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Old 18th April 2012, 13:54   #76
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

The XUV is definitely a path breaking effort from the Mahindra people. It is by no means a primitive, 'due for replacement' model from foreign shores dumped here. The mechanical parts are good and so are most of the electricals. It is only with the electronics that they have run into a fair number of niggle. As someone else has pointed out, niggles are only niggles and not particularly life threatening. Like a boil on your elbow maybe. Irritating, but not debilitating!
For all those who have bought an XUV and are writing in their complaints, I have a word of advice.; you are getting an upmarket looking vehicle which can carry 5 in great style and 7 at a stretch. You have a proven engine which can do 160 which nothing else in its category and very few in higher cats can manage.
There is simply no comparison with the Innova which while being a reliable people carrier, has no style, no features to speak of and is limited to 100-110 cruise speeds. It is like a Hero Honda motor Splendor while the XUV is like a Pulsar 220. Both can carry people places but there is an excitement about the XUV that will never be matched by an Innova even if it is Peted or potted on steroids.
The XUV is targeting a different crowd and it is often those who are older but wannabe 'youngster' who find the XUV a proble. Others ( the real yuppies) find it an excellent cruiser which gives them the 'pimped ride' fell while being a reliable ride. The niggles that are there will go away with some TLC. Give Mahindra some credit for doing something different instead of only making 7 versions of the Logan / Verito that a Maruti would have done
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Old 18th April 2012, 15:34   #77
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by fiestarry View Post
The XUV is definitely a path breaking effort from the Mahindra people. It is by no means a primitive, 'due for replacement' model from foreign shores dumped here. The mechanical parts are good and so are most of the electricals. It is only with the electronics that they have run into a fair number of niggle. As someone else has pointed out, niggles are only niggles and not particularly life threatening. Like a boil on your elbow maybe. Irritating, but not debilitating!
Thank you! There is atleast someone who thinks like me...

I own an Innova but I am not blinded in love by Toyota. I find the XUV much more exciting. And infact, I would be replacing the Innova with the XUV, in some time.

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For all those who have bought an XUV and are writing in their complaints, I have a word of advice.; you are getting an upmarket looking vehicle which can carry 5 in great style and 7 at a stretch. You have a proven engine which can do 160 which nothing else in its category and very few in higher cats can manage.
+10.

The only area where the Innova trumps the XUV is the third row space. I did not have a problem with the fit & finish nor the overall quality of plastics in the XUV, as I do need to consider that I am getting a feature loaded and comfortable vehicle built on a monocoque chassis with all possible safety features for same or lesser money.

Quote:
There is simply no comparison with the Innova which while being a reliable people carrier, has no style, no features to speak of and is limited to 100-110 cruise speeds. It is like a Hero Honda motor Splendor while the XUV is like a Pulsar 220. Both can carry people places but there is an excitement about the XUV that will never be matched by an Innova even if it is Peted or potted on steroids.
Again +10.

Quote:
The XUV is targeting a different crowd and it is often those who are older but wannabe 'youngster' who find the XUV a proble. Others ( the real yuppies) find it an excellent cruiser which gives them the 'pimped ride' fell while being a reliable ride. The niggles that are there will go away with some TLC. Give Mahindra some credit for doing something different instead of only making 7 versions of the Logan / Verito that a Maruti would have done
Its simple. You win some, you lose some.

IMHO, the only factor which you lose when you buy the XUV over an Innova is the status associated with Toyota. For those who see the insignia on the grille before the car, the Innova it is. For the rest, its the XUV.
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Old 18th April 2012, 16:04   #78
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

The Innova is a reliable people carrier. I have driven it thousands of miles and been a passenger in dozens of them. I have nothing against the vehicle but dont like the Toyota attitude. Can't they upgrade their 102 Hp engine? Can they not do something about the body roll? Is this the best Toyota can give India for 10-16 lakhs ?
The engine sounds like a grain thresher in heat after 100 kph, what NVH. It is agonising to overtake at 90- 100 kph on the highways. But then it never staked a claim for the role of a soft road SUV. This is the mischief of those who compare it with SUVs and XUVs. The Innova is a good MUV in the Tavera, Xylo category and beats them hollow for fit, finish and quality but achieves that by asking you to pay an astronomical sum. The Tavera has a better ride and the Xylo a far superior free running engine.
For sheer value coupled with reliability , the Tavera and Xylo have the Innova thrashed into a distant third place.
The XUV on the other hand is a great product from a thinking manufacturer. Mahindra & M have done what no other Indian or foreign manufacturer would ever get arpound to doing. They have designed and put on the roads a Gaadi to meet the aspirations of the upwardly mobile and burgeoning middle class. No Marti or Hyundai does that. They make dinky cars and push it through with excellent marketing. Mahindra's product was lusted after by millions and will be bought by lakhs because it gives them at 10 -12 lakhs what a Hyundai can't at 22L. VFM, style, gizmos, low T-lag engines and above all compactness.
I am working up the courage to create a new thread on " what is a good car for India". Lets see when it happens
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Old 18th April 2012, 16:38   #79
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by fiestarry View Post
The Innova is a reliable people carrier. I have driven it thousands of miles and been a passenger in dozens of them. I have nothing against the vehicle but dont like the Toyota attitude. Can't they upgrade their 102 Hp engine? Can they not do something about the body roll? Is this the best Toyota can give India for 10-16 lakhs ?
The engine sounds like a grain thresher in heat after 100 kph, what NVH. It is agonising to overtake at 90- 100 kph on the highways.
Isn't Price something thats governed by the rules of the market. The basic demand and supply equation? The Innova at 16L finds buyers who are ready to even wait for a couple of months for there car, month after month. Then how is it overpriced because a few hardcore fans may take the plunge but the larger public will stay away from the vehicle and it will not see the numbers that it does. So I think all this talk of it being overpriced are pointless and at best wishful thinking. Ofcourse who would not love to see the Ertiga and XUV eat into the Innova's market and then force Toyota to slash prices. But thats a whole different story altogether and too early to predict.

You talk about the higher NVH levels as a fault in the Innova but are ready to live with the so called "Niggles" in the XUV? Just the other day I was talking to member Nitin on the Delhi Meet who owns the XUV. The front LED lights of his brand new XUV have already failed and this small niggle will cost him a bomb to replace. XUV is still a new kid on the block and has to prove itself. Also how many Innova buyers are actually going for the XUV? I don't see any drop in Innova numbers since the launch of the XUV. So maybe its eating into the territory of Scorpio and Safari.

Having said that both the cars are aimed at totally different buyers I feel. They both have there pros and cons and it all boils down to what one is looking out for. My dad would always opt for the Innova whereas I would mostly opt for the XUV.
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Old 18th April 2012, 22:05   #80
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

True. My Brother in law, recently sold his 120000km(one lac and twenty thousand) done innova(G), and has purchased again Innova(V). I have suggested him XUV 500, and he went for test drive as well. But finally he has chosen only Innova.

Point to be noted is , he has booked XUV 500 and got selected in the lucky draw as well. But still he did not go for it.

Looks like as drmohitg said, XUV is still baby and it needs to prove its credibility. But Innova is proven horse and tested by atleast half a million people. My 2 cents.
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Old 19th April 2012, 19:46   #81
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
The only area where the Innova trumps the XUV is the third row space. I did not have a problem with the fit & finish nor the overall quality of plastics in the XUV, as I do need to consider that I am getting a feature loaded and comfortable vehicle built on a monocoque chassis with all possible safety features for same or lesser money
The difference in plastics quality is not negligible. Look at the quality of grills or the dashboard in the Innova and comapare it to the finish in XUV. Pull the parking brake in both and compare the sounds you get - crisp crunch in one and creaky, screechy in another.
Feature loaded the XUV is but not comfortable to own for me unless MnM sorts out the niggles fast. I simply do not like spending time in the service centre, trying to iron out niggles that should not have been there in the first place.

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
IMHO, the only factor which you lose when you buy the XUV over an Innova is the status associated with Toyota. For those who see the insignia on the grille before the car, the Innova it is. For the rest, its the XUV.
I agree that what you lose would depend on what what one wants in the first place. While you may not miss, many others may also lose on peace of mind, service experience, better internal environment, better plastics, space, higher engine life, bulletproof reliability etc etc.
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Originally Posted by fiestarry View Post
The Innova is a reliable people carrier. I have driven it thousands of miles and been a passenger in dozens of them. I have nothing against the vehicle but dont like the Toyota attitude. Can't they upgrade their 102 Hp engine? Can they not do something about the body roll?
The engine is certainly something that can be upgraded but contrary to what the figures suggest, I have never found my car lacking on power. It does 120 easily and canters upto 155-160 if required. It is a minivan and expecting it to be a Ferrari, especially at this price point is expecting too much.
Body roll, yes can be better but see the market and tell me which people carrier has a lower body roll compared to Innova. It has one of the most level ride quality this side of INR 25 lakhs and that is one of the reasons it is a preferred taxi on long drives and the most successful people mover in the hills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiestarry View Post
Is this the best Toyota can give India for 10-16 lakhs ? The engine sounds like a grain thresher in heat after 100 kph, what NVH. It is agonising to overtake at 90- 100 kph on the highways.
Well, if you compare the engine to a grainthresher in heat, I would doubt if you have seen one. The NVH is certainly not the best around but no one in my family have complained of the engine noise at 120 kmph long distance cruises.

The question is not is this the best Toyota can give India for 10-16 lakhs, but rather "Is this the best India can get for 10-16 lakhs".

This is because a vast majority of Indians have already voted with their wallets that this is the best they are getting for this price. And if that is the case, Toyota is not out to do charity IMHO - reduce the price when it is considered the best package at the current price point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiestarry View Post
This The Tavera has a better ride and the Xylo a far superior free running engine. For sheer value coupled with reliability , the Tavera and Xylo have the Innova thrashed into a distant third place.
All I can say is that Tavera plus Xylo dont sell half of what Innova sells in the market so guess they need help from well wishers to inform the general car buying public of the aforesaid thrashing that the hoi polloi is so blissfully unaware of.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 19th April 2012 at 19:54.
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Old 19th April 2012, 20:19   #82
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
You talk about the higher NVH levels as a fault in the Innova but are ready to live with the so called "Niggles" in the XUV? Just the other day I was talking to member Nitin on the Delhi Meet who owns the XUV. The front LED lights of his brand new XUV have already failed and this small niggle will cost him a bomb to replace.
Slight correction here mohitji, it was not my XUV but someone else in my area who's LED went kaput. Thank god it was not mine

But yes, one thing for sure, Innova and XUV belong to 2 different markets, dont know why they are compared together all the time.
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Old 19th April 2012, 21:55   #83
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
The engine is certainly something that can be upgraded but contrary to what the figures suggest, I have never found my car lacking on power. It does 120 easily and canters upto 155-160 if required.
Compare the D-4D to other better engines in the segment. Innova's D-4D is left way behind by the competitors in terms of refinement, acceleration & drivability.

Quote:
The NVH is certainly not the best around but no one in my family have complained of the engine noise at 120 kmph long distance cruises.
As I said, depends on which car you are comparing it with. I compared the Innova with Safari, Aria, Scorpio & XUV and the Innova is definitely more noisy than our desi gang.

I have nothing against the Innova. Infact I own one. But after experiencing other similarly priced cars, I do feel shortchanged. When we bought the Innova, we did not have much options back then. Now the scenario is different. I wont buy an Innova now. I am not happy with spending that kind of money just in the name of the over hyped "quality and reliability".

Well fine, the Innova is reliable but will I pay an additional 2-4 Lacs for it? I wont. But I respect your choice.

Quote:
The question is not is this the best Toyota can give India for 10-16 lakhs, but rather "Is this the best India can get for 10-16 lakhs".
Nopes. We deserve better for that kind of money.

Quote:
This is because a vast majority of Indians have already voted with their wallets that this is the best they are getting for this price. And if that is the case, Toyota is not out to do charity IMHO - reduce the price when it is considered the best package at the current price point.
Agreed.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 19th April 2012 at 21:59.
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Old 19th April 2012, 23:32   #84
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For me it was never innova vs XUV. For me it was more like driving an outdated model 5 year down the line if I think of innova. For XUV it was a modern crossover that I could buy with all the gizmos that I would love to have around me. I drove inova once and it did not fit my driving style as I drive mostly on highways and I dont want an engine screaming on those speeds I wanted it to be relax and calm at 140+.
Regarding niggles an owners point of view is that it's not as bad as it's made out to be. Sure there are some but it's nothing in compared to the value this product brings to the table.
Also innova is a MUV wannabe car while XUV is a car wannabe SUV. My two cents ..
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:19   #85
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by paras211 View Post
In the market for a long distance workhorse.
Requirements-
Comfort
Safety
Reliability
Power-Should cruise at 140


The seats in the Xuv felt harder. Don't know how it feels after a 2-3 hr drive
The Innova is underpowered today.
And the top end one has just 2 airbags
Prefer a high stanse for better visibility and lesser headlight glare because the vehicle is going to be used on national highways most of the time.
1) Comfort. Innova has better overall comfort. I had checked out XUV in A'bad and can surely say that Innova is more tuned towards comfort.

2) None of the cars you have mentioned have made an appearance at EuroNCAP. Innova is proven to be reasonably tough as its old and we have seen many crashes of cars. XUV, safety is unknown, and its Mahindra's first individual attempt on Monocoque construction ( escort and logan were from JV ).

3) Innova is proved in all operating conditions. One of the most reliable vehicles around and this has allowed Innova to command a premium even in used car market. Even a 1 lakh kms. Innova would be of a price more than diesel SX4 OTR. Thats the value it commands.

4) Power. Innova simply fails. On a determined drive in our Wagon R, I was able to inch ahead ( and remain ahead of ) Innova on highway. He never could overtake me. Believe me, on high speed runs, Innova is not good. Till 100, its nice, beyond that, clearly the lack of grunt shows up. Innova has shorter gearing which does a good job to hide the lack of power but on highways, even the FE takes a hit. The not so aerodynamic and taller Xylo manages better FE figures.
This is the only major issue with Innova, i.e. lack of power.

For normal family vehicle cruising on highway, Innova has sufficient power, but if you are looking forward to curising a lot at high speeds, Innova wont be satisfying enough.

Overall, Innova might be outdated but it can handle and ride much better than others even today. Its matter of how much an individual is comfortable with a particular product. Exmaple : If a person is more comfortable driving Cedia than Fluidic Verna, irrespective of dated or anything, preference should be Cedia as at the end of the day, its matter of spending time behind the wheel.

Buy a vehicle you are comfortable driving, that would solve much of the confusion.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 20th April 2012 at 09:20.
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Old 20th April 2012, 10:07   #86
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

I will settle for ugly/understated(Depending on which side of fence you are sitting on) looks of Innova rather than XUV.

XUV looks like a cheap Chinese trick. Add to this the bullet proof reliability of Innova and the answer is clear.

OT: Speed of 140 on Indian Highways? Why not start out an hour earlier and stick to safer speeds?

Last edited by download2live : 20th April 2012 at 10:15.
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Old 20th April 2012, 11:00   #87
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

The Innova is a car I would recommend to a friend. The XUV is a car I'd buy.
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Old 20th April 2012, 11:19   #88
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
4) Power. Innova simply fails. On a determined drive in our Wagon R, I was able to inch ahead ( and remain ahead of ) Innova on highway. He never could overtake me. Believe me, on high speed runs, Innova is not good. Till 100, its nice, beyond that, clearly the lack of grunt shows up. Innova has shorter gearing which does a good job to hide the lack of power but on highways, even the FE takes a hit. The not so aerodynamic and taller Xylo manages better FE figures.
This is the only major issue with Innova, i.e. lack of power.
Lack of power, Yes. Its sluggish to begin with. And I do hate it for that. But not to the tune of having limitations to cruising at high speeds. And I seriously wonder when you say a WagonR could not let Innova inch ahead. Think again, there may be other factors at play. I sometimes see smaller ones going ahead of me when cruising and do not bother to heed to it keeping to my own speeds. Innova is certainly noisy beyond 100+ but engine does not scream to stop from speeding upwards upto 140 in fact with the 7 yr drive behind me now I can safely say that and even at those speeds it is utterly stable and allowing cornering even at 120-130 stably, how many cars except sedans allow you to do that. In fact, with these years bygone, it has smoothened so much I wonder if it was the same Innova I bought 7 yrs back. Only when inching towards 150 does it start feels strained, though can make it given a long stretch and tops at 160 with some efforts. Ideally I would like the power of XUV500 in everything else that is Innova to get an ideal cruiser and some more GC to get it going real off-roading. FEs from Innova are subjectable to how you thrash it, right from 12-13 @120+ to 15-16 @ 90-100.

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Originally Posted by download2live View Post
OT: Speed of 140 on Indian Highways? Why not start out an hour earlier and stick to safer speeds?
Righto, well said. High speeds not advocated anywhere even on smooth highways, better stick to the limits. It is only to see the zest of the engine that one wishes to stretch car to the limits and hence the figures 140+ come into picture. I am sure anybody mentioning these speeds is advocating them and do not do them regularly/continuously, its hardly a few small stretches that this is attempted mostly.
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Old 20th April 2012, 11:50   #89
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

When I went out looking for an SUV, I started off with Scorpio, Safari, then Xylo, waited for Aria for a year. I love Scorpio, Safari and Aria. All are way well equipped, more powerful and fun to drive. I love the XUV.

Will I put my 14Lac on these and own it? I bought Innova finally, at another one Lac penalty for waiting for 1 year. After I bought it in 2011, the price has increased by another one Lakh.

Current scenario -
XUV selling like hot cakes,
Ertiga on road,
New, more powerful, better looking Xylo E9,
Aria with much reduced prices,
and the sedate looking and underpowered Innova at another 1 Lakh additional price.

I will still go for Innova. I dont have the luxury of changing cars and seeing it depreciate by half in 2 years time or stuck endlessly at service centers.

I saw brand new XUV with plastics from wheel arches pulled off, the door handle lock not working on a display car in showroom - I saw alteast 4 cars like this in my two visits. Plastic quality has a long way to go to give a premium feel.

I see many comments indicating we cant compare many of the cars listed here, esp Innova and XUV. I'm sure if XUV had three comfortable rows, the plastic quality and texture, and the reliability of Innova, almost all Innova owners (just my thought) including me will buy XUV! So doesn't it make sense to compare these?

And about the price - Innova is by no means VFM. But still, even today, there is no compelling competition in that price range or the utility range. Obviously, Toyota is enjoying life!!

Last edited by samm : 20th April 2012 at 11:58. Reason: rephrased.
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Old 20th April 2012, 12:30   #90
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsh View Post
Lack of power, Yes. Its sluggish to begin with. And I do hate it for that. But not to the tune of having limitations to cruising at high speeds. And I seriously wonder when you say a WagonR could not let Innova inch ahead. Think again, there may be other factors at play.
We recently got our Innova and after driving Wagon r and Balneo, I can surely say that it does feel slow. The earlier diesel Innova was known to cross 155 indicated mark. To the best of my knowledge, later on Toyota put up revv limited at around 4000 rpm in 5th. This translates to around 145 kmph. Considering the speedo error, it could be in the range of 150 kmph on speedo.

My friend had Innova and I can confirm that it did not corss 4000 rpm in 5th which limits the top speed. For petrol, again to the best of my knowledge, the speed is limited to 160 in 5th.

We also have Wagon R at home which crosses 155 kmph mark on speedo in 4th. 5th, max I have done is 150 indicated, though it was slow after 145 indicated. What my point is that, Innova finds it difficult to overtake other faster moving cars clearly due to lack of grunt. Even small hatchbacks have grunt to make a move which Innova cannot. Compared with what competition is offering, this leaves much to be desired in engine department for Toyota. Xylo is also now reasonably proven in taxi market, and has much quicker nature.

EDIT:
Rear seat comfort :
Xylo has better 2nd and 3rd row seat comfort than Innova. XUV, IMO, was a bit more flat.
For middle row, I would rate :
Xylo>Innova>XUV.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 20th April 2012 at 12:32.
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