immediate future, I don't see any of the brands keeping a big inventory of spares.
Hopefully the situation improves once Kawasaki takes direct control of the service for bikes below 800cc as well. But, given the small numbers in the market, turnaround time for issues will remain the same - as with other bigger bike brands as well.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 18th February 2017 at 03:47.
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Old 18th February 2017, 10:12   #28
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Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Prado : Good to see you here and I can see you are getting all the help from members with their views and inputs. I have known you now for about 6 months had have appreciated your attitude towards adventure and when you were embarking on the 29 state capitals in 30 days, I was completely taken aback as for me thought itself is scary and something I can never do in my life as it requires high levels of determination, physical and mental strength which you completed despite the Versys failing on you mid-way through this riding mission. Kudos dude !!!

Coming back to the issue, as you can see so many different minds thinking of this problem from multiple angles really bring many new aspects to the table. One such aspect is about oil change that was not done at 6000kms interval. If you see in our V group of 100+ folks, I hardly see 3-4 V riders not changing the oil at 6K interval whereas rest of us have diligently followed it and all of us have zero issues with the bike and enjoying it to the core

Even though you may contend that manual recommends that oil change has to be done at 12K interval then ask yourself a logical question of what is the need for a service at 6k kms? Will they just wash the bike, tighten the chain slack and return it?

I honestly feel every high-powered bikes running in India should change oil at 6k-7k interval maximum due to our unique dusty conditions and even at this interval the oil that comes out is simply unrecognizable. It's so black and in such a terrible shape that it feels like even the gutter will have no use for it

I note couple of other guys who missed the oil change at 6K intervals are complaining of their brakes getting hard etc.

I sincerely feel missed oil change and load on the engine/clutch during the ride could be the primary reason for the bike to fail

The other reason could be that you have gotten a "Lemon" from Kawasaki which is unlikely because lemons usually fail within the first few thousand kms and not after a decent amount on kilometers on odometer (10K+ kms)

You have 2 solutions out of this problem

Solution 1 (Easy way out) : As your bike is ready for delivery, take it back provided they explain reasons for failure and steps taken to correct it and assure you that it will not happen again ( I don't think they can do anything more than that as guaranteeing it wont happen again is not in their hands nor in Kawasaki's hands)

Solution 2 (Tough way out) : Tell the ASC (better give it in writing) clearly that you do not want the bike back and that you are going to consumer court to fight out a battle with Kawasaki to give you a new bike which may take a long time

As fellow motorcycle enthusiasts, we all can give you lot of advice here but, final decision of what steps you want to take need to come from you..

Either ways, Good luck on getting this issue resolved so you get back to doing what you do best-Embark on another crazy ride adventure again (hopefully, on your Versys)

Last edited by mobike008 : 18th February 2017 at 10:39. Reason: typos corrected
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Old 18th February 2017, 17:15   #29
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Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

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Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
the bike was then towed from Kwang Pui Mizoram to Silchar (Assam) to the KTM/Kawasaki Service Center. The technician there Mr. Hifzul had a check on the clutch assembly and told me that the clutch assembly had got fried as there was no proper supply of oil to the clutch assembly
The Versys has a wet clutch which means the clutch housing sits partly submerged in a pool of oil. When the engine is running this oil circulates around the engine and the clutch housing dips partly into this circulating oil, and oil is splashed onto the housing and in between the clutch plates. It also lubricates the bearing on which the clutch housing sits.

I seems like the clutch housing which rotates along with the engine itself jammed, causing a sudden wheel-lock and throwing you off the bike.

If the clutch failed due to oil starvation, then you can be pretty sure there are other issues waiting to surface. There could be damage to cranks/cylinders/valves/cams/gearbox etc. Do you know how much oil was remaining when the oil was drained at 9200 km? I doubt if this was measured but a conscientious technician would take this into account.

Kawasaki may recommend an oil change after every 12000 km and presumably your oil was first changed at ~1000 km which makes the oil about 8200 km old. It is perfectly fine to follow manufacturer recommended oil change intervals and 8200 is a lot less than the recommended 12000 km.

Having said that, prescribed service intervals are there for a reason. Sure, the oil would not have been changed during the 6000 km service (unless you specifically asked for and paid for it). But the oil levels would have been checked and topped up. In addition, other mechanical problems may have been identified. Riding around at high(way) speeds for long periods of time over long distances with what seems to be a low oil level could very well be the reason for the damage.

This is particularly true since your tour plan called for riding exceptionally long distances compared to any other typical owner. The kilometers build up rapidly. You must plan for and ensure services are done in time or ahead of time. So what if it was a holiday and the service center was shut? Wait another day and get the job done before you go further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
After purchasing the Versys supposedly a tourer , I started my All Indian State Capitals and Union Territories tour on 11 Sep 2016.
What do you mean supposedly a tourer? It is used as a tourer by a lot of folks. But then you could tour on a Hero CD100 and still go to all the places you went to and call it a tourer as well.

It may be sold as a 'tourer' but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of getting the service done within the recommended interval. It certainly doesn't mean you can skip the recommended service interval by over 50% of the prescribed distance. It doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of getting the bike serviced in time as recommended. Consider yourself lucky that Kawasaki is honoring the warranty despite you violating the terms of the warranty.

Also, when your vehicle has a serious issue, you need to follow up regularly, make visits and check on progress. If you drop the bike off and expect work to be done in the overloaded KTM+Kawasaki service centers with overworked, mechanics who are expected to work on KTMs and Kawasakis simultaneously with most parts not being available most of the time?

By the time the parts arrive the motorcycle will be mostly forgotten and the pressures of day-to-day work and targets will put your bike under a sheet of dust. It ain't gonna happen unless the Service Manager or Technician is well known to you or is escalated. I'm not saying this is right, but sadly it is reality.

Also, if the engine oil was in fact low there could have been a seizure within the cylinder that could also cause a wheel-lock. Have your bike checked for this as well.

I'm sorry if my words sound harsh. I have tried to be matter of fact given the information you presented. I do hope your problems are resolved early and wish you many kilometers and years of pleasure astride your Versys.
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Old 19th February 2017, 09:12   #30
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Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

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Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
Another horrible after sales service incident. I hope it gets solved to your satisfaction soon.

Just out of curiosity, you took the bike for a long tour just a month after delivery. Did you follow the correct run in procedure ? Did you get the first, second and so on services done during your trip ? Did you check with the SC that did these services if everything is OK ?

No questioning your competency but I guess this information is semi important in your case and you havent given details on this
Running in the new bike is not as important as it sounds in today's time. The treatment this particular bike has got from him is totally right, bikes need not be baby sit. This I've come to know after breaking in 4 times new bikes on different styles, and it has least effect on long term performance.
This seems to be a clear case of manufacturing defect coupled with utterly incompetent service network.
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