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Old 11th November 2010, 08:51   #31
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Yay!

It's great to see a premium brand take this much interest in the India motorcycle market. It's big of Harley to come to India and not only set shop, but also decide to localize and assemble their products here. I guess they want to be the first ones to enjoy the Indian niche market.

So the positives achieved by this would be lower prices, right? Would the drop in prices be substantial enough once the company starts assembling the bikes? What would be the break-down cost of say, a Sportster?

The dealership needs to be complimented by a well established service-centre run by well-trained mechanics and professionals. They need to expand and set-up shop in various other metros as well. But I guess all this will happen in due-time. Great to see HD taking our motorcycle-market seriously, and sincerely hope other companies follow-suit!
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Old 11th November 2010, 08:56   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luky_13 View Post
In my opinion HD, India doesn't need a very elaborate arrangement to assemble bikes in Gurgaon. Targets for the first year are a meagre 200, not very ambitious i must say for a giant. HD knows that India is an extremely cost sensitive market and thats why they have taken this rare call of assembling their 'Made in USA' bikes on our soil. They wouldn't have taken this step unless it were for major cost savings.

The duty breakup is as follows
1. Peak customs duty on CKD = 10%
2. CVD, Counter Veiling duty = 8%
3. SAD, Spl additional duty = 4%
4. Misc = 4%
Total = 26%, average it out to 30%

Refer Custom Duty :: SIAM , heading no. 87.11*
Even if the Duty is reduced to around 30% , the entire benefits will not be passed to the customers.
Moreover they wud still want their bike to be pricier than the upcoming Hyosungs to maintain their brand.
I expect a price drop of 30% on the sportster to make it a 5-5.5 L OTR bike.
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Old 11th November 2010, 09:29   #33
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Now the obvious question for me..
There are so many H-D bashers...proclaimin stoneage technology, tattoo riders, blah,blah,blah...
(on my experience) Either you on a H-D or you aint..
When H-D reduces the price will all these so called H-D bashers will they ride one or still stick to their principles of H-D bashing
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:19   #34
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Originally Posted by shrini78 View Post
Now the obvious question for me..
There are so many H-D bashers...proclaimin stoneage technology, tattoo riders, blah,blah,blah...
(on my experience) Either you on a H-D or you aint..
When H-D reduces the price will all these so called H-D bashers will they ride one or still stick to their principles of H-D bashing
Shrini interesting point of view, although controversial. Each one of us has likes and dislikes, but the idea is to respect each other opinions. Harley's radiate class and heritage, with the proclaimed stoneage technology they have managed to survive a 100 years and thats a feat. The Japs and the Koreans have mimicked the harley styling for a while, now that tells a story...
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Old 11th November 2010, 13:36   #35
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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Is it fair to compare CKD assembly plants of car manufacturers with bike makers? The infrastructure will be drastically different.

Their primary goal in making a plant here is to reduce cost. If govt. isnt going to reduce taxes, they have no other choice. They need to sell bikes to survive. Their domestic market is shrinking, and as you might have heard, India is booming. Obviously they will reduce from current prices. And assembling one range or complete range should not make a big difference in facility setup.
Nope CKD assembly plants for cars will require more investment, more man-power...oh lets not forget QC and training. HD needs to tap into the local market as well as neighboring countries. Who knows they might develop a local hub for manufacturing the bikes to markets in Asia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axp817 View Post

Here is my prediction,
- The Sportster family, and probably not the entire line up, will be available as CKDs.

- The models that are available as CKDs, will not be available as CBUs, of course.

- The CKD models won't be more than 25-30% cheaper than if they were sold as CBUs. Of course, the same models won't be available as CBUs at that point, so there won't be a reference point, but we can come back to the 2010 HD India price list to make comparisons.
Praying that your prediction comes out true. Very realistic pricing is what should be primary for HD India. Better pricing will definitely help them realize more sales, which will be a win-win situation. I am sure HD is also under some pressure from the news of Hyosung ST-7 release. Though many might argue that both the brands are poles apart, there will still be buyers who will opt for the Hyosung since it might be cheaper to own. That would eat into the HD numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luky_13 View Post
In my opinion HD, India doesn't need a very elaborate arrangement to assemble bikes in Gurgaon. Targets for the first year are a meagre 200, not very ambitious i must say for a giant. HD knows that India is an extremely cost sensitive market and thats why they have taken this rare call of assembling their 'Made in USA' bikes on our soil. They wouldn't have taken this step unless it were for major cost savings.

The duty breakup is as follows
1. Peak customs duty on CKD = 10%
2. CVD, Counter Veiling duty = 8%
3. SAD, Spl additional duty = 4%
4. Misc = 4%
Total = 26%, average it out to 30%

Refer Custom Duty :: SIAM , heading no. 87.11*
+1 this has been discussed else where on the forum earlier.

Last edited by downsouth : 11th November 2010 at 13:37.
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Old 11th November 2010, 13:44   #36
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Even if they'll be relatively cheaper to buy, what is HD's reputation in terms of ownership costs and reliability.
That's also a major factor for sales.
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Old 11th November 2010, 15:07   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy.S View Post
The auto section of the Hindu carried this news today.
I get the feeling that costs will not come down that much. HD would probably not want to lose the 'premium product' tag by slashing prices by 80%. 15% or so seems to be a more realistic figure.
I hope I'm wrong.
HD is a lifestyle product, not a 'premium product' it happens to be in the lifestyle of rich people. But technically its not a premium product like the 'mercedes' which is a premium car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
Even if they'll be relatively cheaper to buy, what is HD's reputation in terms of ownership costs and reliability.
That's also a major factor for sales.
That I am sure No one will question. I for sure will not. And I don't know many who would question the current harleys reliability.

Even if we do a basic calculation that the current cheapest harley is being sold for 8.5 lacs OTR, this with 110 percent tax, even if we get a 30 % cut over the current price, we will get the cheapest harely in around 6 lacs OTR, which is a definate plus. Mind you the current price obviously factors in profits for the company.

But knowing the history of car makers viz : skoda, vw, they all started by selling CBUs, but when eventually they started the CKD facitliy in India, they did not pass on the benefit to the Customer.

Also car / bike business is not about immediate returns, its about establishing and not about per piece returns, but about the numbers.

So we will have to wait and watch.

cheers,
ac
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Old 11th November 2010, 15:20   #38
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I think if we really want to compare prices we should really be looking at the prices that an HD is sold at, in Brazil. That is the only country outside of USA that HD has been assembling bikes since 1999. I am not saying that the brazil prices are comparable but can be indicative of what is to come in terms of pricing. And as someone pointed out, I wouldnt be surprised if HD India decides not to pass on the benefits as we have seen with car manufacturers like Skoda. Frankly speaking a Skoda should not be priced so high at all! It is dirt abroad and still no one bothers buying them.
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Old 15th November 2010, 15:05   #39
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Somewhere in the following articles states that that import tarrifs would be reduced to 40% once the assembling start in HD, India. The revised prices are likely to be announced in Jan' 2011. Which means, the prices would come down by roughly around 30% of the existing prices should HD, India decide to pass on all the benefits to the customers.

Harley-Davidson: On the fast track - Rediff.com Business

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Old 15th November 2010, 15:10   #40
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to borrow a leaf from Mr Bhanot's book (a la CWG) - Indian Standards and Western Standards are "different".

Fact is that we have been starved for good stuff ever since Independence.
Now that we are beginning to get access and see the differences in quality etc, we are appreciating the finish and quality aspects of cars like the Skoda.
Going forward as we evolve to a greater extent, and provided our pockets also continue to evolve in line with our tastes, we also will learn to discriminate better.
Until then, all car manufacturers will decide on and charge whatever premium they can, since the consumer appears willing to pay!

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Frankly speaking a Skoda should not be priced so high at all! It is dirt abroad and still no one bothers buying them.
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Old 15th November 2010, 16:47   #41
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Visited the HD showroom in Hyderabad on Saturday to get some inputs from them. Surprisingly one of the 'Sales Consultant' told me they have information from HD India that only the High-end bikes will take the CKD route, the 883 Roadster/Sportster will still come come via CBU.

oh BTW forgot to mention that they are still pushing the fancy clutch plate "First ride in India" thing that it was premium and it would command a better price.

Also one of the 'Sales consultants' told me that HD offers 2 liquid cooled bikes the V-rod and Nightster XL1200 R , when prodded that it does not a fan at the back, she did not have an answer.

Anyway I had a good laugh, asked them to give me a call once they have some credible news about CKD pricing, I should not have bothered to speak to the them in the first place I guess.

One of the sales people was kind enough to send me a follow up email from the dealership with all the details ...in the terms and condition they have mentioned

"6 Payment is to be made in full before delivery."


"9 The registration of the vehicle & issue of registration certificate is at the discretion of Andhra Pradesh Transport Authority. RC is expected in 60days."

Ok I guess I have ranted enough for today
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Old 15th November 2010, 17:14   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downsouth View Post
Surprisingly one of the 'Sales Consultant' told me they have information from HD India that only the High-end bikes will take the CKD route, the 883 Roadster/Sportster will still come come via CBU.
It's actually the other way round, 1200 cc. and smaller bikes will be available as CKDs (the Sportster family, basically), the rest will be CBUs. Savings on the CKDs will be ~ 25% over CBU variants of the same model, not more.

This information is from a Harley India source.
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Old 15th November 2010, 17:30   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post

Fact is that we have been starved for good stuff ever since Independence.
Now that we are beginning to get access and see the differences in quality etc, we are appreciating the finish and quality aspects of cars like the Skoda.
Going forward as we evolve to a greater extent, and provided our pockets also continue to evolve in line with our tastes, we also will learn to discriminate better.
I am sorry to mention but the Fit and Finish on the HD's were not on par, if anyone from HYD can go over to the the showroom and look at the exhaust of XL1200 Nightster on display you will know what I am talking about, BTW this particular model costs 11.8 on road. One of my guys at work bought a hunk today for 78K the exhaust on this looks so much better. What I meant to get across was that the build does not do justice for the premium/lifestyle/import tag for the bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axp817 View Post
It's actually the other way round, 1200 cc. and smaller bikes will be available as CKDs (the Sportster family, basically), the rest will be CBUs. Savings on the CKDs will be ~ 25% over CBU variants of the same model, not more.

This information is from a Harley India source.
+1

Sir, you did not notice my smiley, I was indeed LOL at the statement made by the sales consultant.
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Old 15th November 2010, 19:04   #44
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Originally Posted by downsouth View Post

+1

Sir, you did not notice my smiley, I was indeed LOL at the statement made by the sales consultant.
Yes, I know what you meant. I was just corroborating what you were implying, with what I had heard this weekend.
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Old 15th November 2010, 21:42   #45
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Originally Posted by downsouth View Post
I am sorry to mention but the Fit and Finish on the HD's were not on par, if anyone from HYD can go over to the the showroom and look at the exhaust of XL1200 Nightster on display you will know what I am talking about, BTW this particular model costs 11.8 on road. One of my guys at work bought a hunk today for 78K the exhaust on this looks so much better. What I meant to get across was that the build does not do justice for the premium/lifestyle/import tag for the bike.
This is not much of an issue with Harley customers. Back in 2000, the tail lamp cover of my new Sportster 883C fell off while riding (luckily got it replaced under warranty after making some noise!). Another friends Softail Springer's silencer fell off at a roundabout and two years back I met a Night-Rod rider whose 2 month old bike's rear brake caliper came loose with both the fastening bolts missing. Ofcourse, except me the others have still not switched loyalty and continue as die-hard harley fans. So such things can happen on Harleys, but the tradition, bar & shield logo & lifestyle thingy overtakes all those niggles and people still dont mind living with & paying premium prices for the whole Harley experience. Besides, say if you buy any Harley in 2010, even in the year 2030, your bike is still not 'an old harley'.....it will still be called 'a harley'!
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