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Old 18th February 2012, 17:57   #106
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
I'd love to rekindle my romance but dread the spares and service issues. Are there any good ones available?
I just saw a classified listed on 10th Feb in your city http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...Forester.html/

You might want to get in touch with the person.

I see a Forester every day parked below my building here in Mumbai. It looks to be in excellent shape and at times I have flirted with the idea of making an offer to the owner. However, the thought of buying a used car in India scares me a little. Also, Spare Parts could be a worry with Forester.
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Old 18th February 2012, 18:24   #107
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
and with some effort I did move out, leaving a trail of rubber marks and the smell of burnt rubber in the air.
, imagine a 4x2 SUV with all the weight in such a situation.
You might have also been smelling the signs of a lightly saute-ing clutch!
I have recounted elsewhere how difficult it was in my Scorpio once or twice, when its RWD simply couldnt find enough traction to climb up a steep incline with a loose surface and / or wet grass. Once or twice while going forward and uphill and once or twice while trying to reverse out uphill!

Much much better to have a 4WD in such situations or if one has only a 2WD better to avoid such adventures!
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Old 18th February 2012, 18:30   #108
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
Sir, you are one of those rare breeds who owns a dream called Forester, for long I was hunting for one and gave up when I couldn't find any good ones, I think this is the most capable off-roader in a budget, I can't help but ask you, how do you manage to maintain it, spares, service, cost of running (mileage etc). I'd love to rekindle my romance but dread the spares and service issues. Are there any good ones available?
Car is mostly trouble free and I haven't faced nay issues in 1.5 year. But the spares are a problem and you need to get everything by ordering through GM dealers. Other option is to buy through other sources (like ebay). So, definitely there is effort required to maintain it. You can check some Foresters listed in the t-bhp classifieds.
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Old 25th February 2012, 14:51   #109
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by Animesh View Post
I just saw a classified listed on 10th Feb in your city http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...Forester.html/

You might want to get in touch with the person.

I see a Forester every day parked below my building here in Mumbai. It looks to be in excellent shape and at times I have flirted with the idea of making an offer to the owner. However, the thought of buying a used car in India scares me a little. Also, Spare Parts could be a worry with Forester.
Thank you for the classified note, I had already seen it, did you notice there is another add for Forester which is in similar condition, but the price demanded is almost 50% less in Mumbai, you are lucky to be in Mumbai when it comes to used cars. In Bangalore I have noticed the resale values quoted are mostly illogically high, slightly higher is OK since the taxes are high here but not to this extent.

In your position living in Mumbai I would consider buying Forester for what it offers, excellent SUV, reliable and fairly efficient engine, and availability of import spares there. But you cannot use it as your regular car, and you will need patience to maintain it, get a good workshop who know how to handle this car, there are plenty in Mumbai (not in Bangalore), use it for 1-1.5 yrs and move on. For what price you get it for you will get full value from it.

Do not get scared when buying used, its a good opportunity to experience good cars for a fraction of the cost, no worry of high depreciation. Just make sure you do not buy in a hurry, do your homework well, once you get the right car do not hesitate paying a little more for that peace of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
You might have also been smelling the signs of a lightly saute-ing clutch!
I have recounted elsewhere how difficult it was in my Scorpio once or twice, when its RWD simply couldnt find enough traction to climb up a steep incline with a loose surface and / or wet grass. Once or twice while going forward and uphill and once or twice while trying to reverse out uphill!

Much much better to have a 4WD in such situations or if one has only a 2WD better to avoid such adventures!
Yes I did, was frustrating and worrisome. I would say no adventures at all.
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Old 1st March 2012, 15:02   #110
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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But you cannot use it as your regular car, and you will need patience to maintain it, get a good workshop who know how to handle this car,
I have been using the Forester as my regular car (after selling my ANHC AT!). But my running is not much.
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Old 1st March 2012, 19:57   #111
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

If you like mountains and forests, sooner or later you start craving for a 4X4.

I did some trails in my Indica and then in my SX4, but nowadays with a 4X4 big SUV there is a lot more freedom to go anywhere and do anything e.g. climb to a hill and then put up a tent on top of it. Pretty handy in Nilgiris where most estates have a few interesting but '4WD-needed' trails.

My 4WD also helped me in the night when I was running for my life after coming across a bull elephant in the night (distance of 5 feet, turned the vehicle and there it was standing beside the trail and reaching towards me). I couldn't have scooted like that if I didn't have a 4WD.
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Old 1st March 2012, 20:41   #112
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
Last week was a revelation of sorts for me. Was in Goa driving my Corolla, never had problem with GC (did not venture adventurously though). But one evening close to the beach when I was trying to park in a overcrowded space, to be safe took the car in reverse off the road where there was some very dry sand, just wanted to make sure the car can come out so kept the front tyres on tarmac so I will have traction when coming out, luckily I decided to move out again just after I parked to make sure it will come out. And there it was, the front left tyre completely lost grip and started to spin burning the rubber to glory and later even the right one, the car just couldn't move out
If you park on an uneven surface, make sure your powered wheel is on the lower ground. Meaning if you park downhill, it will make sense to park it straight rather than in reverse (for a FWD vehicle). The wheels on the higher ground get minimal traction since the weight is shifted to the lower wheels. If you park uphill, there is no issue since gravity will help you pull out.

Edit: RWD cars or heavy bikes (which are RWD as well), should be parking in reverse when parking downhill. Owning a suzuki C50 has taught me that.

This is of course, assuming that the lower ground has enough traction. If the lower ground has loose surface, don't park there at all.

GC and weight is not as important here. The same weight that pulls you down also gives traction to the wheels. If anything, you should have tried seating two people on the front bonnet to gain traction under front wheels.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 1st March 2012 at 20:45.
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Old 1st March 2012, 21:16   #113
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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I have been using the Forester as my regular car (after selling my ANHC AT!). But my running is not much.
Sir you are an exception since you are maintaining a Forester in Bangalore, I could not maintain a Astra for more than 2 years here. I will really take some serious advice from you some day if I end up buying one. My heart really wants to but my head rules as of now. My running is also not much about 1000kms/month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
If you park on an uneven surface, make sure your powered wheel is on the lower ground. Meaning if you park downhill, it will make sense to park it straight rather than in reverse (for a FWD vehicle). The wheels on the higher ground get minimal traction since the weight is shifted to the lower wheels. If you park uphill, there is no issue since gravity will help you pull out.

Edit: RWD cars or heavy bikes (which are RWD as well), should be parking in reverse when parking downhill. Owning a suzuki C50 has taught me that.

This is of course, assuming that the lower ground has enough traction. If the lower ground has loose surface, don't park there at all.

GC and weight is not as important here. The same weight that pulls you down also gives traction to the wheels. If anything, you should have tried seating two people on the front bonnet to gain traction under front wheels.
There is some valuable advice there, I did not know most of it till now. BTW my lower ground was dry sand, so I had made a mistake, and the higher ground was tarmac with sand sprinkled on it. The bonnet weight is a genius idea.
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Old 1st March 2012, 22:12   #114
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

Love this thread.

Most of the benefits, disadvantages, checks and balances of the different types of drives have already been discussed here in detail, so I do not have much to add to it from a technical perspective.

I've lived in a snow belt for over 14 winters now (driving front wheel drive vehicles for the most of those 14). My neighbor drives a 7 series BMW, a rear wheel driven vehicle, on his daily commute of ~80 miles. He swears the car doesn't go wrong on him whether we get dumped a foot of snow overnight or whether we have rain, sleet or black ice on the freeways.

To be honest, 99% of the time a 4WD/AWD system is an overkill unless a difficult terrain and/or bad weather are regular features of your drive. However, if you wish to make the best of the remaining 1% - when mother nature or grandmother earth throws something really nasty at you, AND, if you can justify/absorb the considerable chunk of money you will pay more for an AWD to insure against that unexpected 1%, then go for it.

Let us also not forget the false sense of immunity and security that a 4WD can offer. 4WD does not make you or your vehicle an all terrain military battletank. Sense and sensibility should be foremost regardless of whether you are in a RWD or a FWD or an AWD/4WD. Like HVK and other stalwarts here say, if you have the patience and the skill, a two wheel drive can get you almost anywhere you wish.

It is sad (and funny) to see more 4WD SUV's veer into ditches and run off highway shoulders than others, whenever there is a snowstorm in my part of the world.
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Old 1st March 2012, 23:12   #115
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Sir you are an exception since you are maintaining a Forester in Bangalore, I could not maintain a Astra for more than 2 years here.
From what I gathered from a SA in Sundaram motors (who serviced both Forester and Opel Astra), it is really difficult to get some parts for Astra, because parts are not produced any more by Opel (third party vendors may make it). But in case of Forester, parts for even older models are made by Subaru as well as numerous third party vendors.
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Old 2nd March 2012, 19:40   #116
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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From what I gathered from a SA in Sundaram motors (who serviced both Forester and Opel Astra), it is really difficult to get some parts for Astra, because parts are not produced any more by Opel (third party vendors may make it). But in case of Forester, parts for even older models are made by Subaru as well as numerous third party vendors.
That sounds good, so it is worth a shot, but getting a good Forester is very difficult here in Bangalore for a realistic price though.
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Old 2nd March 2012, 20:45   #117
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

Talking about Forester, I see this every day just outside the building that I live in. And how many times have I thought of leaving my business card with a message ("Would you be interested to sell this to me?") on the windshield of this car. This one has absolutely no estate-kinda-looks and those bumper-claddings topped with fog lights and wheels give it a pretty aggressive stance.
Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?-subaru-forester-teambhp.jpg
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Old 12th March 2012, 02:24   #118
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

I read through this very informative thread. I am (was) planning to buy a 4x4 Safari (Used) or a Jeep (Thar/used MM540/550) later this year. The idea was to use it as a weekend getaway vehicle and also a long in planning trip from Pune to the North/North East. Sometimes to office as well!
But on reading through I feel that a 4x4 will make sense only if I am planning on Hard core offroading. Then I have the following thoughts.

1 - Will it be cheaper to buy a 4x2 and fit a Winch for when I do manage to get stuck?
2 - Any other option?

The gurus can please help me with this.

(Note) : I bought a used jeep recently which is in the process of being restored. But half way through, having other thoughts, need something reliable.
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Old 12th March 2012, 13:50   #119
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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1 - Will it be cheaper to buy a 4x2 and fit a Winch for when I do manage to get stuck?
2 - Any other option?
Torquecurve: Yes, a winch is a very helpful tool, irrespective of the vehicle, if you get stuck, however there need to be trees around the place which can be used to tie one end of the winch rope. This means that in places like deserts, a winch is pretty much useless.

The price difference between 2WD and 4WD is around 100,000.00 INR for entry level SUVs.

Let me ask you something. Have you gotten stuck so far? 95% of 2WD SUVs go to 99% places, around the country, successfully. Look at Leh/NE/RJ and you will find tons of Innovas, Taveras and Scorpios doing the rounds on 99% of the roads/trails, so you essentially do not need 4WD for that occcasional trail that you intend to take.

Coming to your NE trip, a TBHP Laura has been to Tawang and back, successfully. It is a combination of driving skills and vehicle knowledge that is most important.
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Old 12th March 2012, 20:16   #120
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Default Re: Why should one buy a 4WD (4X4 system)/ AWD as against a 4x2?

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Let me ask you something. Have you gotten stuck so far? 95% of 2WD SUVs go to 99% places, around the country, successfully. Look at Leh/NE/RJ and you will find tons of Innovas, Taveras and Scorpios doing the rounds on 99% of the roads/trails, so you essentially do not need 4WD for that occcasional trail that you intend to take.

Coming to your NE trip, a TBHP Laura has been to Tawang and back, successfully. It is a combination of driving skills and vehicle knowledge that is most important.
Thank you Devdath. I believe you have cleared it for me. I aint planning a trip to Rajasthan in the near future (2 years or so). Meanwhile I do plan on a trip to N/NE. I think a 2WD Safari with a Winch (electric) and a backup winch (Ratchet type) with a couple high lift jacks should be enough to take me through almost any place I could get stuck. Also, I intend to buy a couple of stakes which I could use as ground anchors.

Regarding the Laura exp., well that helps satisfy me to a great extent. I completely agree to the driving skills part. However I intend to go off the beaten track where possible and so was thinking in terms of an SUV with Winch. I am sure the NE has a lot of winch anchor points

And yes, in all my softroading experience, we ( his SUV) has almost never got stuck anywhere.
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