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Old 12th December 2012, 12:59   #271
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Naah, I do not want to TD it again, after TDing it multiple times, and yes, it was the 2012 model that I TDed.
Also, I will not pay 27.5lac OTR Blore for those interiors, that truck like gear lever, that low seating position and super thin paint surfaces that it has. To me, it is one more example of Toyota milking its customers in India, blatantly.

People may throng for it in droves but it doesn't appeal to me anymore, unless, like I ve said earlier, I get a deal that is a steal.
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I do want presence Sheel. Call me a showoff or whatever, but I want the only car in my garage to look imposing, on the move, and when standing.

In addition to presence, I want 7 seats, even if the last row is like the Safari's, a namesake.
I have had, and continue to have occasions where I seat 7 people in Hariya for short and medium (around 100kms round trip) and will not compromise on this aspect.

Coming to the Monty, ah, that is the vehicle of my dreams. 3.2 ltr diesel, 5 speed automatic, proper 4WD, prolly the world's best monocoque...the list is endless.

I absolutely agree with everything you have said about the Fortuner. Let me also ad in, the stupidly positioned rear arm rest and lack of thigh support anywhere in the Fortuner and a drone loud enough to deafen you in a New York Minute. We've been wanting to and now needing to replace/retire our Innova. The Paj Sport seems to be the ticket but the car is narrow and may not be the most comfortable for hauling people around in it. Incidentally I hate the Innova, it moves like a frightened lame horse, a problem which the torquey Fortuner does not have. We may consider the facelifted Santa Fe, but that too seems grossly over priced.
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Old 12th December 2012, 13:06   #272
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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I absolutely agree with everything you have said about the Fortuner. Let me also ad in, the stupidly positioned rear arm rest and lack of thigh support anywhere in the Fortuner and a drone loud enough to deafen you in a New York Minute.
Glad to know there is someone who can/likes to scratch below the surface.

Coming to engine noise, my 5 year old Hariya is far more vibe free and silent.

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The Paj Sport seems to be the ticket but the car is narrow and may not be the most comfortable for hauling people around in it. Incidentally I hate the Innova, it moves like a frightened lame horse, a problem which the torquey Fortuner does not have. We may consider the facelifted Santa Fe, but that too seems grossly over priced.
I m TDing the Sport tomorrow and like you, seating 3 well fed, tall adults comfortably abreast in the middle row is one of my prime criteria as well. I will check that and let you know my thoughts here.

I had tested the current Santa Fe 2.2 AT a few months ago but its lack of bottom grunt due to its small engine put me off, not to mention its quirky Korean styling.

The Montero is what appeals to me but is out of my pocket, at the moment.

Last edited by n.devdath : 12th December 2012 at 13:12.
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Old 12th December 2012, 14:36   #273
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Glad to know there is someone who can/likes to scratch below the surface.

Coming to engine noise, my 5 year old Hariya is far more vibe free and silent.



I m TDing the Sport tomorrow and like you, seating 3 well fed, tall adults comfortably abreast in the middle row is one of my prime criteria as well. I will check that and let you know my thoughts here.

I had tested the current Santa Fe 2.2 AT a few months ago but its lack of bottom grunt due to its small engine put me off, not to mention its quirky Korean styling.

The Montero is what appeals to me but is out of my pocket, at the moment.
At the risk of sounding like an out of touch Noob, is your Hariya your Scorpio mHawk?

Do let me know your opinions on the Sport, we will hopefully be retiring our Innova in the new year, maybe before the fiscal year ends. The Santa Fe does look a bit like a "Gawd-Help-Us" especially the tail lights which appear to be a cheap after market job by a civic driving frat boy. That is not to take anything away from Santa Fe owners, it probably is the best auto-box SUV that can be had in India without shelling out half a crore rupees. Point of fact, we are still considering it, but are waiting for the face lift. Not having test driven the car, I can not comment on its driving characteristics.
The Montero is a monster and would have been worth considering, however its just far too expensive for us as well, and honestly, it makes the BMW X3 2.0 mouth watering for our requirements! But, even if we did have the money, I highly doubt we would want to give anymore of it to our darling famished Karnataka netas. Certainly not with our road and traffic conditions. One has to wonder where all our road taxes go, come to think of it...no not going there, I'm enjoying this day far too much for that nonsense.
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Old 12th December 2012, 14:46   #274
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Yeti or Pajero Sports are the two most reliable 4-wheel drive options in India today. I strongly believe that a personal vehicle needs to be reliable and stress free and that heavy riding SUV's that place a lot of stress on Independent Front Suspensions just cann't be that reliable enough to do the job.

But also take a look at the the 2012 2.2 AWD AT Captiva, 190 ps & 424 nm, 6 speed automatic to boot, it seems, looks & performs like a beast.
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Old 12th December 2012, 15:57   #275
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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At the risk of sounding like an out of touch Noob, is your Hariya your Scorpio mHawk?
Scorpio yes, but a CRDe, and when I compare the market to what he offers me, I m elated, every time. Can't say the same about MHawks though.

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Do let me know your opinions on the Sport, we will hopefully be retiring our Innova in the new year, maybe before the fiscal year ends. The Santa Fe does look a bit like a "Gawd-Help-Us" especially the tail lights which appear to be a cheap after market job by a civic driving frat boy. That is not to take anything away from Santa Fe owners, it probably is the best auto-box SUV that can be had in India without shelling out half a crore rupees. Point of fact, we are still considering it, but are waiting for the face lift. Not having test driven the car, I can not comment on its driving characteristics.
Sure will.
I too haven't driven the new gen Santa Fe but yes, I m kind of old fashioned and prefer good low end grunt, especially if it is a manual vehicle or an average automatic. Let's see what it has in store.
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The Montero is a monster and would have been worth considering, however its just far too expensive for us as well, and honestly, it makes the BMW X3 2.0 mouth watering for our requirements!
Precisely, the cost is the only factor going against the wonderful Montero. In fact, given a chance, I d buy it over any other vehicle, the Germans included.

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Yeti or Pajero Sports are the two most reliable 4-wheel drive options in India today. I strongly believe that a personal vehicle needs to be reliable and stress free and that heavy riding SUV's that place a lot of stress on Independent Front Suspensions just cann't be that reliable enough to do the job.

But also take a look at the the 2012 2.2 AWD AT Captiva, 190 ps & 424 nm, 6 speed automatic to boot, it seems, looks & performs like a beast.
The Yeti is out for reasons mentioned in other replies, the Sport road test is tomorrow.

I will NOT buy a softie which takes away quite a few contenders, except the XUV since it really has no competition for its price and features.
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Old 13th December 2012, 16:10   #276
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Hi Devdath,

Have you had your drive yet? We are all eagerly awaiting your valuable first impression!

Last edited by imp! : 13th December 2012 at 16:20.
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Old 13th December 2012, 16:36   #277
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Wow, similar boat different users, The decision between the Pajero Sports and the Fortuner is a heavy one. You can say heart over mind really. The fortuner is the mind and the Pajero is the heart. Only one can win, in our case the mind won.

Do properly inquire about the Service aspects at Mitsubishi, this was the deal breaker for us. Otherwise what a car Sirji.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:54   #278
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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The fortuner is the mind and the Pajero is the heart. Only one can win, in our case the mind won.
Not really.
Though I m yet to drive the PS, I will NEVER buy the Fortuner solely due to the following "Mind Based" factors:

1. That horrible ride quality.
2. INR 10 lac interiors for INR 27 lac.
3. Mediocre brakes.
4. Truck like ergonomics for the driver.
5. 4 speed auto box. It is not a Bajaj Chetak for crying out loud.
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Old 14th December 2012, 13:15   #279
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Some things that come to my mind when i think like a non technical person,

the fortuner to me is boring but reliable, but the Pajero is interestingly reliable,

but if i had to choose between the SFX and the sport i'd choose the SFX in a heart beat
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Old 14th December 2012, 13:16   #280
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Not really.
Though I m yet to drive the PS, I will NEVER buy the Fortuner solely due to the following "Mind Based" factors:

1. That horrible ride quality.
2. INR 10 lac interiors for INR 27 lac.
3. Mediocre brakes.
4. Truck like ergonomics for the driver.
5. 4 speed auto box. It is not a Bajaj Chetak for crying out loud.
I felt the ride quality OK, not stellar but it was livable. The interior aspect I looked at from a different aspect. If you really sit down and compare the Pajero and the Fortuner interior wise, I will not consider the other's as those really were never in consideration. Fair enough the Pajero is better BUT it does not go to that levels that the Fortuner can't compare. It is more 19:21 or even 18:22 not that much more. But for what the interiors are, they feel that they will probably outlast their owners and that is a reassuring thing. So interior for me on those aspects were OK.
Brakes you are spot on and that is scary, guess will have to do crazy drives on my Civic and handle this elephant with care.
Regarding the Auto box, I have never really driven Auto's so can't say what the implications will be of a 4 speed. It felt responsive and fast for me on my short TD.

But the biggest and this was quite important for me factor is the Reliability of the Toyota Brand, we frequent Himachal Pradesh every month sometimes 2 times a month and Toyota has three dealerships there, compared to 0 of Mitsubishi.

PS- And a very small thing and this was just me personally, as rest of the family were not concerned with this, for the Pajero Sports when you sell a potentially 27 Lakh OTR vehicle in India and give that ridiculous excuse of a music player, what were you thinking Mitsubishi. Even my Figo for 6 Lakh has a more feature rich system. It just gave me the impression that someone in Japan was so frustrated with the Indian innings of Mitsu, that he just OK'd the files that please God lets just release something Anything.
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Old 14th December 2012, 15:14   #281
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Hmm, lot's of Fortuner bashing going on :-)

Here's my take b/w the Fortuner and Pajero Sport:
* I feel that both are similar and more or less equal, the vehicle pluses and minuses add up
* The deal breaker: Indian ASCs know very little about 4WD operations and vehicles. If you plan to do just mallroading or good road driving no issues. But if you offroad or 'badroad' regularly, and require the necessary maintenance, then it is better to go with the lesser of two evils. I feel Toyota ASCs - while better than most in this country - still suck as far as 4WD vehicle knowledge is concerned (read the experiences with prop shaft greasing, diagnosis of issues etc). And given the Mitsu - HM mess, I would think that the Mitsubishi ASCs would suck even more since good folks would probably gravitate towards the more popular/bigger brands where mobility is better.

Disclaimer: I am in the Toyota camp, and talking from the perspective of using these vehicles the way they are meant to be used.
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Old 14th December 2012, 17:48   #282
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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I felt the ride quality OK, not stellar but it was livable.
For this kind of money, I will not buy a vehicle with an "OK" or a livable ride quality. I need it to be stellar.
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The interior aspect I looked at from a different aspect. If you really sit down and compare the Pajero and the Fortuner interior wise, I will not consider the other's as those really were never in consideration. Fair enough the Pajero is better BUT it does not go to that levels that the Fortuner can't compare.
So, I will buy the vehicle with better interiors.
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It is more 19:21 or even 18:22 not that much more. But for what the interiors are, they feel that they will probably outlast their owners and that is a reassuring thing.
This is common to both.
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Brakes you are spot on and that is scary, guess will have to do crazy drives on my Civic and handle this elephant with care.
I cannot compromise on this, for this price.
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Regarding the Auto box, I have never really driven Auto's so can't say what the implications will be of a 4 speed. It felt responsive and fast for me on my short TD.
Tihe autobox is responsive due to its short gearing but for my requirements, which are primarily on the highway, I need a 5 or more speeder. Also, it is simply outdated to sell a 4 speed box today, at this price.

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But the biggest and this was quite important for me factor is the Reliability of the Toyota Brand, we frequent Himachal Pradesh every month sometimes 2 times a month and Toyota has three dealerships there, compared to 0 of Mitsubishi.
None of them will break down, probably ever, if maintained to the most basic levels so in all probability you will see an ASC, only when you want see it, and not the vehicle.


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PS- And a very small thing and this was just me personally, as rest of the family were not concerned with this, for the Pajero Sports when you sell a potentially 27 Lakh OTR vehicle in India and give that ridiculous excuse of a music player, what were you thinking Mitsubishi. Even my Figo for 6 Lakh has a more feature rich system. It just gave me the impression that someone in Japan was so frustrated with the Indian innings of Mitsu, that he just OK'd the files that please God lets just release something Anything.
The music system is a let down, completely agreed. However, have you listened to it? I did today and while I felt like throwing away that face plate, the speakers are really good.

PS: These are my views and I do not intend to offend you in any way. By the way, HP is my "sasuraal" too.

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* The deal breaker: Indian ASCs know very little about 4WD operations and vehicles.
Precisely Nilanjan. This needs to be seen and observed. The only saving grace is the fact that both of them are pretty hardy on their own with minimal care required and hence with a cautious owner, can tolerate a few grease monkeys, at the ASC.
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Old 14th December 2012, 20:58   #283
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
For this kind of money, I will not buy a vehicle with an "OK" or a livable ride quality. I need it to be stellar.

So, I will buy the vehicle with better interiors.

This is common to both.
I cannot compromise on this, for this price.
Tihe autobox is responsive due to its short gearing but for my requirements, which are primarily on the highway, I need a 5 or more speeder. Also, it is simply outdated to sell a 4 speed box today, at this price.


None of them will break down, probably ever, if maintained to the most basic levels so in all probability you will see an ASC, only when you want see it, and not the vehicle.



The music system is a let down, completely agreed. However, have you listened to it? I did today and while I felt like throwing away that face plate, the speakers are really good.

PS: These are my views and I do not intend to offend you in any way. By the way, HP is my "sasuraal" too.


Precisely Nilanjan. This needs to be seen and observed. The only saving grace is the fact that both of them are pretty hardy on their own with minimal care required and hence with a cautious owner, can tolerate a few grease monkeys, at the ASC.
So, what it is going to be for you Dev.. This is really getting interesting (likewise i will be in two minds a couple of months after) to hunt for a reliable comfortable 4x4 for the price i pay for the almost same point you raise elegantly above.
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Old 14th December 2012, 21:05   #284
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Seriously, even with heavy off reading, 4WD systems usually will need service only outside of warranty. There have got to be independent mechanics that aren't completely inept to do so. If you break something because you didn't/couldn't see a boulder, that is a different story.
I honestly feel that at some point debating the quality of A.S.S becomes redundant. I personally will never buy a Toyota vehicle that sells just because it is a Toyota. The original Corolla was a beautiful car, it had wonderful soft touch plastics, exquisite fabrics and it was insanely good fun to drive, not to mention comfortable to be in. Can anybody say the same about the Altis? The plastics are hard and that alone is enough to put you off and point you towards Honda/VAG group. The Innova interiors too have been becoming increasingly spartan, our 7-8 year old Innova looks better from the inside than the newest Innova. The Fortuner which is insanely expensive also has bad quality hard plastics, and a 10 mm gap in the center arm rest to boot. The Honda brio has a better quality dash. Is one paying for A.S.S more than the car itself? Not me, I will maintain the car myself if I have to, but I will no longer buy a machine simply because "there are no other choices"; might as well go back to the days of the Zen and Esteem being aspirational cars. If this is the kind of machine I'm expected to drive at this price I'd rather ride a cycle. Sorry if I've pushed anyone's buttons,I've meant no insult. This is just an opinion which is based on my requirements. Others of course have their own perspective based on their requirements.
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Old 14th December 2012, 21:41   #285
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

If the need is to go long distance drives, remote locations, lonely roads, off-road at times- I would choose to be in the Scorpio. And above that, with a new vehicle- comes everything new (tyres, breaks, clutch, engine......), warranty.... and so on.
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