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Old 7th March 2012, 20:39   #31
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
I so far am the only person who has voted for the used Paj.

My order of preference would be the following

1) Used Paj or used Fortuner
2) New Paj or new Fortuner
3) New Scorpio
Well, this is what I too am looking at but unfortunately, most friends on the forum advise against pre-owned cars, especially when I intend to keep it for a very long term.

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
Why do you want to go for VLX? As somebody has mentioned, the electronics on Mahindra cars are suspect. Apart from the electronics, the vehicles are built to last, can take in a lot of abuse and very reliable. If I had the money I would go for a Scorpio LX 4wd without all those fancy electronics of the VLX. As far as 4wd shift lever is concerned, I think it can be retrofitted at a later time.
The manual 4WD lever cannot be retrofitted on a electronic transfer case. Secondly, the LX doesn't have quite a few features that I feel are required for me like airbags, ABS and immobiliser, rear power window switches on the rear door pads, single colored centre console and upholstery etc etc. Having owned an SLX, downgrading to an LX is something I wouldn't do.

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Pajero has been on my radar for quite some years, and I hope to collect enough funds to procure one someday. I any day prefer a mechanical beast with minimal electronics, to one with loads of (buggy?) electronics.

For ride comfort I would go with the Pajero any time. Its cruising speed of 120 is good enough for me, and its dexterity on bad roads, more than makes up for its lower FE on highway. A major advantage is its phenomenal low end torque, which means you never have to slip the clutch to get it out of a "sticky" situation.

Regarding spares, be thankful that at least they are available for Pajero, which as you have commented are disappearing for our home grown products.
For reasons explained to Black Pearl, I will not buy the LX. Pajero spares, I m sure are available but Pajero owners tell me, on this very thread that they are pretty expensive since they are all imported which also means that if Mitsubishi shuts shop, for any reason, then the prices might increase further.

It is a tough choice at the moment, with most people advising me to wait for a new Pajero/Fortuner than buying a new Scorpio VLX.
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Old 7th March 2012, 20:57   #32
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

I voted for the Fortuner but ofcourse thats subject to your budget. If you can stretch and go for a new Fortuner then nothing like it. Otherwise go for a New scorpio. I have always believed that there are very little things that can match the excitement of a new car that too a butch looking fortuner.
I would not go with the Pajero just because of the age old interiors and sad affairs of the company. Most importantly one can never be sure how well the car has been maintained. I was 100% strict in not taking my new car through any pothole or rev it too high in the run in period.

Last edited by drmohitg : 7th March 2012 at 20:59.
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Old 7th March 2012, 21:37   #33
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

I voted for a brand new Scorpio vlx 4wd.

My personal view is buy what you are comfortable with today. Who has seen tomorrow. Anyway Scorpio has excellent realse value so even IF you want to change is 4-5yrs you can do so. The choices in the market whould also have changed and you would be able to buy AND maintain with peace of mind.

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Old 7th March 2012, 21:45   #34
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
especially when I intend to keep it for a very long term.
The manual 4WD lever cannot be retrofitted on a electronic transfer case.
A 4x4 Scorpio Vlx is what I would suggest, if you are happy with its ride.
But then again, you already own a Scorp and we need not expect great improvements in the quality of it's interiors and plastics from M&M in the days to come. Scorpio's, generally, if maintained reasonably well, can keep munching miles without much headache. HVK's Scorp is a standing example of that fact. Critical spares will be available as long as M&M continues to plonk in the Mhawk/M Eagle engines and the NGT 520/530 GB, which one can safely assume to go on for another ~ 10 years.

AFAIK, The 4x4 Scorp comes with Brog Warner TC and so, the electronic shifter and its goddamn ECU shouldn't be a problem. Check this out: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...r-cases-3.html (Mahindra Transfer Cases)
But since the vlx comes loaded with electronics, not sure if fiddling with the TC ECU will throw up CAN error codes.

Last edited by jeeva : 7th March 2012 at 21:49.
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Old 7th March 2012, 21:47   #35
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Well, this is what I too am looking at but unfortunately, most friends on the forum advise against pre-owned cars, especially when I intend to keep it for a very long term.
Fair enough, but my question is as follows. How much approximately do you intend to drive a year. If for the sake of argument it is 10,000 km a year, do you really think it makes a difference if after 10 years of your ownership it matters if you have a Pajero that is even say 15 years old and has done 150,000 km. The Paj will take that amount of use with no problems at all. JMHO
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Old 7th March 2012, 21:57   #36
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

I voted for the Pajero.
2-3 years and 40K is nothing for that cars life.

But I do find it odd that you have not even thought of the XUV form the same stable as the Scoripo. You say you wanted a big SVU, XUV that suits you then.
I dont know about its 4x4 but it did do well in the desert storm,its not a hard core Off-roader but neither do I think that the scorpio is.

Last edited by nanu28 : 7th March 2012 at 22:09.
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Old 7th March 2012, 23:23   #37
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I voted for the Fortuner but ofcourse thats subject to your budget. If you can stretch and go for a new Fortuner then nothing like it. Otherwise go for a New scorpio. I have always believed that there are very little things that can match the excitement of a new car that too a butch looking fortuner.
I would not go with the Pajero just because of the age old interiors and sad affairs of the company. Most importantly one can never be sure how well the car has been maintained. I was 100% strict in not taking my new car through any pothole or rev it too high in the run in period.
Yes Doc, going in for a new Fortuner would put all my worries to an end but then I cannot afford it.
A new Scorpio 4WD certainly appeals to me since the EW would take care of most issues for 4 more years, but the only concern I have is the availability of spares, especially small rubber and plastic parts and the tendency of the vehicle to develop small rattles and squeaks in say, 70-100k kms of usage.

I would not mind the Pajero but after its owners have said that its spares are expensive, pretty expensive, I have begun to develop cold feet, and most importantly, a pre-owned vehicle increases.
See my position...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlow View Post
Anyway Scorpio has excellent realse value so even IF you want to change is 4-5yrs you can do so. The choices in the market whould also have changed and you would be able to buy AND maintain with peace of mind.
Well Ankit, the way our market seems to be headed, lever shifts are certainly getting rare, be it the upcoming tech loaded crossovers or SUVs. Couple that with the fact that the world over, it is two venerable Japs that have always been leading in the real SUV segment, you know what I mean. Things, especially in the segment we are talking about, might not change all that much.

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Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
A 4x4 Scorpio Vlx is what I would suggest, if you are happy with its ride.
But then again, you already own a Scorp and we need not expect great improvements in the quality of it's interiors and plastics from M&M in the days to come. Scorpio's, generally, if maintained reasonably well, can keep munching miles without much headache.
Jeeva, Hariya has proven himself admirably well thus far, when it comes to core mechanicals and reliability and I m sure the new gen 2.2s too are pretty reliable, however, my concern is the availability of small but critical spares, regularly at M&M dealerships, which is lacking, even today.

Coming to HVK's Scorp, he is a good friend and I ve seen his vehicle umpteen times but he too has been facing spare parts issues for a long long time now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
Fair enough, but my question is as follows. How much approximately do you intend to drive a year.
I will drive around 30k kms per year on the highways while my intra city driving has been and will be negligible. I wouldn't have bothered to start this thread at all had my driving been less than this or had all these kms been on 4 laners.
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Originally Posted by nanu28 View Post
But I do find it odd that you have not even thought of the XUV form the same stable as the Scoripo. You say you wanted a big SVU, XUV that suits you then.
The XUV, is exactly what I do not want. It is a crossover with a techy AWD system. What I m looking for, is a proper 4WD system, preferably a manual shift with a 4WD High and Low range transfer case, like our Jeeps of yore.
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Old 7th March 2012, 23:56   #38
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
The XUV, is exactly what I do not want. It is a crossover with a techy AWD system. What I m looking for, is a proper 4WD system, preferably a manual shift with a 4WD High and Low range transfer case, like our Jeeps of yore..

Oh well, I just got me a used grand vitara for 7L.
Has a great 4L and I love it, but coming to your point then I think its only the Pajero over the scorpio,
I don't think you should even add the scorpio to that list if Off-roading is what you are looking for.
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Old 8th March 2012, 01:00   #39
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

What happened, Dev? Wore out Hariya with all those cross-country trips? Or did the lady demand that you get a new car?

Why not a pre-owned Fortuner?
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Old 8th March 2012, 09:53   #40
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Yes Doc, going in for a new Fortuner would put all my worries to an end but then I cannot afford it.
IMHO Fortuner is totally non-VFM as a car. Yes its got the looks, and the reliability factor but it totally fails you when it comes to pampering yourself. And I am saying this being one of the biggest Toyota fans.

Quote:
A new Scorpio 4WD certainly appeals to me since the EW would take care of most issues for 4 more years, but the only concern I have is the availability of spares, especially small rubber and plastic parts and the tendency of the vehicle to develop small rattles and squeaks in say, 70-100k kms of usage.
Thats a call you have to take. Also you already own a scorpio. Don't you want a change from it now? BTW if you are fine with Indian automakers why not give a thought to the Aria?

Quote:
I would not mind the Pajero but after its owners have said that its spares are expensive, pretty expensive, I have begun to develop cold feet, and most importantly, a pre-owned vehicle increases.
See my position...
Thats very true. Pajero is a 20L Rs car and hence will cost you a good amount to maintain. This is where Fortuner scores over all its rivals. According to me you should go for a used Fortuner. There must be quite a few available now. They do tend to hold on to there value so you might need to shell out a little more than 15L for a good car. But with the Fortuner you can be stress free, the after sales will not pinch your pocket too much and the car will go on serving you for as long as you want. I would certainly go for a used Fortuner even if that means waiting a few months more to increase the budget. And with a new Foruner launched, the older model is bound to lose a little more value in the used market.

Edit: Have you ruled out a used Ford Endeavour? I saw some of them going for around 12L on carwale and they had all done around 30-40k kms. You can consider that too. For instance take a look at this on carwale: http://www.carwale.com/used/search.a...e=5&model=5.11

Last edited by drmohitg : 8th March 2012 at 10:00.
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Old 8th March 2012, 10:07   #41
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
What happened, Dev? Wore out Hariya with all those cross-country trips?
Why not a pre-owned Fortuner?
LOL, no Doc, Hariya still feels fresh as a daisy. It is the itch of getting 4WD that is putting me in this situation. A pre-owned Fortuner seems to be the only option being suggested by most wise people since new Fortuner is out of reach.

How has your ownership been with the Hawk-On-Fours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
IMHO Fortuner is totally non-VFM as a car. Yes its got the looks, and the reliability factor but it totally fails you when it comes to pampering yourself. And I am saying this being one of the biggest Toyota fans.


Thats a call you have to take. Also you already own a scorpio. Don't you want a change from it now? BTW if you are fine with Indian automakers why not give a thought to the Aria?


Thats very true. Pajero is a 20L Rs car and hence will cost you a good to maintain. This is where Fortuner scores over all its rivals. According to me you should go for a used Fortuner. There must be quite a few available now. They do tend to hold on to there value so you might need to shell out a little more than 15L for a good car. But with the Fortuner you can be stress free, the after sales will not pinch your pocket too much and the car will go on serving you for as long as you want. I would certainly go for a used Fortuner even if that means waiting a few months more to increase the budget. And with a new Foruner launched, the older model is bound to lose a little more value in the used market.
Thanks Doc, in fact, I was TDing the all new Fortuner a few days ago and yes, it is totally devoid of the INR 20 lac feel that is expected out of it. Feels like an Innova on steriods, totally. However, I know that deep inside it has that longevity and reliability coupled with decent cost of maintenance and FE which fits my requirements to T. I wish I could afford a new one though, as suggested by most people on the poll too.

At the point, a pre-owned Fortuner means most sense is what I concur from your inputs.

I m not at all bored with the Scorpio and would have happily continued with it IF these small spares were not a concern. That apart, I m totally delighted with the Scorpio and have no qualms with it, which is why my heart is still set on it.
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Old 8th March 2012, 10:12   #42
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
At the point, a pre-owned Fortuner means most sense is what I concur from your inputs.

I m not at all bored with the Scorpio and would have happily continued with it IF these small spares were not a concern. That apart, I m totally delighted with the Scorpio and have no qualms with it, which is why my heart is still set on it.
Hey just wanted to make sure you didn't miss out on the Ford Endeavour option. I added it later in my post so just making sure it didn't go unnoticed .

I would most certainly suggest you to not go for a new scorpio. However good a car is, one does get bored after some time.
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Old 8th March 2012, 10:24   #43
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
How has your ownership been with the Hawk-On-Fours?
You don't need me to spell that out for you! And no, I am not bored yet after almost 2.5 years & 60k km.
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Old 8th March 2012, 12:58   #44
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Here's my 2 cents....if at all they are worth!
Why are you stuck on a Pajero - it simply does not make the cut in 2012 anymore. The pajero that we are talking about in India is a 90's vehicle. Period.
If I was you, i would go for a new Fortuner or XUV. New vehicles, proven, warranty, peace of mind!
You dont have too many SUV choices in India, and you dont want to spend a fresh pool of money to get a Scorpio yet again. I would say go for Fortuner or XUV.
Stay away from Pajero - specially used ones. My cousin bought a used one last year and believe me, he is cursing the day he made that decision. Lots of maintenance, unrefined, and uh that 90s feeling. It was a good vehicle in the 90s/early 2000...not ANYMORE!
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Old 8th March 2012, 13:07   #45
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Default re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Any day a New or Used Fortuner in comparison to the XUV.

The XUV still has to prove itself and bed down in the marketplace. Agreed it is a relatively inexpensive, heavily goodies loaded thing, but that alone is not enough. It still lacks a certain refinement, its fit and finish are not quite there, there are reliability issues on the electronics and fiddly bits and it has yet to inspire confidence in the larger mass of people.

People are a bit blinded with the "gilt frame" and are a bit nuts about it right now because of its pricing strategy and the fact that is loaded with features. As we are seeing, thats typically all it takes to create a good value proposition in the mass SUV buyer's mind here.

However, if one is slightly more discerning, one would step back a bit and take a longer view before making a decision.

Perhaps it might be a good idea to wait for that new Captiva OR Trailblazer OR at least view the Ssangyong products when they come, before plonking money down now.

Others like the Force One, Safari Storme etc are completely out of the running in my opinion because what they have offered to consumers is too little, too late. In any case they arent close to expectations when it comes to a discerning customers requirements.

Yes indeed, we still dont have that many proper SUV options but this is changing quite rapidly.


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Originally Posted by ashwin_seattle View Post
If I was you, i would go for a new Fortuner or XUV. New vehicles, proven, warranty, peace of mind!
I would say go for Fortuner or XUV.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 8th March 2012 at 13:10.
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