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Old 12th July 2012, 11:20   #166
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by Equus View Post
I thought I saw a pre-owned Fortuner in Royal Carz on 80 ft road Koramangala. I stay very hear - can check tomm morning if you are interested. Or you can call them up - look up Royal carz in the yellow pages or google it..
Thank you for offering to help Equus, can you check it out for me when you have the time for it please?
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Old 12th July 2012, 12:04   #167
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Thank you for offering to help Equus, can you check it out for me when you have the time for it please?
Sure, i will come back later in the evening.

You have more luck - 1 more fortuner (2010 model though) available with the toyota dealers: http://www.toyotautrust.in/buycar-results.asp
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Old 13th July 2012, 17:44   #168
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

In my opinion, the 4L extra for 2011 Fortuner vs 2012 Yeti, is not only worth it, but will be recovered in lower maintenance costs, especially as you want to keep the Vehicle for 7-10 years.

Toyotas are known for low maintenance and long lasting build, especially their 4x4's. On the Other hand European cars are known for higher maintenance costs and parts which are usually twice as expensive, hence a long term ownership is an expensive affair.

As a few have suggested now is the time to do a TCO for for both the vehicles. I suggest :

1. 5 years, 25,000km
2. 5 years, 50,000km
3. 5 years, 100,000km
4. 7 years, 50,000km
5. 7 years, 100,000km
6. 10 years, 100,000km
7. 10 years, 150,000km
8. 10 years, 200,000km
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Old 13th July 2012, 19:11   #169
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
In my opinion, the 4L extra for 2011 Fortuner vs 2012 Yeti, is not only worth it, but will be recovered in lower maintenance costs, especially as you want to keep the Vehicle for 7-10 years.

Toyotas are known for low maintenance and long lasting build, especially their 4x4's. On the Other hand European cars are known for higher maintenance costs and parts which are usually twice as expensive, hence a long term ownership is an expensive affair.

As a few have suggested now is the time to do a TCO for for both the vehicles. I suggest :

1. 5 years, 25,000km
2. 5 years, 50,000km
3. 5 years, 100,000km
4. 7 years, 50,000km
5. 7 years, 100,000km
6. 10 years, 100,000km
7. 10 years, 150,000km
8. 10 years, 200,000km
Thank you Roy, finally someone has an opinion at least. I m really surprised at my failure to elicit any opinions on what seemed to be a simple question.

5 years, 100,000kms is what seems to be my most likely cycle of usage, followed by the around 20,000kms every year. Now, this means that I need to get two services done every year which would, to my knowledge, cost the same on both cars till the first 50,000kms or so IMO. The real battle starts after that.

Is is possible to deduce a table/forumula to calculate the costs of ownership post 50,000kms, for both vehicles? I m trying to do it but have not been able to make much progress, thus far.

One more point to be considered here is the FE of both the vehicles. I feel it is safe to assume that the Yeti is at least 30% more fuel efficient than the Fortuner, and the corresponding savings can be used to offset maintenance costs to a certain extent.
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Old 13th July 2012, 19:29   #170
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Thank you Roy, finally someone has an opinion at least. I m really surprised at my failure to elicit any opinions on what seemed to be a simple question.
........

Is is possible to deduce a table/forumula to calculate the costs of ownership post 50,000kms, for both vehicles? I m trying to do it but have not been able to make much progress, thus far.

One more point to be considered here is the FE of both the vehicles. I feel it is safe to assume that the Yeti is at least 30% more fuel efficient than the Fortuner, and the corresponding savings can be used to offset maintenance costs to a certain extent.
Use Excel. Suggested Columns
. Quarterly Distance
. Fuel
. Maintenance Labour - Cleaning/Changing : Fluids, Injectors, Filters, Clutch etc
. Maintenance Parts/Consumables : Fluids, Injectors, Filters, Clutch, Bulbs, Wiper Blades, etc
. Insurance

You can add other tangibles/Intangibles to the list. For 10 years you have 40 Quarters, but mostly it will be a cut/paste for fuel, and routine maintenance, with major replacements at say every 40k/50k km.

Get a list of part changes required and feed them in.

For Yeti I would add at least one AC compressor change in 5 years period, as practically every one I know has had AC problems with German Cars.
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Old 14th July 2012, 10:45   #171
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Thank you Roy, finally someone has an opinion at least. I m really surprised at my failure to elicit any opinions on what seemed to be a simple question.
Umm Devnath, many of us have pretty strong opinions...and we try not to be overly biased - given what we drive - when someone asks a question. Else I (for example) would have rephrased my points in a different manner

Why not try something simple like this:
Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?-picture2.png

Very simple TCO would be Sum(1:6) -7

You can use ARoy's inputs to approximately calculate the maintenance costs (service costs and misc replacement costs). Note that in the image attached I have used service costs and maintenance costs synonymously - no separate line items. Also, I have two line items for service (maintenance) because I have assumed that service costs for European vehicles will increase somewhat after 50K kms.

Note: You can always get into opportunity cost of the money put in a more expensive vehicle, repair costs, modification costs etc. But better to keep things simple in the beginning - don't get overly complex. FYI, some basic Fortuner consumables, replacement costs etc. are there on my ownership thread.

Also, why not list down the features that really matter to you, give weights to each and then compare different vehicles? I had done that when comparing the Grand Vitara, Outlander, the Endeavour, Pajero and the Fortuner. Can't find that sheet anymore though. I remember that space, reliability, 4L, Diesel etc. had significant weightages. I had to compromise on luxury, ride quality etc.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 14th July 2012 at 10:47.
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Old 14th July 2012, 11:00   #172
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
I have the option of buying a brand new (old) Dec 2011 model of the Fortuner with a Toyota dealer at Bangalore. This dealer had 11 2011 vehicles that were supposedly 'thrust' upon him by Toyota in December/just before the launch of the new model and he has 3 more of them in stock. Now the equation:

I m being offered a discount of INR 1.5 lac on the 2011 price of the vehicle which translates to an ex-showroom price of INR 19.00 lacs. I would need to add insurance and registration to it, which takes the deal to around 24 lac INR OTR Bangalore.
If you are looking for a "deal", buy a used SUV.

I don't believe in spending 20+ lakhs, and then compromising by bringing home an older model that has been lying at the dealer for 7 months. Not worth it for only 1.5 lakhs IMHO. It's like going for dinner to a 5 star hotel and getting plain naan instead of butter naan to save 50 bucks.

Buying a premium vehicle is all about the experience and the "feel good" factor. You want a brand new Fortuner? Well, buy a fresh, face-lifted piece.
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Old 14th July 2012, 11:01   #173
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Also, why not list down the features that really matter to you, give weights to each and then compare different vehicles? I had done that when comparing the Grand Vitara, Outlander, the Endeavour, Pajero and the Fortuner. Can't find that sheet anymore though. I remember that space, reliability, 4L, Diesel etc. had significant weightages. I had to compromise on luxury, ride quality etc.
Thank you Nilanjan. Having opinions, and voicing them, is what, I believe adds value to the forum. On many topics, we agree to disagree, and that is the beauty of an open forum. No?

I will certainly use the excel format given by you and the fields suggested by ARoy to arrive at some tangible numbers for both the contenders, however, the other vehicles lose out to these, very easily.
The GV and the Outlander for their petrol engines, the Endy due to its lack of features and horrible seating position, Pajero for its underpowered engine and expensive spares and the Pajero Sport for being as elusive as Aishwarya Rai's daughter.

By the way, I TDed a pre owned Fortuner yesterday and somehow felt that it was better insulated than the showroom vehicle that I TDed a few weeks ago.
Also, I had called Ravindu for a TD today, hoping to get a different vehicle but Ravindu has too much business to give TDs at home and TDs for more than 5 kilometers at the showroom too.
Maybe a Kannada speaking person from old Bangalore doesn't sound like a prospective customer.

Now, if I happen to shortlist a pre owned Fortuner, can you come over to check it since you own one and will better know its differences than me/mechanic?
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Old 14th July 2012, 11:22   #174
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Sure, happy to do so schedule permitting. Weekends better.

I did 3 Fortuner test drives with Nandi on all sorts of roads and high speed drives on NICE Road before buying the vehicle. You might want to try TDs with them.

1st TD: was turned off - too basic, truck like (I had TD'd Outlander etc. before that on the same day)
2nd TD: started liking and reconciling myself to the minuses
3rd TD: was a high speed test. Felt assured that this would be a great mile cruncher and is stable at 100+ speeds.
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Old 14th July 2012, 12:43   #175
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you are looking for a "deal", buy a used SUV.

I don't believe in spending 20+ lakhs, and then compromising by bringing home an older model that has been lying at the dealer for 7 months. Not worth it for only 1.5 lakhs IMHO. It's like going for dinner to a 5 star hotel and getting plain naan instead of butter naan to save 50 bucks.
Thanks Rush, for your inputs. What you say makes sense to me and I m also looking for pre-owned examples but they are over priced thus far.

Also, I prefer the looks of the pre facelift model over the new one, which IMHO looks too flashy and garish.
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Old 21st July 2012, 10:23   #176
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you are looking for a "deal", buy a used SUV.
Finally, this thread comes to, what I feel, is a logical point.

I have 2 options as on date.

1: Buy one of those Dec 2011 Fortuners which will cost me INR 23.5 lac OTR Bangalore which means I gain around INR 4.00lac over the new model's OTR price.

OR

2. I managed to find a pristine 15k kms run March 2011 grey vehicle with a neat service history and usage statistics. This vehicle was initially quoted at INR 23.00lac but I have, thus far negotiated it to INR 21.5 lac.


Which of these seems like a better deal?
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Old 21st July 2012, 10:53   #177
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Finally, this thread comes to, what I feel, is a logical point.

I have 2 options as on date.

2. I managed to find a pristine 15k kms run March 2011 grey vehicle with a neat service history and usage statistics. This vehicle was initially quoted at INR 23.00lac but I have, thus far negotiated it to INR 21.5 lac.


Which of these seems like a better deal?
Dev, if i were in your place this is what i would go for.

A pristinely maintained vehicle which has run its fair share of kms over the year is much better than a supposedly new (?!) vehicle which has been standing at the dealer's yard for over 7 months. Any vehicle needs to be running occassionally, which explains my rationale.

Also, the fact that you have been able to negotiate helps the cause.
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Old 21st July 2012, 11:06   #178
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Dev, if i were in your place this is what i would go for.
Also, the fact that you have been able to negotiate helps the cause.
Thanks Benny, but do you think the deal in itself is VFM?
Also, though I need to check this, when I purchased Hariya, the rates of pre owned and new were the same at Canara Bank as long as the pre owned car was less than 2 years old, and hence I was able to get a decent rate of interest.

However, when I was casually looking through the various bank websites yesterday, I found SBI's pre owned interest rate to be 17.5% compared to the new car interest rate at 11.5 % and HDFC's too around 16%.

I haven't yet checked with Canara Bank.

EDIT: Just called Canara Bank. They DO NOT fund more than INR 6.00lac for a pre-owned vehicle..

Last edited by n.devdath : 21st July 2012 at 11:15.
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Old 21st July 2012, 12:02   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath

Finally, this thread comes to, what I feel, is a logical point.

I have 2 options as on date.

1: Buy one of those Dec 2011 Fortuners which will cost me INR 23.5 lac OTR Bangalore which means I gain around INR 4.00lac over the new model's OTR price.

OR

2. I managed to find a pristine 15k kms run March 2011 grey vehicle with a neat service history and usage statistics. This vehicle was initially quoted at INR 23.00lac but I have, thus far negotiated it to INR 21.5 lac.

Which of these seems like a better deal?
I would go with option 1.
Buying a pre owned vehicle on loan at such high interest rates doesn't make financial sense.
Pre owned if you have the cash.

As for the car standing at the dealer for 7 months, assume that you bought the car and went on a onsite trip. :-D

Last edited by F150 : 21st July 2012 at 12:04.
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Old 6th August 2012, 07:42   #180
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Saar,
what is the latest update ?
Keep us posted.
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