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Old 17th January 2012, 11:02   #61
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

I agree with this. I used to get my tyres balanced and rotated every 5K Kms. Also used to flip them around every 10K Kms for longer life. This practice has held me in good stead. The important thing is that I live in a city, with very easy access to these services within a reasonable radius of where I live/ work.
I dont think the same ease of access is available in a truly rural place - hence it is my postulation that the level of TLC per se, could come down a bit. Added to it, regular driving on bad roads, knocks the blazes out of the wheel alignment and balancing, in comparison to the same vehicle being driven on highways/ city roads.

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In the end, it would depend on one's driving style and the amount of TLC the car gets even when the car is in no-road conditions.
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Old 17th January 2012, 16:06   #62
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

This is indeed one good thread for a lot of people like me who are confused on SUVs and their needs. The takeaway for me from this discussion is - If you can afford to purchase and maintain a 4x4, buy one for the peace of mind, safety, confidence and the capability it will offer to you for trips and circumstances that you might not have planned/envisaged. Otherwise, go for the 4x2 with the full knowledge of your destination and how the vehicle will behave in those terrains. I personally believe that when you invest in an SUV for the next 7-10 years, go for one that will provide you a bit more than what your current need is, as it will provide you the bandwidth to explore more in the future.
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Old 17th January 2012, 17:41   #63
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by r0ckstar.1 View Post
This is indeed one good thread for a lot of people like me who are confused on SUVs and their needs. The takeaway for me from this discussion is - If you can afford to purchase and maintain a 4x4, buy one for the peace of mind, safety, confidence and the capability it will offer to you for trips and circumstances that you might not have planned/envisaged. Otherwise, go for the 4x2 with the full knowledge of your destination and how the vehicle will behave in those terrains.
There is a catch and an important one. A 4WD set-up will help only when it is engaged in the first place. Under normal conditions of driving, one would be driving in 2WD mode and a sudden occurrence of unfriendly stretch of road is not going to help. Thus, the 4WD-SUV is helpful only when you see the conditions of driving - rains/snow/gravel beforehand and you have shifted to a 4WD mode.
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Old 17th January 2012, 18:04   #64
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by Animesh View Post
There is a catch and an important one. A 4WD set-up will help only when it is engaged in the first place. Under normal conditions of driving, one would be driving in 2WD mode and a sudden occurrence of unfriendly stretch of road is not going to help. Thus, the 4WD-SUV is helpful only when you see the conditions of driving - rains/snow/gravel beforehand and you have shifted to a 4WD mode.
This raises one question. Can we switch over from 2WD mode to 4WD mode on the fly or do we need to stop (come to a complete hault) & then switch over? Is this the system in the current Indian SUVs like the Scorpio & Safari. Would it be the same in the upcoming vehicles like the Duster & the Ecosport?
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Old 17th January 2012, 19:26   #65
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

All these questions and more are answered in a number of long 4WD threads here e.g.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...-how-done.html (Driving all four wheels: how is it done?)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...-lsd-suvs.html (Center Differential and LSD in SUVs)

@ Animesh: depends on the 4WD system. The Fortuner, LC, Vitara etc. have permanent 4WD modes. Also, you don't usually 'suddenly' come across bad stretches - e.g. snow, mud, rocks etc. Careful/anticipatory driving ensures adequate reaction time to shift to 4WD. From what I have read, experts say that when you go off tarmac e.g. on a dirt or mud road, it is a good idea to engage 4WD e.g. for better grip and stability.

More relevant would be whether to lock or not to lock/when to lock - once you get bogged down, then it might be too late to start doing things to get out. Not getting bogged down in the first place is more important.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 17th January 2012 at 19:28.
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Old 17th January 2012, 22:04   #66
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by Animesh View Post
There is a catch and an important one. A 4WD set-up will help only when it is engaged in the first place. Under normal conditions of driving, one would be driving in 2WD mode and a sudden occurrence of unfriendly stretch of road is not going to help. Thus, the 4WD-SUV is helpful only when you see the conditions of driving - rains/snow/gravel beforehand and you have shifted to a 4WD mode.
Let me clear that doubt for you here, you can change from 2wd to 4wd at the twist of a knob (at least on Duster), check their website for details.

And for all who are thinking what the interiors of Duster will be like, I got some confy info - as put forward by the sales staff at the dealer, it will not be euro spec but Brazil spec, which is far better and modern. Almost everything is based on the Brazil Spec car, see this;

http://www.renault.com.br/veiculos/duster.aspx

Last edited by zulfi hansi : 17th January 2012 at 22:08. Reason: link to the website not applied
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Old 17th January 2012, 22:08   #67
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
This raises one question. Can we switch over from 2WD mode to 4WD mode on the fly or do we need to stop (come to a complete hault) & then switch over? Is this the system in the current Indian SUVs like the Scorpio & Safari. Would it be the same in the upcoming vehicles like the Duster & the Ecosport?
Shift on the fly is a very common 4wd technology which is offered on many 4wd vehicles including the Scorpio and the Safari which have electric transfer cases. You can shift to '4wd High' upto a max vehicle speed of 80kmph on such systems. However, to disengage, you need to reverse the vehicle slightly for the front wheel hubs to unlock after you have flipped the 4wd switch to 2wd.
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Old 17th January 2012, 22:23   #68
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
This raises one question. Can we switch over from 2WD mode to 4WD mode on the fly or do we need to stop (come to a complete hault) & then switch over? Is this the system in the current Indian SUVs like the Scorpio & Safari. Would it be the same in the upcoming vehicles like the Duster & the Ecosport?
To clarify your point on this issue, for Duster I have copied this content from their website;

'When the Auto mode is selected, the front/rear torque split is calculated automatically as a function of available grip. This system is aimed at providing optimal traction, however much grip is available, and gives Dacia Duster genuine 4x4 ability. In normal conditions, the torque is transmitted through the front wheels only. If traction is lost, or when grip is at a premium, some of the torque is transferred to the rear axle. In extreme conditions, the torque is split equally front and rear. This split is performed by an electromagnetic torque converter supplied by Nissan.'
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Old 18th January 2012, 08:17   #69
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I've a query to the veterans out here with SUVs (or relevant experience with them). I might be in the market for a new vehicle and I was thinking of an SUV for the following reasons:
- my parents might decide to come and stay with us permanently. Hence require a people mover.
- they've two Labradors and it would be easier for them to travel in a SUV/MPV as compared to a sedan. We might be getting a dog of our own in the near future.
- I want a vehicle with a go-anywhere attitude and not get stuck when I decide to get adventurous.
- I intend to (whenever it is) travel to Leh/Laddakh (and other similar places) and back in one piece.

Now, to my queries:
- what is the interval at which one has to service an SUV and what is the cost involved? I get my car serviced every six months or 5000km whichever is earlier.
- what might be the cost difference between the servicing for a 2WD vs 4WD approximately? I'm referring to regular service not breakdown repair.
- how problematic are SUVs (2WD/4WD) as compared to sedans and hatches?
- are SUVs comfortable for long drives (as compared to sedans)?

I'm willing to pay the difference in cost between a 2WD and. 4WD, but I want it to be an informed decision. my favorite is the Pajero, but it's way out of my budget right now.
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Old 18th January 2012, 09:42   #70
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

^^^ the Force One would meet your budget and space requirements to the 'T'. Wait until June/July and you should be able to get the 4WD version too.
From the Platform that Force displayed at the Auto Expo, it looks to be a fantastic set of mechanicals on offer, and the Interiors, Comfort etc. do not displease either.

The other option would be the Safari, although there may be a few Niggles here and there. The reason I would not recommend a Scorpio is because of the lack of Space at the back and the Ride quality.

Last edited by roy_libran : 18th January 2012 at 09:44. Reason: Added options
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Old 18th January 2012, 09:44   #71
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
my parents might decide to come and stay with us permanently. Hence require a people mover.
SUV is not a good idea if they are elderly and have difficulty in climbing or getting down steps.

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what is the interval at which one has to service an SUV and what is the cost involved? I get my car serviced every six months or 5000km whichever is earlier.
Typically, servicing is either 10k [Scorpio] or 15k kms [lSafari]. However, some SUVs require checkup visits to the ASC every 5k kms [Scorpio], even though not much work is done in that visit.

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how problematic are SUVs (2WD/4WD) as compared to sedans and hatches?
I've definitely had lesser ASC visits with my Scorpio than when I had a Palio. No idea about sedans.

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are SUVs comfortable for long drives (as compared to sedans)?
If your travel is over average/bad roads, then a SUV journey is definitely less tiring. On NH like roads, my guess is a sedan would be preferable.
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Old 18th January 2012, 10:30   #72
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
Let me clear that doubt for you here, you can change from 2wd to 4wd at the twist of a knob (at least on Duster), check their website for details.
I had no doubts on Duster in particular. I was talking more in lines with a 4WD of being less of use when the terrain changes suddenly. A vehicle with 4WD(running on 2WD) would still behave as a 2WD. However, 4WD would be a very comfortable setup when you are engaged in one and the terrain is unfriendly. I hope you go my point.

Quote:
And for all who are thinking what the interiors of Duster will be like, I got some confy info - as put forward by the sales staff at the dealer, it will not be euro spec but Brazil spec, which is far better and modern. Almost everything is based on the Brazil Spec car, see this;

Renault - Duster
We all hope as this one looks so good. Thanks.
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Old 18th January 2012, 11:53   #73
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

^^^ Animesh, Usually when you are in areas where you are likely to hit bad terrain somewhere, you are highly unlikely to be driving fast, so you Cannot hit these SUDDENLY.
As someone said earlier, Snow, rocks, Slush just don't appear out of thin air. There are lots of warnings earlier.
The only situation that I am aware of, that can actually catch you completely unawares, and where you do not expect it, is BLACK ICE.

So, definitely an AWD will help a lot, if you encounter BLACK ICE, since it will help you regain traction much faster, but in all other situations, a Part-Time 4WD will do just fine, provided you respect the conditions while driving.

Moreover, Black Ice is not a common problem in most parts of India. The only places where you are likely to hit this is in the upper passes of the Himalayas, and you can always study the weather and road conditions in advance, when traversing such places.

That said, between a Part-Time 4WD and an AWD system, an AWD system is definitely preferable, but it comes at a huge cost. The usage pattern for a vehicle, should be able to justify that additional cost.
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Old 18th January 2012, 13:56   #74
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
- what is the interval at which one has to service an SUV and what is the cost involved? I get my car serviced every six months or 5000km whichever is earlier.
- how problematic are SUVs (2WD/4WD) as compared to sedans and hatches?
- are SUVs comfortable for long drives (as compared to sedans)?
Cost and frequency of service is similar to a sedan (maybe 10% more), but not very high.

4wd SUV's are slightly more complex so one has to know when to engage what gear and what mode. So if driven wrongly it could create problems but otherwise pretty much problem free.

Absolutely, they are more comfortable for having a steady long drive at decent speeds, tiring if you want to zip around.

All this after closely monitoring a friends safari and another Fortuner in close extended family.
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Old 18th January 2012, 14:12   #75
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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A 2wd SUV personally makes no sense to me. I would anyday opt for a MPV, they are so much more fun and enjoyable when travelling. If you do opt for a SUV because you value ground clearance as a primary buying criteria then a 4x4 is a highly recommended add on.
I had this dilemma of 2wd vs 4wd when i was finalising the purchase of Safari. Finally, I stuck to 2wd due these reasons:

- I would mainly use it for long drives on highways where I would be going with family.
- I might go to bad roads but definitely not to unknown/offroads with my kids on board. So, 4wd didnt make sense to me. I am sure the 2wd Safari would cruise well even in the tortuous roads of Manali- Leh, Lahaul-Spiti and even the torturous zozila pass between Drass - Srinagar.
- What I needed was a vehicle with high ground clearance and chair like seating postion for comfortable long drives on bad roads.
- What I also needed was a lot of space so that I can keep my kid's bicycles, toysets, kids scooters and anything that I might need without have to think of space issue.
- The most satisfying part is when I see my kids peacefully on the wide back seat when we go on drives at night, as their is no dearth of space.

If I need to do some serious offroading which I definitely wont be doing with my family, then I would rather go for a Mahindra Jeep rather using a 4wd Safari/Scorpio for that.

Last edited by recker_us : 18th January 2012 at 14:16. Reason: .
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