As Harley enters India, sales of superbikes rise

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by gthang

Lets agree to disagree on some things. If you do, let me state some opinions.

Of course, that is the beauty of being around on a great forum like this.

Are they good enough for Indian roads? Yes.

Maybe. Honestly, you cannot judge this till they really are ridden around quite a bit. Saturday night pub crawls don't count.

Is a well handling, high performance superbike being used to its full potential in India? No.

Of course. Like our friend, VLOCT said in a post, Only the likes of Stoner and Rossi can use anywhere near 70% of an SBKs potential.

Is it comfortable enough for everyday usage in India? Yes.

Nope. Riding in Indian traffic simply isn't what HDs will revel at. This, considering their ponderous handling and of course the thigh roasting heat that the air cooler V-Twin radiates. With the improvement of Indian highways, touring might become real but then again, it remains an exorbitantly priced tourer.

Can I expect reasonable level of reliability for typical Indian user? Yes.

I agree.

When Harleys are considered premium motorcycles in the rest of the world, why should it be different in India? Still, the entry level Harley is the cheapest superbike available in India today.

Because India isn't America or Europe and HD really wants to capture a large market, the pricing needs to come down. I remember some talk about a low cost HD for India. Let's hope it arrives.

Why would Harley abandon its "Made in America" USP and start manufacturing in India to appease the large Middle class biker segment?

Why did they do it in Thailand/Singapore then? They'll make it where the manufacturing cost is the lowest. Survival tool in these tough times.

Why not the large middle class biker community appeal to the govt to reduce import taxes instead? Not possible?

This is something that really needs to be done.

At least Harley actually tried. Has the entry of Harley to India increased sale of superbikes in India? NO. It actually started the sale of superbikes in India. So, the question of increase is moot.

Isn't that what Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki doing or do you mean sale in exclusive showrooms with service centers?

That's about it.

Cheers,

Jay

[gthang]

FYI,

I have been riding an XL1200N Nightster for just over a year now with odo reading ~5000 km, and I use it for town riding, some long distance, and just for fun trips to nowhere. It is extremely comfortable on the road. I can cruise comfortably 100-120, with plenty of power left. Little bouncy on rough roads, but leagues better than any Indian bikes. Sure, my Honda CB1000R is a lot more comfortable and faster than the Harley, but the V twin experience cannot be duplicated.

I have had no problems with handling Indian traffic nor the heat issues you are predicting. Sure, its hot, but I'm not straddling the engine. Sure, it blows hot air on your legs, but what the hell are you doing riding without proper pants and shoes anyways? I suggest you take a test ride of a Harley to really understand how well balanced these bikes are. I cannot vouch for the big monsters like the Electra Glide, but as I have mentioned earlier in other posts, the Sportster is the best bike for India.

Did Harley start up in Thailand/Singapore with local assembly? These were well mature markets already with a long standing history with Harley and strong HOG membership. I'm sure once Indian market matures and it is economically viable, they might go that route. You think Harley wants to deal with Indian customs with every shipment? I sure wouldnt.

When I say that Harley started the sale of superbikes, what I mean is that Harley and the US govt. is responsible for amending the Indian govt import rules for motorcycles. The japs were just the first to take advantage of the rule change. It was easy for them because they already had an existing dealer network for the sales, and service, well, thats a different story. I too was able to import my Harley brand new and register without any hassles thanks to this.

Its easy to say why dont they bring in this vehicle or that vehicle to India, it would be perfect for our conditions, needs, etc, etc. But please try to understand why its not possible with our govt and its protectionist laws. If Harley hadnt taken the initiative and made the rule change possible, we wouldnt be having this discussion today. Thats why I said its a moot point whether sales are increasing or not. There would have been no sale at all.

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by gthang

FYI,

I have been riding an XL1200N Nightster for just over a year now with odo reading ~5000 km, and I use it for town riding, some long distance, and just for fun trips to nowhere. It is extremely comfortable on the road. I can cruise comfortably 100-120, with plenty of power left. Little bouncy on rough roads, but leagues better than any Indian bikes. Sure, my Honda CB1000R is a lot more comfortable and faster than the Harley, but the V twin experience cannot be duplicated.

I have had no problems with handling Indian traffic nor the heat issues you are predicting. Sure, its hot, but I'm not straddling the engine. Sure, it blows hot air on your legs, but what the hell are you doing riding without proper pants and shoes anyways? I suggest you take a test ride of a Harley to really understand how well balanced these bikes are. I cannot vouch for the big monsters like the Electra Glide, but as I have mentioned earlier in other posts, the Sportster is the best bike for India.

Did Harley start up in Thailand/Singapore with local assembly? These were well mature markets already with a long standing history with Harley and strong HOG membership. I'm sure once Indian market matures and it is economically viable, they might go that route. You think Harley wants to deal with Indian customs with every shipment? I sure wouldnt.

When I say that Harley started the sale of superbikes, what I mean is that Harley and the US govt. is responsible for amending the Indian govt import rules for motorcycles. The japs were just the first to take advantage of the rule change. It was easy for them because they already had an existing dealer network for the sales, and service, well, thats a different story. I too was able to import my Harley brand new and register without any hassles thanks to this.

Its easy to say why dont they bring in this vehicle or that vehicle to India, it would be perfect for our conditions, needs, etc, etc. But please try to understand why its not possible with our govt and its protectionist laws. If Harley hadnt taken the initiative and made the rule change possible, we wouldnt be having this discussion today. Thats why I said its a moot point whether sales are increasing or not. There would have been no sale at all.

So you ride a Harley as well as a CBR1000. Wonderful to hear this. In all humility, I am not going to comment further on this as you own two big, diverse motorcycles and you'll surely be better place to enumerate your experiences. IMHO you're the best person to give us an opinion on HDs. Please post pics as well as riding experiences. All said, I only hope that the era of more affordable HDs arrives soon. I'd like one for myself, the simplest one.

Cheers,

Jay

[shrini78]

I gotta jump into this thread now... I ride one

There is a saying in Harley

"If I had to tell you, you wouldn't understand"

The bike, its culture, history, V-Twin, the roar, the HOG, its an experience you'll get it once you are on it...I bet my bottom bost dollar you wont get that in any metric bikes

[gthang]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

So you ride a Harley as well as a CBR1000. Wonderful to hear this. In all humility, I am not going to comment further on this as you own two big, diverse motorcycles and you'll surely be better place to enumerate your experiences. IMHO you're the best person to give us an opinion on HDs. Please post pics as well as riding experiences. All said, I only hope that the era of more affordable HDs arrives soon. I'd like one for myself, the simplest one.

Cheers,

Jay

I very seldom post replies unless I am sure or passionate about some things. I am sure that Harley coming to India is a good thing for motorcycling as a whole for India. But I cant stand for people dismissing it as a desperate attempt at rescuing an ailing company. Sure, the economics of it are important to survive, but at least appreciate the efforts that they are doing in terms of changing the whole marketplace for all of us.

I had posted some pics of my rides on an earlier thread. Check it out here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...cbr-1000r.html

I had also created a thread for some technical issues with fuel RON affecting my Harley. Here:http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...lp-needed.html

Waiting for Harley rep to get back to GTO who hopefully will get back to me about a possible ECU remap for Indian fuel.

Cheers and ride safe.

[ku69rd]

Hi All,
Believe HD is also planning to develop and roll out a 500CC specifically for Indian Market. Happened to read the article which am unable to recollect (the source). To be quite frank the professionalism and attitude shown by HD tells us that they are serious about Indian Market and not doing lip service.
Understand HD runs on outdated technology but guys Bullet also does the same(agree of recent times they have had some serious look ups in their engine design).
HD would remain a brand which is like either you love it or hate it, pretty sure many people love to hate it So far the kind of reception they have got from Indian Market is unbelievable which HD themselves acknowledge far exceeds their expectations.

Remember buying HD means its all about acquiring a lifestyle. Not just a bike.

[Haroon]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Hi All,
Believe HD is also planning to develop and roll out a 500CC specifically for Indian Market. Happened to read the article which am unable to recollect (the source).

The June 2011 issue of Motorcyclistonline mentions about something on these lines:

Will Harley-Davidson outsource motorcycle production to India? - Motorcyclist magazine

[ku69rd]

aahhh !!! there you go thanks for the link up and on the contrary would say with HD's entry it does the spur the thought in everyone's mind on buying the bigger displacement bikes. They have offered attractive financial plans to help you assist/aspire closer to buy a SBK.
If you realistically look at their entry level bikes they are very much similar to hatchbacks in terms of price/maintenance. You also get the added advantage of HD being a brand in itself and well renowned coupled with street presence.
People in their mid 30's with good disposable income find it attractive to own one along with ooomph factor it generates.
Personally not against people in their 40's trying these bikes but i guess priorities in life would change when they approach the age with growing kids, educational demands of their kids...you know better Indian middle income section.

[EssYouWe]

Originally Posted by Haroon

The June 2011 issue of Motorcyclistonline mentions about something on these lines:

Will Harley-Davidson outsource motorcycle production to India? - Motorcyclist magazine

Ah there you go! This would be a very good news indeed.

I am kind of apprehensive about the design, what with the Mojo fiasco by the Engines Engineering guys.

I hope its a 500cc twin.

[makanaka]

hello friends,
i could not agree more with you gthang on most parts, i do wonder why people shun down on harley for being overpriced while in the same breath they would claim that ducati is niche, again people who call these hd's outdated often compare it with their jap siblings, i do not think that should be the standard for comparison, i for one owned a re standard and inspite of all its flaws i loved that bike because the joy it gave me was much more than what it troubled me for, we just cannot compare an import with muscle cars and likewise with bikes, the joy of riding or owning a v twin well just cannot be described in words, i know a few people who own sbk's like R1 and Busa but still when i see or hear a harley ooohh boy do i get happy or what, once jeremy clarkson was asked that why a ferrari over a lambo, he said because with ferrari you dont just buy a car you get to become a part of its legacy, its legend and you simply cannot put a price on that, there may be better cars, faster or technologically more superior but they would not be a ferrari, same is the case with hd, anyway the point i am trying to make, its a product at the end of the day and what a product it is, it has an unparalleled fan following, even dudettes love to ride it and im not saying just as pillions, its connotes a lifestyle not just a bike , for some it has simply become a way of life, we cannot bash hd for making profits or trying to be different, some things are better left unchanged, i for one would never want an uninspiring japanese so called bomb proof engine which to my ears just sounds like a powerful electric shaver, i would rather stick with a flawed true v twin , but then again its totally my perspective, you are free to have your own but dont criticize others for having one, again though this i state from pure speculation but i guess it would not be very economical to establish a whole new plant here without testing some waters first, honda being here for years still imports crv as a cbu, (it may have changed now but that was the status a few years ago) its just financial viability and marketing, anyway bottomline i am not trying to make a point but rather defend a brand i love, i for one have extremely limited vision and i am biased and my opinion and perspective is often skewed and flawed but if i do not understand something i do not jump the gun and begin to criticize it, i would request you to do as well friends, i am no jap engine hater though i may sound like one sometimes, its just that bikes like harley and re's are not everyone's cup of tea and i am quite sure if they were then they would not have the same following as they have today, its about the bike at the end of the day and lets be happy that the hd was amongst the first true cruisers to arrive, give them some time i am sure the market forces will bring their products within range of a lot of us soon enough,
p.s. no offense meant to anyone or any bike

[gthang]

Originally Posted by EssYouWe

I hope its a 500cc twin.

From what a little birdie told me, it might be 750cc V twin in 3-4 lakhs range.

Hope they get rolling soon enough. Harley is committed but a tad slow.

Cheers

Ride Safe.

[ksanjee]

I have noticed that the term superbkes is used for pretty much every big bike. Although HD did venture into AMA superbike racing a while back. I remember Pascale Picotte riding one at Sears point and he had ridden Ferracci ducatis before. It was good to see a new manufacturer in the series but their efforts died with poor results.

There are plenty of twin cylinder bikes out there if that is what you are shopping for. In fact HD created this genre of bikes and other manufacturers followed suite with the "V-Twin rumble" marketing message [intruder etc.] However, none has been able to create the kind of appeal that HD has managed to. Movies like Easy Rider ushered choppers [for better or for worse!] - individual freedom and nonconformity were the two buzzwords..

Their attempt at producing a modern bike with the VROD [derived from their racing efforts] was a failure. They used Porsche's engg prowess for engine design and were fairly critical about producing a quality product. Ex: They did not stick a radiator in the frame fully exposed - they considered that aesthetically unpleasant. VROD failed to attract the HD crowd. That goes to show that HD buyers are not exactly looking for the latest and greatest. Rock solid reliability is not what they are looking for either.

I personally did not like the VROD. The one l like the most is Wade Garett's bike from the movie Road House - esp. when he pulls in front of Double Duece. I used to ride my Duck with a friend who owned a HD sportster. He loved that bike and put on a lot of fairly trouble-free miles. Although I would disappear and wait at a coffee shop for him to catch up.

In the US, HD does have a cult following but the image is tainted with Hells Angles etc. I realized in 1993 that a lot of the typical HD riders don't wave to riders on other brands. I was riding my FZR and waved at a HD rider and he waved back. Then I saw a couple of HDs behind me. This is fairly widespread. The other aspect is the noise level. Some of these riders bolt on incredibly loud pipes that can really annoy anyone that isn't a HD follower. COPS crack down on Ducs with CF termis/arrow/leovinci while the loud HDs are allowed to parade around.

I visited a HD dealer in San Jose and was surprised to see the premium's these bikes were carrying in mid/late 90s. Even used bikes sold in excess of MSRP. I was not interested in buying one but just wanted to see them close up. Now a days, after their financial woes, they can be had fairly cheap in the US [used examples]

I would like to own one some time..but other bikes like the Bimota Tesi 1D and the 888 SP4 are ahead inline..

Krishna

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by ksanjee

In the US, HD does have a cult following but the image is tainted with Hells Angles etc. I realized in 1993 that a lot of the typical HD riders don't wave to riders on other brands. I was riding my FZR and waved at a HD rider and he waved back. Then I saw a couple of HDs behind me.

Krishna

Well guess its the same in India (atleast with me), Brotherhood is more on branding/equal footing i suppose, can't quite explain why it is like that.

For Ex: Have seen bullet riders wave their hand to me whenever am riding my Yam 350 but i do not return it. Do it only for people whom i know or another Yam Rider.

[volkman10]

"Harley-Davidson has launched the Fat Boy Special in India. The Fat Boy Special is priced at Rs. 19,70,000/- (ex-showroom Delhi) and will be imported as a completely built unit. It is available across all Harley-Davidson dealerships in addition to the 14 models currently available in the 2011 line-up"

Harley-Davidson Launches Fat Boy Special | MotorBeam - Indian Car Bike News & Reviews

[ku69rd]

They even have a street bob custom to their growing list of models, felt that the street bob is their best one till date.