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Old 10th December 2008, 15:38   #61
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How much we beat around the bush, people who want powerful motorcyles are still a minority and neither the government nor the manufacturers will listen and more importantly act to address our issues.
Frankly speaking, I also want a powerful bike at a good price, the way people living in other countries can. But its more about market dynamics. When crude oil went to 147$, everybody wanted to delist it from the commodities market but OPEC said let the market decide. Look where it is now.
Let us take the situation (which is not completely hypothetical) that Nano becomes a huge hit and is satifies every motorcycle owner's need (On paper it kinda does). In that case, the motorcycle companies will have to think either going below the 100 cc (or CNG, LPG etc) or they will move up into > 250 cc teritory as the commuter domain has been cramped up by Nano (or so other success stories that may come up).

The only anamoly in my correlation is that we have incapsulated the Indian Auto Market from the outside world. So it is not truly on a global scale that "Let the market decide".

Goverment doesnot get much of a revenue out of the 2 wheeler import duty. But i believe they will not segregate the 4 wheeler import and 2 wheeler import and then remove duty from the 2 wheeler import. The 2 wheeler indutry lobby will not allow it.

This is a viscious circle.
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Old 10th December 2008, 15:54   #62
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Buddy, please tone down your language. It is certainly not the kind of language A well respected senior deserves to be answered with and is not appreciated.

Can you please tell me what is wrong with the languauge? Read some of the threads to know the amount of sarcasm that goes on here. I have been straighforward and clear.

Well, as for appreciation, I dont live for it Buddy.
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Old 10th December 2008, 16:03   #63
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Can you please tell me what is wrong with the languauge?
Here is what is wrong
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Peak duties of 300%? Now that is certainly something new to me, care to throw some light?

Yes, when I get time, I will google it for you. All kinds of taxes, while importing I mean here.
If you dont have time why post it, if you have posted then prove your point or except that you are not sure

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I am very much updated Sir. R15 & FZ16 arent exactly superbikes are they?
No, but the R1, MT01, Hayabusa & Intruder are

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came across this website while random web surfing in office (I am jobless most of the times).
Not everyone is so we expect a certain level of maturity in posts which you liked as well & your posts above didnt show any.

I hope this clears.
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Old 10th December 2008, 16:30   #64
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Here is what is wrong
-if you have posted then prove your point or accept that you are not sure. Your words.
Do you expect me to say oh, I am so sorry, would your kind self enlighten my ignorant self of the indiscretion I have unwittingly caused? And that too, when I have committed no wrong?





No, but the R1, MT01, Hayabusa & Intruder are
He was not talking about it. He was talking about R-15 and FZ16. R1 yeah, but at what price? That is what was being discussed and not just their availability per se.



Not everyone is so we expect a certain level of maturity in posts which you liked as well & your posts above didnt show any.
Well, I didnt see any difference in the way I was countered and I countered. Free world. Free opinions. And the funny thing is everybody has time to imagine the tone of the language.


I hope this clears.
There was nothing here to clear in my humble opinion.
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Old 10th December 2008, 16:58   #65
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I am not going to do a line by line analysis.

There are always better way to say things especially disagreements but then its different strokes for different folks

If you think there was nothing to clear then I am sorry, I wasted both your & my time.

Lets just get back to the topic
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Old 10th December 2008, 22:26   #66
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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
Yes, when I get time, I will google it for you. All kinds of taxes, while importing I mean here.
I am not exactly waiting for anything, but you may just want to post those *links* to prove your point.


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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
I am very much updated Sir. R15 & FZ16 arent exactly superbikes are they?
I most definitely think of the R15 as a stepping stone for India towards modern two wheelers. When you talk about the FZ16 and the R15 in one line apart from their origin, you obviously do not know what you are talking about.
The FZ is a beautiful meaty looking bike, but most certainly a few shades lower than the R15 on more than a few aspects.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
Why? why should I wait till Bajaj, TVS, HMSI, Yamaha India, etc do this? Why should I care if the Ninja 250 I ride is sold to me by Kawasaki or Bajaj? As a consumer, I dont give a damn whether it is imported or locally manufactured. I would look at more, what some would say mundane and what I would term as relevant parameters like value-for-money, reliability, etc.
Yes, why should one care about the shaping up of the economy after all, you are the hot blooded biker, and that should have obviously been of knowledge to the the concerned governing authorities so that they could have made necessary amendments to the law for the few enthusiast to ride their desired motorcycles.

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Global majors didnt set shop here because they were offered 'protection'. They did so because they sensed they had a market here which they could serve profitably.
Yes, they could serve only if they were well protected against imports.


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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
And you are telling me that 90s economic growth happened because of 'protection'?
Yes, almost all of the economic growth pertaining to the automobile sector is due to the stringent import laws that protected the firms operating within India.
I am not sure if this would be getting personal, but have you at any level (even at school) studied Macro Economics?

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
Couldnt care less for their plants. As I have already said, it is not a HMT or BHEL which would give employement to thousands of blue collar workers.
More manafacturing facilities running profitable implies positive economic growth, I am sure every responsible citizen would care about that, I amnot sure why it does not bother you though.
But BHEL & HMT, at best they are only related to some primrary mother machinery and atleast BHEL's foray into automobiles I am quite blank about. Maybe you could google some links o prove a point here too.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
But to tell that restricting imports to arm-twist global majors to set up shop here, which in turn would have any meaningful impact on the economy is taking things a bit too far.
It is how protectionism is put to most effective use to aid a positive economic growth.

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Old 11th December 2008, 10:05   #67
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I most definitely think of the R15 as a stepping stone for India towards modern two wheelers. When you talk about the FZ16 and the R15 in one line apart from their origin, you obviously do not know what you are talking about.

The FZ is a beautiful meaty looking bike, but most certainly a few shades lower than the R15 on more than a few aspects.
How long will be just stepping? Why do I need to know what I am talking about, when there are such 'enlightened seniors' in the forum who are more than willing to educate me?
OT:Oh by the way I dont find FZ beautiful Sir. I find it grotesque. Hope that is fine by you.


Yes, why should one care about the shaping up of the economy after all, you are the hot blooded biker, and that should have obviously been of knowledge to the the concerned governing authorities so that they could have made necessary amendments to the law for the few enthusiast to ride their desired motorcycles.
Exactly! as you said, it is 'few enthusiast'. so where is the scale for it to have an impact that you are imagining?


Yes, they could serve only if they were well protected against imports.
So, Splendour became the world's largest selling two-wheeler because R1 is available at Rs.10.5Lakhs instead of say Rs.5L-Rs.7Lakhs?


Yes, almost all of the economic growth pertaining to the automobile sector is due to the stringent import laws that protected the firms operating within India.


I am not sure if this would be getting personal, but have you at any level (even at school) studied Macro Economics?
Well, lets not bother about what I know or dont know. All I know is I did not have you as my lecturer/faculty during my college days and I dont know whether I was fortunate or unfortunate.


More manafacturing facilities running profitable implies positive economic growth, I am sure every responsible citizen would care about that, I amnot sure why it does not bother you though.

Sir, I think around 60% of India's GDP comes from services sector. This 'manufacturing facilities implying positive economic growth' is actually a sinking ship and becoming more and more irrelevant. But ofcourse, faith is a funny thing and maybe its this faith that makes us spend on stuff like NREGS (National Rural Employement Gurantee Scheme)

But BHEL & HMT, at best they are only related to some primrary mother machinery and atleast BHEL's foray into automobiles I am quite blank about. Maybe you could google some links o prove a point here too.
Exactly! when industries related to 'some primary mother machinery' which is labour intensive (meaning requires more labour for given level of output as compared to capital) creates only so much blue collar jobs, how much will you think an R1 manufacturing activity create? I did doubt BHEL & HMT manufactured automobiles. Infact even after 4 months of interning at HMT, I still had that doubt. But now that you are saying its confirmed that they dont manufacture automobiles. Thanks for the clarification, Sir.

It is how protectionism is put to most effective use to aid a positive economic growth.
This exactly is the crux of the matter isnt it? How can you 'effectively use' protectionism? One of the regrets I have regarding my educational career is that I didnt study International Trade & Finance. If you can enlighten me on this (putting protectionism to effective use) I will be grateful to you.
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Old 11th December 2008, 21:29   #68
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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post

How long will be just stepping?
Some things, sometimes take longer than they should have. Like most other two wheeler enthusiasts in India, I too have been a victim of the everlasting wait and have been let down by the pricing strategies of the Indian arms of Yamaha & Suzuki for their highend offerings.
Two wheeler players in India have missed the boat completely, and now when a couple of them are trying to change things, I can only hope for a gradual change.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
Why do I need to know what I am talking about, when there are such 'enlightened seniors' in the forum who are more than willing to educate me?
For the couple of years I have been on this forum, and a couple of others, I have noticed that almost everyone is mostly willing to help and educate the misinformed and the uninformed unless they are a bucket load of arrogance.

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OT:Oh by the way I dont find FZ beautiful Sir. I find it grotesque. Hope that is fine by you.
Looks are subjective, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. I for one could care less what a strager thinks about anything at all.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
Exactly! as you said, it is 'few enthusiast'. so where is the scale for it to have an impact that you are imagining?
I for one cannot yet figure out why the four Japanese majors have not ventured into widening their product scope in India. Three of them, namely Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki have fully owned subsidiaries in India.
From a management perspective, adding a vertical should not have been as difficult a task that they have not ventured into manafacturing their international line of products in India, given the production resources we have. They certainly have a point that I do not know, but they could, rather should have atleast tested waters.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
So, Splendour became the world's largest selling two-wheeler because R1 is available at Rs.10.5Lakhs instead of say Rs.5L-Rs.7Lakhs?
It is about climbing the tree. Do you remember the four wheeler scene in India back in the early 90s? How many cars did we have that were in the 1500 cc range. Then all of suuden we saw a spurt of global players in the Indian market (may I mention with production plants) and gradually the standards started rising in terms of engines, interiorsm, design, etc.
This is what i expect from the two wheeler majors too, bring in the current lineup of semi-premium offerings, manafacture them here, and export the surplus.
This benefits the government in terms of percieved higher economic growth. The organisation in question taps another market for its premium lineup, and could capitalise on better cost structure for exports.
The enthusiast can buy a premium motorcycle from the an offical dealer, get warranty, pay in emis, and eeventually get to the premium motorcycles with peace of mind.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
All I know is I did not have you as my lecturer/faculty during my college days and I dont know whether I was fortunate or unfortunate.
Going by your previous posts on this thread, I would say unfortunate.


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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post

Sir, I think around 60% of India's GDP comes from services sector.
55.1% for 2006-07, so you are quite there! (I googled it)

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
This 'manufacturing facilities implying positive economic growth' is actually a sinking ship and becoming more and more irrelevant. But ofcourse, faith is a funny thing and maybe its this faith that makes us spend on stuff like NREGS (National Rural Employement Gurantee Scheme)
I have read somewhere that economists are of the view that if the a higher growth rate in the tertiary sector is not sustainable and eventually the numbers would crumb below the growth rate of the industrial sector.
This however is what I have read somwhere, and is a viewpoint of a third person and not me. Just though I'd share it here.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
how much will you think an R1 manufacturing activity create?
I really have not worked with an automobile manafacturing company to be able to work on the numbers, but if a company could take up domestic & export purpose based production operations I am certain there would be a reasonable rise in direct and indirect job creation. Any increase in economic growth is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
But now that you are saying its confirmed that they dont manufacture automobiles. Thanks for the clarification, Sir.
You are enlightened now, may the force be with you.

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
One of the regrets I have regarding my educational career is that I didnt study International Trade & Finance.
This you could post on Welcome to www.regret.com! Search Results Powered by OXiDE search ....radical results (TM)

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Originally Posted by NitinGirish View Post
If you can enlighten me on this (putting protectionism to effective use) I will be grateful to you.
For that you will have to start a new thread in the Shifting Gears section.

manson.
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Old 12th December 2008, 10:51   #69
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What thread is this?? honda to launch superbikes?? or economic and automobile growth?? lolse

Anyws whats scene with the launch dates and prices.. sorry i din see the previous pages cos there are some extremely long posts!! grrr
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Old 12th December 2008, 14:12   #70
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For the couple of years I have been on this forum, and a couple of others, I have noticed that almost everyone is mostly willing to help and educate the misinformed and the uninformed unless they are a bucket load of arrogance.
And I hope its not the kind of information being disseminated on this thread. One would end up forgetting whatever one knows.


Looks are subjective, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. I for one could care less what a strager thinks about anything at all.
Thank you. I thought there will be a big hullaboo regarding this.



I for one cannot yet figure out why the four Japanese majors have not ventured into widening their product scope in India. Three of them, namely Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki have fully owned subsidiaries in India.
From a management perspective, adding a vertical should not have been as difficult a task that they have not ventured into manafacturing their international line of products in India, given the production resources we have. They certainly have a point that I do not know, but they could, rather should have atleast tested waters.

'Adding a vertical' needs market and not 'production resources'. 'Production resources' will materialize eventually if there is a market for a good or a service. Think of stuff manufactured in Davangere or Tirupur and the markets they are eventually sold.


It is about climbing the tree. Do you remember the four wheeler scene in India back in the early 90s? How many cars did we have that were in the 1500 cc range. Then all of suuden we saw a spurt of global players in the Indian market (may I mention with production plants) and gradually the standards started rising in terms of engines, interiorsm, design, etc.
This is what i expect from the two wheeler majors too, bring in the current lineup of semi-premium offerings, manafacture them here, and export the surplus.
This benefits the government in terms of percieved higher economic growth. The organisation in question taps another market for its premium lineup, and could capitalise on better cost structure for exports.
The enthusiast can buy a premium motorcycle from the an offical dealer, get warranty, pay in emis, and eeventually get to the premium motorcycles with peace of mind.

So the 1500cc range cars were manufactured here in mid 90's because they were assured protection from Audis, Bentleys, Maybachs, etc.


Going by your previous posts on this thread, I would say unfortunate.
I would dread to think what might have become of me if my economics lecturer was fuddy duddy from 70s era who would give me gems like the one above regarding 'production resources' and virtues of protectionism .


55.1% for 2006-07, so you are quite there! (I googled it)
Not bad isnt it? Considering I didnt have to google for it


I have read somewhere that economists are of the view that if the a higher growth rate in the tertiary sector is not sustainable and eventually the numbers would crumb below the growth rate of the industrial sector.
This however is what I have read somwhere, and is a viewpoint of a third person and not me. Just though I'd share it here.

Havent read anything to this effect. Maybe they are talking of skill shortage that we are facing. Highly unlikely that we are going to build a reputation for ourselves in manufacturing now, especially with China around. Not that we are bad at it, but India is widely perceived as services destination. In any case, services sector contributing lion's share of GDP is a sign of 'positive economic growth' and a characteristic observed in all 'developed' economies. Dont know how much sense it would make to retract from here, if at all thats possible.


I really have not worked with an automobile manafacturing company to be able to work on the numbers, but if a company could take up domestic & export purpose based production operations I am certain there would be a reasonable rise in direct and indirect job creation. Any increase in economic growth is a good thing.
And economic growth doesnt come from creating barriers for trade. If there was scale, the Indian arm of the Japnese majors would have already started manufacturing superbikes here. And that is what I have been telling since the beginning. The scale of it all is so damn small, it ceases to make any impact to the companies, government or economy. All it does is, deny enthusiasts their fun. Spendours & Pulsars wont go out of business because a 800cc or 1000cc bike is available for 5 or 8 lakhs.

Infact thats the best thing to happen. Once the ridiculous duties (or whatever is forced down our throat) are abolished and people start buying superbikes, these guys just might find it profitable to manufacture it here. But with current state of affairs, having prohibitive price owing to duties, lack of demand thereof and eventually lack of interest among automobile companies to cater to these segment reasonably, nobody is benefitting.

When we have accepted that we do not care who the capitalists are there is no reason to block free trade. Atleast maximum efforts should be expended to avoid creating barriers for free trade. Unless of course we go back to Shri M.K Gandhi's era and boycott all 'foreign' stuff



This you could post on Welcome to www.regret.com! Search Results Powered by OXiDE search ....radical results (TM)

For that you will have to start a new thread in the Shifting Gears section.

Well, I thought you can enlighten me here also. Thanks for the link. Nah, not interested in starting another thread. After reading some of the posts here, picking up info on the said thing looks like a scary proposition to me.
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Old 12th December 2008, 15:41   #71
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All right guys enough of this.
Lets just agree to disagree & keep the posts restricted to Honda's Superbike launch plans.
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Old 12th December 2008, 19:42   #72
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Lets just agree to disagree & keep the posts restricted to Honda's Superbike launch plans.
+1. No more from me atleast.

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Old 12th December 2008, 22:00   #73
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All right guys enough of this.
Lets just agree to disagree & keep the posts restricted to Honda's Superbike launch plans.
Yes, thank you. Please stop this from continuing, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
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Old 13th December 2008, 12:02   #74
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Sorry guys for going OT. cheers:
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Old 23rd January 2009, 17:47   #75
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Thumbs up Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade and CB1000R to be launched soon!

MODS: I searched around for a topic on this but didn't find it. Please merge threads if required. Thank you.

From the latest issue of BikeIndia:

The Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade will be available in India sometime around Feb-Mar 2009 at a price lesser than its rivals from Yamaha, the R1 and Suzuki, the mighty Hayabusa.

Soon after the 'Blade, the company will launch the CB1000R, which is an absolutely stunning bike (my opinion). It will be priced lower than the flagship model.

Honda is doing the right thing by spicing up the market. For most of us even the cheaper SBKs are out of reach but it is a good move nonetheless.

This news is not hearsay since Honda had invited bike journos over to Japan in an effort to identify the best vehicles for Indian conditions. Editor of Bike India, Aspi Bathena had attended the event.

I'm stoked.
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