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Old 30th August 2012, 00:44   #106
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by pramod View Post
Two 5 feet 10 inch dudes sat in the last row and felt decently comfortable, even on the move. Well, i am definitely not asking for a full sized bucket seats in the 3rd row All the CRAP about "last row is for ur worst enemies", "is fit for children" are always exaggerations.

Pramod
I am 6" and cannot sit in the last row of XUV. My request is to do a comparison with

a> The comfort of the last row of Innova, AFTER pulling the jumbo sized headrests up as it makes a ton of addition to the comfort

b> The versatility that the split bench of Innova offers. 6 adults, one kid and you can still flip one side of the last row seat up and carry ALL the luggage inside the car.
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Old 30th August 2012, 08:31   #107
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
you can still flip one side of the last row seat up and carry ALL the luggage inside the car.
Well, Last row of XUV is 50-50 split. So, u can do the same with XUV too.
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Old 30th August 2012, 09:00   #108
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
I am 6" and cannot sit in the last row of XUV. My request is to do a comparison with

a> The comfort of the last row of Innova, AFTER pulling the jumbo sized headrests up as it makes a ton of addition to the comfort

b> The versatility that the split bench of Innova offers. 6 adults, one kid and you can still flip one side of the last row seat up and carry ALL the luggage inside the car.
When the middle row of Innova is pushed far back, the legroom of the 3rd row in both the cars is same, that is, insufficient. But since Innova has a sliding middle row, it can be pushed forward to liberate more legroom in the 3rd row. That is not possible in the XUV.

As said by Pramod, even XUV has 50:50 split 3rd row.

Advantage that XUV has is that the 3rd row folds down flat into the floor. So you dont need to lift the seat and hook it onto the sides, like in the Innova. Because of that, it liberates a bit more space in the boot as well.
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Old 30th August 2012, 09:43   #109
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

This comparison between these vehicles is silly, as they cater to different segments.

FIRST deciding factor should be how many times/often you lug around 7-8 people. Then the Innova it is. The XUV is a 5-seater with that 'extra' seats thrown in for short hauls.

The XUV makes for a superb weekend vehicle, and will take you a little off-road as well (not hardcore off-roading mind you), and will ensure you reach that forest IB or homestay in that remote estate with ease. Did I mention 17" wheels? Innova on the other hand will need to stick to the tarmac and cannot do much with those puny wheels off the tarmac.

Apart from this...there are MANY differences to consider. Toyota reliability or Mahindra ruggedness. What one needs to be clear in the head is about the USE.
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Old 30th August 2012, 10:41   #110
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by NIP View Post
This comparison between these vehicles is silly, as they cater to different segments.
Any car is likely to cross another some time, either due to falling in same segment, blurring of segment lines or cross-shopping. So it would not be prune to cast aside this really healthy comparison especially when both cater to nearly similar segment and there is very thin line separating both. XUV is no true SUV and only makes for imposing/intimidating style and power statement looking just at the design and specs.

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The XUV makes for a superb (1) weekend vehicle, and will take you a little off-road as well (not hardcore off-roading mind you), and will ensure you reach that forest IB or (2) homestay in that remote estate with ease. Did I mention 17" wheels? Innova on the other hand (3) will need to stick to the tarmac and cannot do much with those puny wheels off the tarmac.
(1) So does Innova, fabulously. How does it differ?

(2) So does Innova, can confidently say having made the off-roading and remote stays in the Spiti valley (literally the last village up there as it is called) without any glitches en-route, though it meant quite a off-roading for the lowly slung Innova. Ease is relative. XUV has a taller body/seating stance and Innova lower sticking near ground. What this poses in fact is the ease of maneuvering in various sections of terrains and one's comfort in handling such vehicles. Try handling both in Matheran ghats where there are extremely steep gradients and numerous hair pin bends and I would be more comfortable in Innova doing those. XUV's higher GC may give that edge in the dodgy terrains but almost all of them will be possible for sure with Innova with a little extra care.

(3) What gave you the idea? I can't say I can do Rajmachi type off-roading with Innova but many of the roads I have covered include no-tarmac and that too with the same puny wheels on stock Goodyear GT3s. One has the option to upgrade to 16" rims with better tires as well with those deep wheel wells, but to an extent of hampering turning radius etc.

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Originally Posted by NIP View Post
Apart from this...there are MANY differences to consider. Toyota reliability or Mahindra ruggedness. What one needs to be clear in the head is about the USE.
True.

Last edited by parsh : 30th August 2012 at 10:55. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 30th August 2012, 11:53   #111
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
The comparison is not that simple....even if the quality levels were similar (which they aren't!). The Innova is a true 8 seater..even the last row can be used by 6 feet tall persons on 200+km drives, so long as the middle row occupants agree to share some on their vast legroom by sliding their seat forward (even then they will have more space left than 90% of sedans). No such deal for the XUV. The last row is for kids or adults below 5 feet and not comfortable on long rides.

Even if you want to carry 6-7 adults and loads of luggage, you can flip up one side of the last row split seat and have space for people and their luggage. Again..cant do that with XUV .
Ok Here is what i think based on a TD done for both vehicles back to back with my Dad

If the middle seat is pushed back completely in an innova the 3rd seat space is the same as that of an XUV. The innova has an adjustable middle seat which is a better point for Innova

THe Middle row of the XUV is superb. I feel it is way way better than the innova.

I liked the XUV interiors better but some of the plastics and quality could be better. Innova has really good quality interiors. the fit and finish of the Innova is no doubt better

I guess we all can agree that the XUV has a fresher look compared to innova. I personally did not like the looks of both initially but the XUV grows on you

Now Highway cruisability for the XUV is way better than Innova thanks to the Extra gear.

City driving again I felt more comfortable with the XUV.

Handling bad roads @ Low speeds is better for innova but at higher speeds I liked the way XUV glided over rough patches better than Innova

I felt that the NVH levels in both vehicles to be decent. The XUV has the sound of the turbo spinning which to me was a plesant sound coming in.

Both the engines are proven work horses. you can easily do 2L+ with no issues. But with more power and torque I found the XUV to be a fun drive whereas the Innova was kind of sedate take you from point A to B kind of vehicle.

Cargo space is better in the Innova.

Taking normal turns at a sped of 80 the XUV is better than the innova.

For hard cornering at 80 the Traction kicks in and still gives you a good feeling. Hard corneting in the innova was not very confidence inspiring for me

I currently own a Fiat palio. When you shut the doors you get that nice 'thud' on the door. I got the same 'thud' feeling on shutting the XUV door. Not so much with the Innova

Safety XUV is better than the innova no doubt.

Reliability (Breaks down in the middle of the road) I put both at par

Ownership with minimal niggles. Innova is way better.

I found the XUV more fun to drive and even though my dad preffered the Innova he was fine with my decision to book the XUV

It would be good to mention here that i was in the market for a good 5 seater and upgraded to the SUV MUV space. If I were looking at a propre 7 seater then Innova would fit the bill even if it is a boring drive (for me)
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Old 30th August 2012, 15:01   #112
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by parsh View Post
...Rajmachi type off-roading with Innova but many of the roads I have covered include no-tarmac and that too with the same puny wheels on stock Goodyear GT3s. One has the option to upgrade to 16" rims with better tires as well with those deep wheel wells, but to an extent of hampering turning radius etc.
I think you know what I mean. Sure an Innova CAN do bad terrain, but the XUV can do it better, in the way that its built. A 2WD Safari/Scorpio can knock the socks off an Innova off-road, Rajamachi notwithstanding. I'd rather be in a XUV than in an Innova on that Leh trip. There's no arguing that a Tempo Traveler also does these terrains. Its how its done that matters. Sure the XUV may not be a true SUV, but there's no taking away the fact that Innova is a van after all. My view, no offense to owners. I love the Innova for what it is and have traveled extensively in it.
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Old 30th August 2012, 16:19   #113
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by NIP View Post
I think you know what I mean. Sure an Innova CAN do bad terrain, but the XUV can do it better, in the way that its built. A 2WD Safari/Scorpio can knock the socks off an Innova off-road, Rajamachi notwithstanding. I'd rather be in a XUV than in an Innova on that Leh trip. There's no arguing that a Tempo Traveler also does these terrains. Its how its done that matters. Sure the XUV may not be a true SUV, but there's no taking away the fact that Innova is a van after all. My view, no offense to owners. I love the Innova for what it is and have traveled extensively in it.
Hey mate, no offenses taken. I do not want to post my experiences to justify Innova, but to put down some facts which others may not have experienced and can take an independent call for their own decision. Afterall this is great comparison happening here and for good for many looking for such vehicles.

I would say, Innova is rather a car built like a van to make it people mover. It is no way a SUV. It is incomparable to Scorpio/Safari in anyway in terms of their capabilities. Rather consider, Aria is XOver as is XUV and both present same capabilities, but consider the outlook both present, totally different, Aria comes out vanlike whereas XUV as SUVlike and both appeal to different tastes and now XUV just slaughtering Aria. Just exchange the exteriors over the XUV and Innova and see how it may change the game. And thats where M&M seems have captured the fantasies of many people. I said quite sometime back also, I would like Innova as it is but only with the power of XUV which is the real strength of XUV.

Let me also clarify, when I say it was a off-roading for Innova in my earlier post, it was more or less the same for any other car, including Scorpio/Safari, and Innova did it respectably while keeping the comforts of the inmates intact.
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Old 31st August 2012, 00:45   #114
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by NIP View Post
I think you know what I mean. Sure an Innova CAN do bad terrain, but the XUV can do it better, in the way that its built. A 2WD Safari/Scorpio can knock the socks off an Innova off-road, Rajamachi notwithstanding. I'd rather be in a XUV than in an Innova on that Leh trip. There's no arguing that a Tempo Traveler also does these terrains. Its how its done that matters. Sure the XUV may not be a true SUV, but there's no taking away the fact that Innova is a van after all. My view, no offense to owners. I love the Innova for what it is and have traveled extensively in it.
Question - on steep gradients and fully loaded conditions, a rear wheel drive vehicle fares much much better than a front wheel drive. While traversing steep gradients, weight transfer to rear causes the front wheel drive vehicles lose traction fast.

So on a steep climb, can we say that XUV will fare better than the Innova (Which BTW, even if some call it a van because of the looks, shares the same platform with a fortuner and Hilux pickup truck, barring the smaller wheels). I think unless someone tests two fully loaded varients, the answer may elude us.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 31st August 2012 at 00:47.
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Old 31st August 2012, 06:37   #115
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
Question - on steep gradients and fully loaded conditions, a rear wheel drive vehicle fares much much better than a front wheel drive. While traversing steep gradients, weight transfer to rear causes the front wheel drive vehicles lose traction fast.

So on a steep climb, can we say that XUV will fare better than the Innova (Which BTW, even if some call it a van because of the looks, shares the same platform with a fortuner and Hilux pickup truck, barring the smaller wheels). I think unless someone tests two fully loaded varients, the answer may elude us.
Cmon, now are you saying the 102 bhp Innova will be better than the 140 bhp XUV on inclines, just because the Innova is a rear wheel drive?

A front wheel drive vehicle does not have it's front wheels in the air, especially not a heavy vehicle like the XUV!

Last edited by raj_5004 : 31st August 2012 at 06:38.
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Old 31st August 2012, 10:00   #116
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
Question - on steep gradients and fully loaded conditions, a rear wheel drive vehicle fares much much better than a front wheel drive. While traversing steep gradients, weight transfer to rear causes the front wheel drive vehicles lose traction fast.

So on a steep climb, can we say that XUV will fare better than the Innova (Which BTW, even if some call it a van because of the looks, shares the same platform with a fortuner and Hilux pickup truck, barring the smaller wheels). I think unless someone tests two fully loaded varients, the answer may elude us.
I dont agree. the weight distribution of the vehicle will not affect the traction while climbing a straight hill. If anything the XUV will have better traction on the front wheels pulling the vehicle forward than the Innovas back wheel pushing the vehicle (Both vehicles are empty).

On hairpins the Innova has an advantage due to rear wheel drive and weight distribution. But i feel that the XUV too would fare equally well due to its traction control (you would compromise on speed though)

Since innova does not have traction control being a RWD there are chances of the wheels losing traction in slippary slopes causing the rear wheels to spin. The XUV would do better even with traction off due to the weight in the front giving it better traction

PS. this is just my opinion based on my experience with RWD and FWD vehicles. I have not tested any of the vehicles in these conditions
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Old 31st August 2012, 10:46   #117
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

What will come into consideration for above points is primarily power/torque to weight ratios.
Power ratios:
XUV500: 1785kg, 140 bhp, BHP/Ton = 78.43
Innova: 1675kg, 102 bhp, BHP/Ton = 60.89

As gandalf said above, XUV should have more pulling power than Innova on a straight slope without worry about traction control.

Where it may matter is the muddy inclines/terrains where IMO Innova's RWD may prove better compared to the FWD XUV. Why this is because, XUV suffers from very bad torque-steer and which may play against it on a muddy incline/decline where the speeds have to be slow/controlled and the XUV's torque-steer plays major part in starting up and lower speeds sections. Which means either the torque spread is not proper and can sometimes become uncontrollable OR steering assembly suffers in design to handle such heavy torque OR there has to be something with the appropriateness of the wheels and tyres in XUV. Where Innova scores here is having constant torque from low RPMs and providing that constant controllable support. But lower torque also means you need to plan and execute your maneuvering a muddy and ditchy terrains and take them with a care. Due to XUV's torque steer it will also need careful planning to tackle such terrains.

Also, as per my experience on both XUV and Innova ripped on expressways, the cornering capability of Innova at high speeds (130-140) still feels to be better than XUV IMO.

On a straight uninterrupted drive XUV will beat Innova hands down for sure.

Last edited by parsh : 31st August 2012 at 10:48.
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Old 31st August 2012, 13:53   #118
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Where it may matter is the muddy inclines/terrains where IMO Innova's RWD may prove better compared to the FWD XUV.
I agree if we are talking about pure offroad conditions.

But in conditions where the road is broken/bad and during heavy rains (the wheels will not get stuck in the mud but the grip is very less) the rear wheel in RWD which is responsible for pushing the car forward will have less weight over it hence the downward push would be less. this could cause the rear wheels to lose traction and spin. in a similar road an FWD vehicle would have more weight pressing down from the engine and hence provide better traction the pull the vehicle forward.

I feel the torque spin would come into play when the tires could get stuck in mud and slush and you are trying to pull the vehicle out. here the innova should do better but the lower GC of the innova would be a problem there.

Please correct me if i am wrong

In the handling department i really felt both vehicles similar (They are not Sedans but handle well). I have not taken corners at 140 though but at 80-120 the normal curves and corners in the road were cool. for sharp 90 degree turns done at 80 u can feel the xuv controlling the speed to help you turn better. I felt the innova a bit scary at those turns. Bit I am sure that Innova may be better than the XUV with Traction control off because it is RWD
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Old 1st September 2012, 09:05   #119
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Cmon, now are you saying the 102 bhp Innova will be better than the 140 bhp XUV on inclines, just because the Innova is a rear wheel drive?

A front wheel drive vehicle does not have it's front wheels in the air, especially not a heavy vehicle like the XUV!
Heavy vehicles have rear wheel drive as the front wheels lose traction on steep inclines as well as under accleration - weight gets transferred to rear. When was the last time you saw a 2+ tonne vehicle having front wheel drive. The weight transfer to the rear on inclines and accleration puts the front wheels in low traction and the wheels slip especially when the incline is steep

Also, on inclines, low end torque is important not the top end BHP figure that you mention.

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Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
I dont agree. the weight distribution of the vehicle will not affect the traction while climbing a straight hill. If anything the XUV will have better traction on the front wheels pulling the vehicle forward than the Innovas back wheel pushing the vehicle (Both vehicles are empty).
All the heavy vehicles are rwd as it is the recommended dose for traction. the weight transfer happens to the rear on inclines and under accleration.

Agree The traction control on XUV may give it an advantage in slippery conditions though.

I am not saying that I tested them either but it was just a question based on a few things.
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Old 1st September 2012, 09:17   #120
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Default re: Mahindra XUV500 vs Toyota Innova vs Others

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
Heavy vehicles have rear wheel drive as the front wheels lose traction on steep inclines as well as under accleration - weight gets transferred to rear. When was the last time you saw a 2+ tonne vehicle having front wheel drive. The weight transfer to the rear on inclines and accleration puts the front wheels in low traction and the wheels slip especially when the incline is steep
I understand all that sir, but that does not mean an underpowered vehicle will smoke the other powerful vehicle, just because the former is RWD!

Quote:
Also, on inclines, low end torque is important not the top end BHP figure that you mention.
Innova : 200 NM
XUV : 330 NM

Both cars have good low end torque, but the XUV has much more torque!

Last edited by raj_5004 : 1st September 2012 at 09:19.
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