Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes > Superbikes & Imports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th February 2017, 09:40   #31
BHPian
 
sriramv.iyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 799
Thanked: 609 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by airfoil View Post


Also, when your vehicle has a serious issue, you need to follow up regularly, make visits and check on progress. If you drop the bike off and expect work to be done in the overloaded KTM+Kawasaki service centers with overworked, mechanics who are expected to work on KTMs and Kawasakis simultaneously with most parts not being available most of the time?

By the time the parts arrive the motorcycle will be mostly forgotten and the pressures of day-to-day work and targets will put your bike under a sheet of dust. It ain't gonna happen unless the Service Manager or Technician is well known to you or is escalated. I'm not saying this is right, but sadly it is reality.
So, one buys a bike that costs more than cars, then he'll have to waste his time following up, emailing, calling the service center?

That may be the reality, but worse is to consider it as acceptable and tolerate it.
sriramv.iyer is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2017, 11:20   #32
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,397
Thanked: 14,125 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer View Post
So, one buys a bike that costs more than cars, then he'll have to waste his time following up, emailing, calling the service center?

That may be the reality, but worse is to consider it as acceptable and tolerate it.
There are less than 200 Versys bikes sold over the last year. It's only reasonable to expect that service centers would only have the regular spares available for service and common issues. Clutch assembly failure is extremely rare scenario and parts would have to be ordered. This would be true for any of the bigger bikes in India, because none of the brands can afford to keep an inventory of all costly parts in a market that sells such small numbers. Even parts like tyres are an extreme pain to order in the case of the extremely rare bikes like the BMW Motorrads, high end Harleys etc.

Versys has sold in better numbers than others and hence the easier scenario, as parts would at least be available centrally. The same for a rarer bike like the ZX10R would need to be ordered from the international market. Things get even worse when the brand itself is rare. Horrible if the brand is rare internationally as well.

Unless the sales numbers improve, we Indians have only two ways to go about it - Either buy and live with this scenario. Or don't buy at all. But if we don't buy, the situation will never improve and we continue to remain the losers. For faster service and expectation of having every spare available locally, we need to stick to more common brands like Royal Enfield or even KTMs. And are not ready for the bigger bikes yet, irrespective of brands!

The fact is - the market is not ready for bigger bikes yet, and whoever is still going for it, me included, have jumped in knowing the risks that come along with it.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 19th February 2017 at 11:48.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2017, 12:19   #33
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 15
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravanekar View Post
Running in the new bike is not as important as it sounds in today's time. The treatment this particular bike has got from him is totally right, bikes need not be baby sit. This I've come to know after breaking in 4 times new bikes on different styles, and it has least effect on long term performance.
This seems to be a clear case of manufacturing defect coupled with utterly incompetent service network.
I stand corrected. It seems other bhpians have rightly pointed out regarding the oil change inadequacy. However with respect to breaking in I still maintain that modem bikes need not be baby sit at all, just make sure to avoid abuse that's all. Thanks all.
gauravanekar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2017, 17:55   #34
BHPian
 
airfoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 305
Thanked: 65 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer View Post
So, one buys a bike that costs more than cars, then he'll have to waste his time following up, emailing, calling the service center?

That may be the reality, but worse is to consider it as acceptable and tolerate it.
What you say is absolutely true.

What recourse is available though? Parts such as the clutch housing do not wear out frequently and will almost certainly not be in stock at the dealer level. Screaming yourself hoarse is a waste of time, escalating must be done at the right time - once at the very start and once more if the parts don't arrive on time. And this is only for the parts that have been ordered, what happens once the engine is opened up and some other relatively rare parts are needed?

Either we pay premium prices for not so premium motorcycles and enjoy them with such shortcomings while doing our best give them the Tender Loving Care they need or just stay away from the Superbike segment altogether.

There is some improvement in the offing with Kawasaki splitting away from the Bajaj/KTM combine for sales and service. That will give Kawasakis more focus while hopefully improving things for KTMs as well. I believe Kawasaki going it alone isn't exactly a great thing though. Bajaj is better than most other motorcycle manufacturers when it comes to reach and spare part availability and it's exit will be felt.

But things aren't going to get much better, unless the bike in question sells in large enough numbers to justify parts being stocked not only at the local dealer level but also at the India factory where they are assembled, without needing to import from the country of actual manufacture.

Last edited by airfoil : 19th February 2017 at 17:57.
airfoil is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2017, 20:26   #35
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 226
Thanked: 211 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer View Post
That may be the reality, but worse is to consider it as acceptable and tolerate it.
Unfortunately that is the reality and if you are unable to accept it, best option is not to buy one of these machines to begin with. It is the case not only with superbikes, but with the high end car service as well. I can attest to both out of personal experience.

Almost all superbike owners have gone into this situation with their eyes open as to the realities of part availability. If you want to keep fighting it and playing the victim card - you are only setting yourself up for never ending frustration.

I believe as the numbers of the bikes increase, part availability will improve. I already see better availability of parts for bikes like the V650 over the bigger bikes.

I don't think anyone has said the current situation is acceptable but you do have to tolerate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravanekar View Post
However with respect to breaking in I still maintain that modem bikes need not be baby sit at all, just make sure to avoid abuse that's all. Thanks all.
While the traditional form of babying the engine is no longer required. A run in period on these high performance engines is still important.

Going to max from day one is generally not advisable unless you are willing to risk some form of incident, because with the manufacturing tolerances today most failures are reasonably bad and could lead to a crash while at the max. The run in period is now more to ensure everything is running smooth and sort out any issues at controlled speeds.
VellVector is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2017, 20:46   #36
Team-BHP Support
 
mobike008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10,514
Thanked: 7,183 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Running-in and timely servicing (including oil changes) are mandatory for all high-powered bikes. I will go a step further and say that chain cleaning and lubing at regular intervals is also very important as I see many folks are rather easy-going on this important requirement and there are chances of an accident in the event of chain sprockets breaking due to dryness (happened to a cousin on his classic 350)

Also when you do not run-in the engine and in the event of something going wrong (like in Pradosh's case) then you will start dissecting your activities from the beginning and will then partly blame not going through run-in period for the failure

Is it asking too much to maintain a certain RPM range for first 1000kms? It's a simple requirement of playing around until a certain range (~2K-5K rpm) to make sure all fresh components are fully bedded in (though I'm fully aware that new age motorcycles/cars do not need a run-in and is also proudly proclaimed by the service folks too) but, for our own peace of mind after paying such a large sum, why not just follow it?

Super-biking in India is riddled with the problem of unsatisfactory service and availability of spare parts. It's not just a Kawasaki story but, almost every top brand is part of this cesspool

Even though the situation is improving albeit too darn slowly, I believe everyone who buys into this segment is well aware about current situation with respect to lackluster service, untrained mechanics and non-availability of parts and is tolerating the situation purely because this inconvenience is being compensated by the enjoyment they get when they ride these bikes
mobike008 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2017, 13:08   #37
BHPian
 
Crankpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 107
Thanked: 59 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Honestly, poor service is the backbone of our country be it Internet service providers or auto after-sales service...!

Japanese makers have poor service records when it comes to bigger displacement motorbikes. No spare part inventory, no trained technician to fix minor issues and general lack of customer care. I have experienced that. But I had big hopes from Kawasaki and Bajaj on this front.

My friends are happy with the Triumph service at least here in Pune.

Last edited by mobike008 : 20th February 2017 at 17:50. Reason: spaced it so its better readable...
Crankpin is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2017, 18:55   #38
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 226
Thanked: 211 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankpin View Post
My friends are happy with the Triumph service at least here in Pune.
I think all the dedicated superbike brands have become reasonably decent for regular service. It's when something out of the norm happens that everything goes to hell.
VellVector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2017, 19:09   #39
BHPian
 
Crankpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 107
Thanked: 59 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Not all but Triumph, Harley are better than others. These are all new bikes so most of stuff is basic service related like oil/ filter etc. the above manufacturers have a assembly line here so they probably can stock spares whereas Honda, Yamaha etc have spares on demand which takes time to procure.
Also they are worried about spares ending up in grey market bikes
Crankpin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2017, 19:53   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 226
Thanked: 211 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankpin View Post
Not all but Triumph, Harley are better than others. These are all new bikes so most of stuff is basic service related like oil/ filter etc. the above manufacturers have a assembly line here so they probably can stock spares whereas Honda, Yamaha etc have spares on demand which takes time to procure.
Also they are worried about spares ending up in grey market bikes
Yamaha and Honda are not dedicated superbike brands in India. AFAIK they even share the service centers with regular bikes which in turn reduces even their basic service competence.

Not sure about Triumph, but out of my personal experience Harley isn't better than any other brand. Friends who own Triumphs rate it as ok service.

Like I said before for basic service most brands have become reasonably decent.
VellVector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2017, 22:41   #41
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 635
Thanked: 299 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

While engine manufacturing processes have greatly improved I feels its still necessary to follow the break in process, especially if and how it is mentioned in the manual since the manufacturers know best.

With respect to engine oil changes, atleast in some manuals, a 'regular' replacement interval of say 1 year/10000 kms is mentioned and also an extreme environment interval of 6 months/5000km may also be mentioned. Most of these 'extreme' conditions match your average Indian road scenario pretty well - hot weather, dusty, stop and go traffic, etc.

Always go through the entire manual when its new and make note of the running in guidelines mentioned as well as stuff mentioned about the regular, critical consumables like engine oil.

I agree that you didnt receive the best of service and there is a good chance that the part could be defective but I just feel that delaying an oil change say between 25,000 and 30000km is different from one at 6000km
Mortis is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2017, 17:01   #42
BHPian
 
sen2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 536
Thanked: 608 Times
Smile Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
.... while I continued my ride with a borrowed Bullet from a friend.
I Guess nobody noticed this small bit of info on the OP thread. Hard to complete a mega marathon tour like this one without any help from a Bullet friend. Superbikes will fail, Plasticars will die, Cruisers will choke and in the very end, everybody makes way for the BULLET.
sen2009 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2017, 18:45   #43
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 38
Thanked: 101 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
I'm so sorry to hear what happened with the bike. It must have been a real dampener to such an amazing trip. Look forward to a trip log as well. Looks like you have a lemon in the form of clutch assembly which isn't getting better. It could be worse, though, Triumph took almost 6 months to get my bike ready. And I waited for a year to get an accessory cowl for my bike. These things happen because the Indian market just doesn't have the volume yet for these brands to keep stock and then with chalta hai attitude just spoil customer faith in the brand.
Thanks. Will soon write a thread on my tour.

Yes its the acceptability of the "Chalta Hai Attitude" by the superbike owners is what I feel is strange. I understand that parts can not be stocked at dealer level but then parts for a couple of bikes should be available at least at a National level (Stored in a centralized place like Pune).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is questioning your late first service but your skipping the second service completely. It is a little difficult to believe that between the point the service was due at 7200 km to the point of your crash around 12,000km (a span of around 5000km) you couldn't find a single service center.
I have a 2-3 hour video which can show how well the so called specialists have been trained by Kawasaki in 2 days workshops and certified them as specialist technicians. Not to mention the non availability of tools to repair such machines. And yes I think the Kirtinagar Bagga guys were even having a couple of bikes parked which were above 800 cc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by airfoil View Post
The Versys has a wet clutch which means the clutch housing sits partly submerged in a pool of oil. When the engine is running this oil circulates around the engine and the clutch housing dips partly into this circulating oil, and oil is splashed onto the housing and in between the clutch plates. It also lubricates the bearing on which the clutch housing sits.
It seems that they have tested and it is working fine now. I will trust them and take another chance. However I will get a compression test done and then ride and then decide. One more thing I will be doing which is I will get it checked every 500-1000 kms. If it works fine then its good else I'll have no other option than to take it up with Bajaj/Kawasaki whoever would be in charge then.( As the break up will be effective from April 2017).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer View Post
So, one buys a bike that costs more than cars, then he'll have to waste his time following up, emailing, calling the service center?
Agree with you 100%. Considering such attitude acceptable and tolerating it has to end. If the companies can not supply spares in an acceptable time, then they should either be penalized or should not be allowed to sell bikes. (Whoever still wants can get it the way others have been getting it into India)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
There are less than 200 Versys bikes sold over the last year. It's only reasonable to expect that service centers would only have the regular spares available for service and common issues.
The business model can not be I shall open a shop if I get business till then let me juggle around. If they can stock 5-6 bikes at dealer levels then having spares for a bike at central level should not be very much. With regard to my issue, I still can understand even though its unacceptable but taking 45 days for fairings, rims, shocks, etc is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
Unfortunately that is the reality and if you are unable to accept it, best option is not to buy one of these machines to begin with. It is the case not only with superbikes, but with the high end car service as well. I can attest to both out of personal experience.
The bike was ridden in running in for 1000 kms. And the odometer read 3,200 when I started with my tour. I think that is considerable amount of time.

If we still have to run around and wait for 45 days and pay premium prices for parts then what is difference between importing a bike through other ways and having a company set shop in India? We have so many mechanics with contacts in Thailand and elsewhere who can get parts much faster at same or lesser prices than what the dealer charges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
I Guess nobody noticed this small bit of info on the OP thread. Hard to complete a mega marathon tour like this one without any help from a Bullet friend. Superbikes will fail, Plasticars will die, Cruisers will choke and in the very end, everybody makes way for the BULLET.
Yeah and as most of the Bullet owners say "Do not expect too much from the Bull". It will deliver better results if you do not expect it to. Sharing the pic of the Champion Bull which delivered 10,000 kms non stop in about 18 days.

Mod Note: Please quote only relevant sections of a post when responding

Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers-storm-shadow.jpg The champion Bull 'Storm Shadow' which lived up to its name

Last edited by Jaggu : 27th February 2017 at 21:47.
bikerzindia is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2017, 20:20   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 226
Thanked: 211 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
I have a 2-3 hour video which can show how well the so called specialists have been trained by Kawasaki in 2 days workshops and certified them as specialist technicians. Not to mention the non availability of tools to repair such machines. And yes I think the Kirtinagar Bagga guys were even having a couple of bikes parked which were above 800 cc.
Could you please share this video. Would be very interested to see it. I'm not sure what Bagga guys is, but Kawasaki maintains separate service centers for it's CBU bikes. Did you take your bike to a KTM service center or to a proper Kawasaki ASS (that would be under India Kawasaki directly)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
If the companies can not supply spares in an acceptable time, then they should either be penalized or should not be allowed to sell bikes. (Whoever still wants can get it the way others have been getting it into India)
So just because you don't want to wait for parts, nobody else should be able to buy a bike in India? Importing a bike by yourself is a pain and expensive, the number of superbikes on the road now vs some years back shows that.

While I agree that the part availability is bad, if someone is willing to accept it, what is the problem?

At the end of the day customers are buying these bikes knowing the realities of owning them. To them it is worth the hassles of ownership. Most companies are only motivated to change when their service or product doesn't sell. (Best example in India has to be Skoda, but now their image of bad service is set in stone.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzindia View Post
If we still have to run around and wait for 45 days and pay premium prices for parts then what is difference between importing a bike through other ways and having a company set shop in India? We have so many mechanics with contacts in Thailand and elsewhere who can get parts much faster at same or lesser prices than what the dealer charges.
While it sounds very easy, as someone who owned a superbike before all the brands opened in India, let me tell you it can be very difficult and expensive.

Good mechanics are hard to come by and if by chance you bike needs anything more than regular service, diagnosing, importing and fixing your bike can be a nightmare.

Realistically there will never be any rules in India to protect customers. Your best option to make these companies change is threads like these which show potential buyers which brands to stay away from. Once their bottom line takes a hit, things will change in a hurry.
VellVector is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2017, 23:04   #45
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 38
Thanked: 101 Times
Default Re: Versys 650: Horrible experience with Kawasaki & its dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
Could you please share this video. Would be very interested to see it. I'm not sure what Bagga guys is, but Kawasaki maintains separate service centers for it's CBU bikes. Did you take your bike to a KTM service center or to a proper Kawasaki ASS (that would be under India Kawasaki directly)?
Bagga was taking in KTMs as well and also Kawasaki s above 650 cc as seen by me. Am sure Delhi guys can throw more light on this if there is any specialized Kawasaki Service center in Delhi.

Its not just me, there are many more people who are feeling frustrated to see their bikes laying and eating dust while waiting for parts. I have seen people with 5-6 year old bikes which have run for 6,000 kms, 2 year old bikes with 2,000-3,000 kms on odo. Am sure such people will not mind but not people who buy bikes to ride. Have seen people completing running in in 2 days after buying the bike, it will be a pain for such guys me included to see the bike eating dust when we have purchased it from company authorized to sell bikes in India and not a second hand bike or a grey market bike.

Worst could be instead of taking such companies to task, we should not let the lethargy creep in into the way the company starts functioning in India.

I mean in my and in some of known cases of what a few other owners have faced, the ASMs start putting customers on Call Ignore List as well as Ignore List on Whatsapp. This kind of Customer Service is just unheard of. Bajaj/Kawasaki here is setting up a benchmark in customer service levels.

In this age of competitiveness am sure there are quite a few mechanics at least in metros and am sure there are more than one who would wanna milk the customers. Maybe years ago there were handful mechanics as well as handful of bikes but now am sure they would have increased.

You are very right in saying the companies may start thinking when they take a hit but what about the people who have already bought bike from such companies, they would be in soup already. All we can try to do is swim against the waves, after all swimming with the waves is sure to keep us on shore.

Last edited by mobike008 : 23rd February 2017 at 08:29. Reason: Reducing quote size
bikerzindia is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kawasaki Versys 650 launched at Rs. 6.6 lakh //M Superbikes & Imports 872 29th March 2017 09:26
Review: My Kawasaki Versys 650! techfreak Superbikes & Imports 16 13th December 2016 23:03
Kawasaki Versys 650 - Coming to India? vipinmishra Superbikes & Imports 160 24th December 2015 14:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:18.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks