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Old 6th August 2008, 23:53   #31
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Originally Posted by manson
Its about striking a balance, and if you do not intend to spend 2000 odd on a good pair of boots that would protect you incase of a fall (sbk or single pot) you do not deserve a superbike that you would have spent a huge packet upon.
That statement was to highlight priorities. I didn't literally mean boots, dear. Protective clothing is the first thing to take care of before riding ANY bike.

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Originally Posted by manson
In India sir. Yamaha has launched a ................

.....The development you are experiencing today is all due to the change in economic policies through the 90s.
Do you really think that an Indian manufacturer would risk a home-grown 600 in the near 3-5 year term? You talked about a 6-speed 150. Yamaha has been in India since 1983; partnered with Escorts, and as standalone since 1999. The best that they have done so far is the R15, after the iconic RD. Big deal. The R1 & MT-01 have been launched at an average of 3 lacs above grey market. Hurrah.

Let me assure you that the bike market in India is NOTHING like the car market, wherein the home players stand to lose if not protected. Sure, nobody would buy a Scorpio at Tundra's price if made available, but people are still buying ZMA's & 220's at R15's expense (which, BTW, is not completely manufactured in India). The point that I'm trying to make is that the duties are fine for bikes below 600CC wherein home-grown markets could lose to lesser priced models from China or Malaysia (they do have manufacturers, by the way).

Regarding the "performance bikes" from HH & Bajaj, these "puny" machines have come into existence after 10 years of existence.

India has never been a performance oriented market. Mass volumes have been garnered by small capacity machines. So do not expect HH, Bajaj & the like to invest in high capacity machines. You do not see Maruti gunning for BMW 3-series/5-series now, do you?

I'm not against the govt. itself. Just the customs & DMV. Sure, they have better things to do, but for god's sake, change these stupid laws.
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Old 7th August 2008, 02:08   #32
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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
That statement was to highlight priorities. I didn't literally mean boots, dear. Protective clothing is the first thing to take care of before riding ANY bike.
I am glad to know that, really.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Do you really think that an Indian manufacturer would risk a home-grown 600 in the near 3-5 year term?
What really is the risk if the R&D, manafacturing & marketing has been taken care of systematically.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
You talked about a 6-speed 150. Yamaha has been in India since 1983; partnered with Escorts, and as standalone since 1999. The best that they have done so far is the R15, after the iconic RD. Big deal. The R1 & MT-01 have been launched at an average of 3 lacs above grey market. Hurrah.
Appreciate the fact that Yamaha did not lose focus on this one, and went on with the performance oriented platform. Have you ridden one yet though?
Launching the R1 & the MT-01 just about 20% more than gray market prices is an excellent job carried out by Yamaha. This is with fully duty (145% i reckon), road tax, e.t.c. all inclusive, heck with a warranty too. Makes you wonder how much money the gray market agents make, or just how inefficient their way of working really is.


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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Let me assure you that the bike market in India is NOTHING like the car market, wherein the home players stand to lose if not protected. Sure, nobody would buy a Scorpio at Tundra's price if made available, but people are still buying ZMA's & 220's at R15's expense (which, BTW, is not completely manufactured in India). The point that I'm trying to make is that the duties are fine for bikes below 600CC wherein home-grown markets could lose to lesser priced models from ?
Well the 600 cc import priced at 4L odd, could easily take away sales of a potential domestic 250-600 priced at between 2-4L levels, which hampers domestic growth more than it benefits a couple of enthusiasts.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
China or Malaysia (they do have manufacturers, by the way).?
Name ten automobile majors from each country without using google.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Regarding the "performance bikes" from HH & Bajaj, these "puny" machines have come into existence after 10 years of existence.

India has never been a performance oriented market. Mass volumes have been garnered by small capacity machines. So do not expect HH, Bajaj & the like to invest in high capacity machines. ?
That is simply because the Indian consumer has typically desired a high fuel effieciency, low power commuter, than an out & out performance inline four.
The companies ake some time to react to altered tastes & prefrences. It may have taken longer than usual in this case, but even the spurt in demand is not like a million units.
Yamaha dropped in with the RD, realised the consumer wanted something more fuel efficient, and they almost struck a great balance with the RXs. They had a few years of turmoil, and have tested waters with the R1 & the MT 01. Had the demand been tremendous, who knows Yamaha could have setup a manafacturing facility for all their race bred motorcycles in India as well, which would pass the import tariffs and instead maybe even have bikes priced further lower than the international markets.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
You do not see Maruti gunning for BMW 3-series/5-series now, do you?
The previous Grand Vitara from the Maruti stable with a V6 motor priced at 20L odd levels caught most by surprise. Its not the Beemer or Merc league, but a Maruti at 20L was a something nobody would have expected unless one was familiar with the GV's pricing in the international markets.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
I'm not against the govt. itself. Just the customs & DMV. Sure, they have better things to do, but for god's sake, change these stupid laws.
The government lays the law, the departments (in this case the customs) enforce it.

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Old 7th August 2008, 16:24   #33
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Great thread. Good discussion points from T-BHPians. My thoughts are:

1. In a country of 1+ billion, the number of people who will buy super-bikes would be a few thousands. Putting myself in the government's shoes, I have enought things to worry than these few thousands for an issue which is not even 1% critical.

2. I dont think the government takes road safety as a main consideration when coming up with the import duty, which was finalised so many years back. It simply does not care, Otherwise why would pedestrians be still walking on the road due to lack of foot paths (I agree some people walk on the road even if there is a foot-path but most of us would love to walk on a well maintained foot-path) and why would the killer bus(government) drivers be still driving on the roads.

3. Even if the government reduces the import duty it is not going to increase the number of super-bikes drastically to increase it's duty revenue. Reducing the cost of SBKs by half will still mean the number of buyers will be in few thousands.

4. The reason for Indian companies not launching a bigger capacity bike is that they will not find volumes to justify the investment. Most of us enthusiasts who are shouting for bigger bikes (read 2-3 L range) are all here in some community / forum and we are not a huge crowd. We will wait for the best bike (individual preference) and buy if possible.

5. 50K or 50L, whatever be the price of bike, an irresponsible and dangerous guy would continue to be one.

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Old 7th August 2008, 18:24   #34
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Originally Posted by manson
What really is the risk if the R&D, manafacturing & marketing has been taken care of systematically.
Do you really know how much money and effort goes into building a machine from scratch? The Indica, for example, was developed at a staggering 1800 crores plus, after much R&D and infusion of foreign talent. Tata is still recovering from the shock. And we're talking about a mass-mover (in terms of sales) here. People may not know this, but even the Karizma, which is originally designed to handle 20 horses and is a direct rip-off of the CRF 230 (the sixth gear sacrificed for the kick shaft and bevel/gears), took HH by it's neck when it took 50 Cr+ to develop, market and launch in the initial phase. I have actually spoken to Bajaj personnel, been with Mahindra R&D team when they've visited Mumbai, and blah blah. It takes 18-24 months for a model to move from design phase to development phase, from development to test phase, test phase to production phase, and what not.

It's easier said than done to manufacture and market a 600-1000cc bike. Especially when margins do not justify the development involved. Bajaj & HH have stuck to small machines knowing their facts well. All SBK players are international. Do you think a 1000CC TVS "Fieroid" would outsell a Gixxer in the States? Or Europe?

Why do you think the German make MZ shut down their SBK plant? Poor management? Lack of technology? Nah.

Hero Honda might be the largest selling motorcycle brand in the world, but that cannot break from the fact that Honda is still Hero's technology partner, and they have forbidden Hero from going ahead with their big bike plans; which is why their 350cc single cylinder (whose engine cutouts I've seen personally) model is in doldrums.

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Originally Posted by manson
Appreciate the fact that Yamaha did not lose focus on this one, and went on with the performance oriented platform. Have you ridden one yet though?
Ridden an R15? Yes. Quite some time ago, in fact. Good seat comfort, aggressive riding position like the R1 (strenuous on wrists on long rides; like the Pulsar), and barely adequate performance. Excellent poser machine, though. A much better alternative to buying a ZMA/220 and modding it to a fully faired cycle. Not really my type, since I do a lot of off-roading as well.

The R1 & MT-01 are still paying 156% + regn+ trasportation+ insurance. They're only devoid of homologation (except for the saree guard and number plates due to mandatory reasons) fees.

It is easier for someone who has the money and already owns a SBK to say that SBK's ought to be expensive and all that. Come to the other side of the fence, think logically, and rattle those brains. Would you have waited for 15 years to get a domestic version of the 'Ace? No, right? The key word is choice. Not about economical growth. I'm with you if you say that the Honda Jazz needs to be taxed as a CBU, because it would pose a direct threat to Indicas and Swifts. Not the bikes, dear. Heck, I'll even agree to the govt. taxing below 800cc machines. Why can't they just remove customs off of the 800cc+ machines, since they don't require homologation??

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Originally Posted by manson
Name ten automobile majors from each country without using google.
Can't. Sorry, I'm not aware of ten domestic two wheeler manufacturers/majors even in our own country.

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Originally Posted by manson
The previous Grand Vitara from the Maruti stable with a V6 motor priced at 20L odd levels caught most by surprise.

Arre baba, the Vitara came, and went. Nobody noticed. Why? Because of two reasons. A) Brand value. B) VFM. The Vitara costed about 8.5 odd lac INR abroad. Why do you think dealers were fuming over the 2-Vitara sales target that they got every month?? Some even got saddled with one. There's a dealer in Gujarat whom I knew, who had to buy one himself to satisfy the targets. He wasn't happy about it. The point being this. There's still another 10 good years to go before we see a home-grown litre class with the Bajaj or TVS logo on it. And people cannot wait. And even if we DO see a 1000cc "Pulsator", there's no guarantee that people would prefer it over a Ninja ZX10R. Case in point, Vitara over CR-V.

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Originally Posted by manson
The government lays the law, the departments (in this case the customs) enforce it.
Any idea how these laws are put into place? The Customs & DMV puts forth their suggestions to politicos, who frame a bill, which comes to parliament, gets passed, and is then enforced. It's a big vicious cycle, and we are none the better to be ignorant. Forget it.

The truth is, India will never have the infrastructure to aid enthusiasts the way we want it to. But that's okay. I'm a patriot, and India is a great country.. All we are asking for is equality. No govt. in the whole wide world supports enthusiasts. Nowhere does the law advocate free drivers/riders. It would be too much for us to ask for racetracks and bye-laws when India is still struggling with education, bare-basic infrastructure and supporting the poor.

All we ask for is a little freedom and leeway for those with willpower and determination to achieve their dreams. Legally. One can always resort to illegal means to support their passion (one could have done that long time ago), but that's not the way it should be...
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Old 8th August 2008, 15:14   #35
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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Do you really know how much money and effort goes into building a machine from scratch?
Not exactly, but i do have an idea.
And, they could always buy patents, or technology from one of the four Jap majors, or even KTM and begin somwhere from the middle, and not scratch.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
It's easier said than done to manufacture and market a 600-1000cc bike. Especially when margins do not justify the development involved. Bajaj & HH have stuck to small machines knowing their facts well. All SBK players are international. Do you think a 1000CC TVS "Fieroid" would outsell a Gixxer in the States? Or Europe?
None of the four Jap majors on their first motorcycle launch knew they would get where they stand today, its all about visualising.
Develop a good product, and it sells! Even if it is from India. Period!


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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Why do you think the German make MZ shut down their SBK plant? Poor management? Lack of technology? Nah.
Never heard of MZ, but if they shut down, something was certainly going wrong somewhere. Maybe you know better.


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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Hero Honda might be the largest selling motorcycle brand in the world, but that cannot break from the fact that Honda is still Hero's technology partner, and they have forbidden Hero from going ahead with their big bike plans; which is why their 350cc single cylinder (whose engine cutouts I've seen personally) model is in doldrums.
Yamaha, Suzuki & Honda have directly owned subsidiaries in India since a while now. What is stopping them to setup manafacturing facilities for the larger bikes in India. This way, they could sell the larger bikes without any import duties, and export the surplus.
Would even help the government earn foriegn revenue, win win situation for the government, tha two wheeler manafacturer and the enthusiast.


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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Ridden an R15? Yes. Quite some time ago, in fact. Good seat comfort, aggressive riding position like the R1 (strenuous on wrists on long rides; like the Pulsar), and barely adequate performance. Excellent poser machine, though. A much better alternative to buying a ZMA/220 and modding it to a fully faired cycle. Not really my type, since I do a lot of off-roading as well.
Thanks for review, i have not had the time to test ride one. But did you say off roading? So, which inline four superbike do you wish to import and go offroading?

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
The R1 & MT-01 are still paying 156% + regn+ trasportation+ insurance. They're only devoid of homologation (except for the saree guard and number plates due to mandatory reasons) fees.
Heck, why don't you make a hue and cry when you pay a couple of lacs less than what Yamaha India charges you, and you get an 'illegal' bike with hanging wires, unchipped keys, malfunctioning electricals, zero support from your so called agent, e.t.c. and are yet scared about riding it when a cop walks past your motorcycle.


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It is easier for someone who has the money and already owns a SBK to say that SBK's ought to be expensive and all that. Come to the other side of the fence, think logically, and rattle those brains.
I really thought you knew me better than that.
So much for me waiting almost two whole years to gather a better budget and buy a legal bike. FYI, I could have bought a much newer crap papers bike over my 'fully legal & all duties/taxes paid' Thunderace with the same money, but chose to go the legal way.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Why can't they just remove customs off of the 800cc+ machines, since they don't require homologation??
Instead, why can't the Jap majors setup manafacturing facilities in India. This would provide employment oppurtunities to the people as well, and help the automobile & allied industries to grow as well.


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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Can't. Sorry, I'm not aware of ten domestic two wheeler manufacturers/majors even in our own country.
LML, Royal Enfield, Honda, Hero Honda, Yamaha, TVS, Suzuki, Kinetic, Bajaj & you could scratch and add the tenth name.
Btw, i asked for ten automobile majors in Thailand or Malaysia, two or four wheeler.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Arre baba, the Vitara came, and went. Nobody noticed. Why? Because of two reasons. A) Brand value. B) VFM. The Vitara costed about 8.5 odd lac INR abroad. Why do you think dealers were fuming over the 2-Vitara sales target that they got every month?? Some even got saddled with one. There's a dealer in Gujarat whom I knew, who had to buy one himself to satisfy the targets. He wasn't happy about it. The point being this. There's still another 10 good years to go before we see a home-grown litre class with the Bajaj or TVS logo on it. And people cannot wait. And even if we DO see a 1000cc "Pulsator", there's no guarantee that people would prefer it over a Ninja ZX10R. Case in point, Vitara over CR-V.
A good product, priced well with good A.S.S. sells everywhere. Maruti could have localised the production for the Vitara an extent, they did not and it bombed. But today, you see a lot more of them around when Maruti has priced it lower, evn though it has an inferior set of interiors and a sluggish engine when companred to its early V6 version.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
The truth is, India will never have the infrastructure to aid enthusiasts the way we want it to.
The luxuries are mostly the last things on a government presiding over a developing country.

But that's okay. I'm a patriot, and India is a great country.. All we are asking for is equality. No govt. in the whole wide world supports enthusiasts. Nowhere does the law advocate free drivers/riders. It would be too much for us to ask for racetracks and bye-laws when India is still struggling with education, bare-basic infrastructure and supporting the poor. [/quote]

I am glad you understand.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
All we ask for is a little freedom and leeway for those with willpower and determination to achieve their dreams. Legally. One can always resort to illegal means to support their passion (one could have done that long time ago), but that's not the way it should be...
Makes me happy to know that you will wait for the government to amend its policies to buy a legal bike, and not jump the gun to buy an illegal cheap import.

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Old 8th August 2008, 16:05   #36
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So much for me waiting almost two whole years to gather a better budget and buy a legal bike. FYI, I could have bought a much newer crap papers bike over my 'fully legal & all duties/taxes paid' Thunderace with the same money, but chose to go the legal way.
That's exactly why I'm not rushing into it. Like I told you the other day, I have experienced first hand what an advantage it is to own a clean bike. You don't have to avoid "naka-bandi's"(if you're wearing a helmet)and can confidently show the papers of the bike to anyone.
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Old 10th August 2008, 02:14   #37
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@manson: My dear, we have moved our discussion from why superbikes should not be expensive due to the duty structure to setting up plants in India, cutting of duties, and blah blah. The point is, on a realistic basis, none of the auto majors will set up a plant in India for a superbike. Period. Just like Lamborghini or Ferrari would never set shop in India. Sure, we might see some decent bikes from Bajaj or TVS, but that's a long time away.

I believe that we should have the right to choose. That's all. Superbikes should be cheap/reasonably priced.

BTW. MZ shut down because of competition. Some of their models had borrowed engines, fantastic styling, and developed a cult following as well....but...

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Originally Posted by manson
But did you say off roading? So, which inline four superbike do you wish to import and go offroading?
None. My ZMA is enough. My other machine, whenever she comes, would purely be for tarmac use. I would really love an FZ1/ Bandit 1250 with whom you can do a mild bit of "soft-roading" as well, but that would turn out to be quite heavy on maintenance. Effortwise, as well as monetarily. I can't simply buy and leave her to the mechanics; I HAVE to shower undivided attention on whatever I have...

People don't cry over illegal bikes because they save a bucketload. Enough to purchase another one, in certain cases..besides, you can fix most issues that the bikes come with; you only need keen interest and patience. There's an R1 over here which was brought in brand new for just about the same amount or so as your 'Ace. 2 years ago. No issues with the bike yet. Or so I've heard....

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Originally Posted by manson
I really thought you knew me better than that.
I didn't mean it that way, bhai. I was only insinuating that you try and put yourself in other's shoes and understand the emotion behind the lack/scarcity of properly priced SBK's thereof. I know you have gone through thick and thin getting your baby, so perhaps you can think on this tangent as well.

I guess thiyags22 has rightly summarized what has been said all through....
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Old 11th August 2008, 22:58   #38
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@manson: My dear, we have moved our discussion from why superbikes should not be expensive due to the duty structure to setting up plants in India, cutting of duties, and blah blah. The point is, on a realistic basis, none of the auto majors will set up a plant in India for a superbike. Period.
It is all interlinked. The government has imposed high duties on automobile imports to protect the economy. What the two wheeler majors can do to bypass the same is to setup manafacturing facilities in India with an export oriented view. In a country like ours, i am certain the Japs can easily meet their exsiting cost structure if not beat it by setting up plants in India.
This will not only kill two birds with one stone, it will kill four.
1. It will help our domestic economy grow via job creation, and automobile allied industries.
2. The Japs can sell domestic Indian produce in interntaional markets and help India earn valuable foreign exchange.
3. Create an almost brand new market in India.
4. They could try and lower cost structure, India is yet cheap for input costs.

And, if the international players are not setting up shop in India, they are the ones losing out, and nobody else. The government is bang on target, atlest where the economic growth of the country is the concern.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Just like Lamborghini or Ferrari would never set shop in India.
Did you know that RR has a purpose based manafacturing facility in Navi Mumbai? Thats just an example. If a premium brand like RR can think of sourcing production from India, i wonder why the Japs have not yet come up with the same. Maybe its you favourite international two wheeler majors who do not want you ride that fancy motorcycle more than the government.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Sure, we might see some decent bikes from Bajaj or TVS, but that's a long time away.
You probably know better than me.


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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
I believe that we should have the right to choose. That's all. Superbikes should be cheap/reasonably priced.
You have the right to choose, it is not the government's fault if the domestic players arent coming up with high spec interesting products, and the international players do not want to manfacture in India. But they most certainly are not going to give up on revenue they recieve via import duty for a bunch of enthusiasts.

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BTW. MZ shut down because of competition.
In your earlier post the tone made it seem like it had some peculiar problems with manafacturing a superbike. Competition is the biggest killer, so whats the big deal if one company shut down? I am sorry, but i simply do not get your point in relation to this MZ company.

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None. My ZMA is enough. My other machine, whenever she comes, would purely be for tarmac use. I would really love an FZ1/ Bandit 1250 with whom you can do a mild bit of "soft-roading" as well, but that would turn out to be quite heavy on maintenance.
All the best with that, i really wanna see you ride your biggie soon.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
People don't cry over illegal bikes because they save a bucketload. Enough to purchase another one, in certain cases..besides, you can fix most issues that the bikes come with; you only need keen interest and patience.
Interest and patience to fix your brand new R1s electricals, and that too with the help of mechanics who are yet only half learned about the 'newer' superbikes. The best of the mechanics in our country are yet seen experimenting often with customer bikes, and are sometimes lazy to openup tghe motorcycle for little issues here and there, but you my friend are ignorant to all of this, and do not mind having to drag your bike to the mech after having owned it only for a couple of days. You really have keen interest and a lot of patience.

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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
There's an R1 over here which was brought in brand new for just about the same amount or so as your 'Ace. 2 years ago. No issues with the bike yet. Or so I've heard....
Firstly, if they are so darn cheap, and with your skill, patience and inclination of fixing up a new bike, aand if you really think they are safe to go with, why aren't you getting yourself a gray market FZ1, why wait for the government to amend rules.

Secondly, Vasai is quite a bit out of a metro, and the owner is not going to call you to express his 'bike may get impounded fear' everytime he passes a cop.

And, for the amount i paid for my Thunderace, get me a brand new R1, or any other liter class bike from gray, blue, purple, yellow market, and i will purchase as many as you can sell me. I will purchase each and very one of those units you manage, sell all of them to gray market dealer for atleast a 3 lac margin and import one official liter class for every four units you sell to me, ar Rs. 12 lac each.

Get over those brand new 5 lac stories, the best i have heard of is 8.5L for a liter class, and 2008 onwards the prices have rise to even 10, mainly cos' of the 2008 blade. And the 600s hover around the 7L range.

manson.

Last edited by manson : 11th August 2008 at 23:05.
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Old 12th August 2008, 00:05   #39
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5 Lakhs is the sort of amount the importers get the bike for. Think about how much you get ripped off when you pay around 8-9 lakhs for that bike. Nice business, if you can invest in it!
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Old 12th August 2008, 00:35   #40
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Base price of a liter class + shipping & packaging + clearing agent's fee + packet to the babu + registration + packet to babu in rto + assembling fee + money paid to babus to let the hoolah continue, just has to be a good chunk over 5L. Good business you which could be busted at the drop of a hat.

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5 Lakhs is the sort of amount the importers get the bike for. Think about how much you get ripped off when you pay around 8-9 lakhs for that bike. Nice business, if you can invest in it!
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Old 12th August 2008, 14:59   #41
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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
Let me assure you that the bike market in India is NOTHING like the car market, wherein the home players stand to lose if not protected.


Do you think a 1000CC TVS "Fieroid" would outsell a Gixxer in the States? Or Europe?
Veyron, The India Auto Market has been evolving and I sure the Bike market is going to see some changes.

My angle on this is why can't Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki who already have plants in India, expand to produce atleast the 600s for the Europe region based out of India (and sell in India and other parts of EMEA). esp with the low manufacturing costs here compared to Europe?

Agreed a 'Fieriod' or a 'Pulsator' would not do even 1/4th as well as a Gixer or Kwacker in the States or Europe. However with the decent quality Bajaj is bringing out, I think they could bring a decent 600+/liter bike for about 3L. and I dont think its that difficult for them to do that in a 5-6 year span.

I personally would rather buy a Indian made R6 / Gixer / CBR for 3-4L
<head in the clouds>


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Base price of a liter class + shipping & packaging + clearing agent's fee + packet to the babu + registration + packet to babu in rto + assembling fee + money paid to babus to let the hoolah continue, just has to be a good chunk over 5L. Good business you which could be busted at the drop of a hat.

manson.
I wish there were lesser loopholes but I agree they make a good cut. They operate on high risk, so we cant argue much with them.

Mods should tweak the title to something like "Honda bikes coming to India: Discussion moving to 800+cc bikes policy"
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Old 12th August 2008, 20:45   #42
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Veyron, The India Auto Market has been evolving and I sure the Bike market is going to see some changes.

My angle on this is why can't Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki who already have plants in India, expand to produce atleast the 600s for the Europe region based out of India (and sell in India and other parts of EMEA). esp with the low manufacturing costs here compared to Europe?

Agreed a 'Fieriod' or a 'Pulsator' would not do even 1/4th as well as a Gixer or Kwacker in the States or Europe. However with the decent quality Bajaj is bringing out, I think they could bring a decent 600+/liter bike for about 3L. and I dont think its that difficult for them to do that in a 5-6 year span.

I personally would rather buy a Indian made R6 / Gixer / CBR for 3-4L
<head in the clouds>
In case, you all didn't know, the keys for all Triumph motorcycles are manufactured by 'MINDA' of Noida. So, there is hope .
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Old 12th August 2008, 23:44   #43
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well things are looking up now.We make the keys.soon we shall make the rest of the bike.Yes my friend there is hope ; only i wish i live to see it happen.
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Old 13th August 2008, 14:47   #44
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In case, you all didn't know, the keys for all Triumph motorcycles are manufactured by 'MINDA' of Noida. So, there is hope .
I am lost for words with this. This is the next best thing to sliced bread?
just kidding.
I am just cheesed with the whole situations, esp when I see that lame annoying Getz Milano ad.

Why cant we see such an ad for a R6?
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Old 14th August 2008, 03:42   #45
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Originally Posted by manson
It is all interlinked. The government has imposed high duties on automobile imports to protect the economy. What the two wheeler majors can do to bypass the same is to setup manafacturing facilities in India with an export oriented view. ....
How true. Maybe, SBK makers can achieve a lower cost of manufacturing than their home country by setting base here. But the question is, will they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
And, if the international players are not setting up shop in India, they are the ones losing out, and nobody else. The government is bang on target, atlest where the economic growth of the country is the concern.
Maybe you have better in-depth knowledge of the raw material costs and actual production costs incurred in both Japan and India. However, I still have my doubts as to if they'll do what you say they will. My question is, if they cannot beat the production costs (or can only match it), then why should they go ahead and invest additional money and resources to set up shop in India? In pure business sense, why waste resources, time and money on a project that has little or no ROI?

By your sense of business, all manufacturers should set up bases everywhere in the world, so that the respective countries can prosper via returns on their investements and keep enthusiasts happy. C'mon, be real. Component/spare part manufacturing is one thing. It's different. The only body to gain if a SBK plant is set in India is the govt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
Did you know that RR has a purpose based manafacturing facility in Navi Mumbai?
Nope. News to me, actually. Pray tell, what do they manufacture out there? Phantoms?? Dropheads?? And if they do manufacture the cars in Navi Mumbai, why are the damn cars still over twice as expensive as their foreign counterparts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
But they most certainly are not going to give up on revenue they recieve via import duty for a bunch of enthusiasts.
Hence my outrage. Daylight robbery, what else? Do you know what the govt uses the income that they earn from the duty for?? Forgive me, I do not understand the nuances of govt. income/expenditures. But neither does anybody else, except DRI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
In your earlier post the tone made it seem like it had some peculiar problems with manafacturing a superbike.
In a sense, yes. Quality and production was a concern, yes, but primarily, the Japanese competition made sure that MZ's didn't sell. That point was put forth to highlight a TVS vs Suzuki scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
Interest and patience to fix your brand new R1s electricals.....
In case I wasn't clear enough, I was trying to insinuate that these bikes are assembled here with enough accuracy. They do not have any major issues such as with ECM, harness, etc. or engine/chassis. Most issues I've seen are related to minor assembling gripes, such as swingarm fastening, minor electrical work such as couplers hanging around, etc. None major enough to warrant engine replacement, or improper steering/head bolt/misaligned T or such. Perhaps you've seen worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
Firstly, if they are so darn cheap, and with your skill....
I'm not that skilled. Just your average enthusiast. Yes, I can wait around for govt. to amend their rules, or get one quicker (which I might end up doing out of sheer frustration); but I cannot risk getting my baby impounded. Too much sentiments and money involved. I can't risk everything going down the drain. But yes, since I do seem to have a fair bit of patience, I'll wait for some more time and see what happens.....

I had almost got my hands on an FZ6. But that's an old story. No point in beating dead grass.

You want some gray imports? Sure. If you can take the risk, that is. You know my number. With your contacts and financial support, it shouldn't be too difficult....
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