Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th October 2013, 23:15   #376
Senior - BHPian
 
F150's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: PUNE
Posts: 1,557
Thanked: 646 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Well, I kind of agree but also feel that with the Fortuner and the Pajero Sport, you really don't get what you pay for. You get a lot lesser.

When it comes to the Storme or the XUV/Scorpio, I feel that you get more than what you pay for but with its caveats.
That is your perception of value.

For example, guderian who upgraded from a scorpio has a different reception of the fortuner's value.

At the end of the day, one can travel in a VW VENTO and SKODA SUPERB.

It is all about perceived value, which varies from person to person.

So, I dont see any point in debating about Fortuner's lack of VFM as per your perception.

You like the STORME from the looks of it. I think you should go ahead.
F150 is offline  
Old 27th October 2013, 10:01   #377
BHPian
 
Styler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 392
Thanked: 212 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Have any of you considered the Ssangyong Rexton or the Hyundai Santa-Fe.
Rexton is a great SUV but lacks in service. Somebody wrote a detailed travelogue - Driving a Rexton through Spiti without a problem.
Santa-Fe is a world class SUV too.
Just some more ideas to add to the confusion of this thread

Styler

Last edited by Styler : 27th October 2013 at 10:09.
Styler is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th October 2013, 10:41   #378
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 946
Thanked: 295 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post

That is your perception of value.

It is all about perceived value, which varies from person to person.

So, I dont see any point in debating about Fortuner's lack of VFM as per your perception.
You have missed the point here a little, what dev opines here and so do I, consider a situation that there is no other SUV available other than TFort. People may buy it for even 50L but what is its value when there is nothing else to compare? Considering what it offers and does not, without comparing it with any other SUV. I'd say it would have been fair value if it was priced 5L more than Storm, but anything more than that is free money to the seller.
zulfi hansi is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 27th October 2013, 10:46   #379
Senior - BHPian
 
F150's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: PUNE
Posts: 1,557
Thanked: 646 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post

You have missed the point here a little, what dev opines here and so do I, consider a situation that there is no other SUV available other than TFort. People may buy it for even 50L but what is its value when there is nothing else to compare? Considering what it offers and does not, without comparing it with any other SUV. I'd say it would have been fair value if it was priced 5L more than Storm, but anything more than that is free money to the seller.
May be true, but the sales figures aren't reflecting the above school of thought.

Which again comes back to perceived value.

Buyers are ok paying 28L, it is the motor heads like us who get in to the details.

Last edited by F150 : 27th October 2013 at 10:51.
F150 is offline  
Old 27th October 2013, 10:50   #380
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,961
Thanked: 1,714 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
You have missed the point here a little, what dev opines here and so do I, consider a situation that there is no other SUV available other than TFort. People may buy it for even 50L but what is its value when there is nothing else to compare? Considering what it offers and does not, without comparing it with any other SUV. I'd say it would have been fair value if it was priced 5L more than Storm, but anything more than that is free money to the seller.
Precisely my point and it has been agreed to by a lot of us here. Toyota is milking its customers here, simply because there are no choices in that segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
May be true, but the sales figures aren't reflecting the above school of thought.
Sales figures also do not reflect that the Storme is leagues ahead of the Scorpio.
So, can that fact be negated? Not in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Have any of you considered the Ssangyong Rexton or the Hyundai Santa-Fe.
I need a vehicle with a proper 4H and 4L modes, preferably using a lever but I can compromise for a button/knob.

Now, the Rexton AT, which has all the other bells whistles for its price is an AWD and not a 4WD.

The Santa Fe is even more expensive compared to the Toyota and the Mitsubishi and it looks quirky in my opinion.

Last edited by n.devdath : 27th October 2013 at 10:53.
n.devdath is online now  
Old 27th October 2013, 10:53   #381
Senior - BHPian
 
F150's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: PUNE
Posts: 1,557
Thanked: 646 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Precisely my point and it has been agreed to by a lot of us here. Toyota is milking its customers here, simply because there are no choices in that segment.

Sales figures also do not reflect that the Storme is leagues ahead of the Scorpio.
So, can that fact be negated? Not in my opinion.
Sir, it is all about perception.

You are able to see the value of storme, others aren't.

That's where team bhp comes in to picture. Perceived value vs actual value.

But then the current market is ruthless and prefers reliability, where toyota excels.

Last edited by F150 : 27th October 2013 at 10:56.
F150 is offline  
Old 27th October 2013, 11:49   #382
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 946
Thanked: 295 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post

May be true, but the sales figures aren't reflecting the above school of thought.

Which again comes back to perceived value.

Buyers are ok paying 28L, it is the motor heads like us who get in to the details.
Agreed. Perceived value derived here by us at tbhp is for what it offers while we exclude the non productive part of so called image value, which ironically is the only reason why TFort is overpriced since more than 80% of its buyers do not buy it for what it offers in its abilities and as a car but for what it gives them in terms of image boost in the society, even Etios is also a Toyota but how many are buying it? In its right even that is a Toyota and offers most of what any Toyota does, but it does not offer image value, which IMHO is a completely redundant reason to account for value addition. A car is what it technically offers and nothing more. If you take away that component from the fortuner, what is its value? Even corolla was at this epitome once but not anymore, I am sure Toyota without blinking will drop that premium off if at all Fortuner loses its so called image boosting capabilities, but that is easier said than done. Toyota is a smart company it started to offer what its majority fortuner customers wanted, a 4x2 old school SUV! As if it makes any sense for people like us here, but in economics it does. So sales figures can never be a parameter for tbhpens.

Last edited by zulfi hansi : 27th October 2013 at 11:52.
zulfi hansi is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 27th October 2013, 12:02   #383
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 1,006 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

What Fortuner offers is reliability, low maintenance and an extensive service network. People the world over buy Toyota for primarily that reason. The Pajero has reliability but no service network worth the name, and the company is clue less here.

The Indian 4x4 offerings have a lot more accessories and comfort, they have a wide service network, but sadly the bulletproof reliability is missing. That is why the buyers pay more for Toyota even though they are "boring" to dive.
Aroy is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 27th October 2013, 15:23   #384
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,961
Thanked: 1,714 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Sir, it is all about perception.

You are able to see the value of storme, others aren't.

That's where team bhp comes in to picture. Perceived value vs actual value.

But then the current market is ruthless and prefers reliability, where toyota excels.
Yes, this is where forums like TBHP come in. They help people in choosing "real value" over "perceived value".

If we enthusiasts and better enlightened people than most were to go by the market, such forums lose their importance and effectiveness.


Also, coming to the reliability Toyota offers, I have no reason to complain after having traveled with Hariya(My CRDe Scorpio) for the past 92k kms and neither do the owners of the Safari 2.2 post 2010.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
So sales figures can never be a parameter for tbhpians.
Summed it perfectly Zulfi.
n.devdath is online now  
Old 1st November 2013, 14:37   #385
BHPian
 
TheTeacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Space-Time
Posts: 480
Thanked: 319 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
So sales figures can never be a parameter for tbhpens.
That's why I bought a Fiat Linea T-Jet!
TheTeacher is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 1st December 2013, 20:16   #386
BHPian
 
roadjourno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BLR,PNQ
Posts: 76
Thanked: 34 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Yes, this is where forums like TBHP come in. They help people in choosing "real value" over "perceived value".
Thanks for the insights dev..yours and forums views helps us narrow down to only fortuner 4*4 mt. Hopefully it arrives within a couple of months
roadjourno is offline  
Old 4th December 2013, 20:18   #387
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,961
Thanked: 1,714 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadjourno View Post
Thanks for the insights dev..yours and forums views helps us narrow down to only fortuner 4*4 mt. Hopefully it arrives within a couple of months
You are most welcome. I visit JBP at least twice every year when I drive to Singrauli and would be interested to meet you when I pass that city the next time.

OT: I was at Lakhnadon a couple of days ago as well.
n.devdath is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 10th December 2013, 04:09   #388
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 946
Thanked: 295 Times
Default

Got to know from M&M asst. Mgr that Korando is to be launched in Feb 2014, they were very sure of this news but no more details. @dev I don't know how much this news is relevant for you, but even the Rexton RX5 manual is now 23.85L OTR, but offered with discounts of 1L, if negotiated further may give you another 25K, but IMO I don't think its VFM even at 22.6L OTR, since the last row seats are best for patient kids! Effectively its a overgrown 5 seater. For me Korando could make sense though subject to a lot of things.
zulfi hansi is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th December 2013, 09:43   #389
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,961
Thanked: 1,714 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
IMO I don't think its VFM even at 22.6L OTR, since the last row seats are best for patient kids! Effectively its a overgrown 5 seater.
Apart from the iffy ergonomics, it the questionable M&M ability to support the Rexton that keeps me away from it. Also, Ssangyong in itself is not a very well known brand for its reliability which adds to the suspicion.
n.devdath is online now   (2) Thanks
Old 10th December 2013, 10:44   #390
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 946
Thanked: 295 Times
Default Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

True, the product looks good but the brand is not reputed enough to fork out that kind of money (23L). In long term high mileage usage resale value may not matter much but the service support and reliability certainly does. BTW incidentally saw a Santafe at one of the dealers in Sadashivnagar, it was 2011-12 run about 70K, looked good atleast on surface and priced at 16.5L negotiable, probably might come down to 15L. To my little it was priced significantly lower than a comparable Fortuner. But yes it does look quirky.
zulfi hansi is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Sunset Orange Mahindra XUV500 AWD W10. EDIT : 40000 km service update Tanveer_2558 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 330 7th August 2017 02:15
25 Lakh INR cars sold at 3lakh INR !!! speedsatya The Indian Car Scene 3 22nd June 2010 21:58
Verna CRDI SX (ABS) or ANHC (2009) S M/T: Which is the best buy for 10+ lakh INR? sathya79 Sedans 78 13th January 2010 22:35


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:05.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks