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Old 30th July 2012, 17:14   #16
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

For 10 years of ownership i would not touch the current Safari and XUV with a pole. The only other option that remains is Duster but that is also not tried and tested under Indian conditions.

Although Duster looks like a decent option, my recommendation would be to wait for some newer launches (especially if you are looking at ownership for 10 years). I would look at Safari Storme and everything else that gets launched in between.

Not sure if there are any SUV/MUV slated to be launched soon.
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Old 30th July 2012, 18:21   #17
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

@Chinkara,

If you can wait for a few months then maybe you'll have 1 more option like the Storme coming your way. In any case, If you book a Duster today, deliveries will happen around the time (2-3 months from now) the Storme would be launched so you are going to re-evaluate your decision anyways. lol. So might as well wait.

I love the current Safari look and was not terribly excited with the Storme but I happened to see it in person one day and that totally did change my opinion. It looks way better in flesh. And if you assume some level of rationality from TML, they would offer a more niggle-free/reliable/refined vehicle in the Storme.

Time will tell a lot of things and I suggest you should take some more.

Cheers,
Adi
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Old 30th July 2012, 21:31   #18
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

Thanks for all the responses.

Sorry to be so late to get back.
To GTO and NegativeH about 4x4: As I mentioned, we do travel a fair bit. While we would not go for off-roading proper, we have gotten stuck on our wagon R twice. Once on a stream that had encroached upon a road somewhere in HP in the night -- even I don't know where, we had lost our way and were taking some roads recommended by villagers. The next time on a mountain road where I had descended and suddenly found that the road had vanished due to a landslide. With no room to take an U and no momentum, had a really tough time reversing a Wagon R up a steep incline. These are 2 occasions in the past 18 months or so when I felt a 4x4 would have been handy. So, again I would prefer 4x4 unless it is very expensive.

AVR, I hear what you say and maybe we too might like Storme once we see it in flesh, but I doubt it. To both of us a lot of the character of the safari is given by the rear wheel. Additionally, the dealers are saying that launch is unlikely before Diwali, i.e. beginning of November. And like offroadie, I too am afraid that it might be priced higher than the Safari, which anyway stretches my budget.

Mayank, Devdath, I get your point about Indian vehicles and long term ownership. But I do not have any Japanese option, so it is immaterial. If Grand Vitara was 12 L I would have bought it by now. And I am reluctant to spend that kind of money on a second hand - in my mind, second hand belongs to 5-6 L range. Besides, many people seem to have 6-7 years of Safari ownership, some seem happy, some seem in tears. And I do know there was a quantum improvement in quality in 2008-09 (worked in TML before, you see, though not for them).

ShankarBalan, thanks for your inputs. You have nicely articulated my thoughts, only difference is it would be a 2 seater or 5 seater with luggage (No 4 seater option required ). I know monocoque is better than ladder on frame in terms of handling, but in real terms, there are only 2 things that matter to us. Riding comfort and maneuverability. In the first, Safari is better and in the second Duster is superior. Secondly, I have not taken a TD of the 85 BHP Duster - the vehicle is not available. I am not going to book any vehicle without driving it. See, many people have the risk appetite to book a vehicle without "feeling" it. I don't. And I don't like wasting some money trying to book a vehicle and then cancelling it. And the dealership has not given me a timeframe when it will be available for TD, if at all.

Further clarifying our thoughts over the weekend, I guess at the moment we are a little cheesed off with Duster because we waited for the vehicle for almost a year. They then launch a vehicle without 4x4 option and at prices higher than European prices for lower specs (as I mentioned, an ex-colleague owns a Duster). I also got the feeling that they are acting a little haughty now with their booking levels (insignificant, but these things have an impact you know).

But keeping the softer aspects aside, I like the vehicle and probably would stretch to the 110 RXL prices of ~11 L.

In the meantime, with all the string pulling, TML has come back saying they are willing to customize a vehicle for us, provided we make full advance payment and give them 1.5 months lead time. We will need to talk with banks and see if that can be worked out. If this works, then we might have a 4x4 at ~11L and then we would just grab it.

Last edited by chinkara : 30th July 2012 at 21:32. Reason: Typos
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Old 30th July 2012, 21:54   #19
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

If you are getting a 4x4 lx from Tata, go for it.
The duster is much better in terms of handling and quality but I have seen well maintained 8 year old safaris. A close family friend has been a die hard Tata fan from the Sierra days and currently drives an Aria, he owned 2 Safari's in between all well run and in the 100,000km + range. All were niggle free, touch wood.
Yes you may face a few issues in the initial stages but once sorted, no other car will make you want to go on a drive more than a Safari. It munches miles like no other.
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Old 30th July 2012, 22:23   #20
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

Although personally I would not put my money on a Tata, provided I have other options, but in your case I think you should go with the Safari. Being on this forum you would have come across the various Safari threads and the niggles and problems being faced by the owners. At the same time there are many members who are happy to own it. So if after all that your heart still wants the Safari then I don't see any reason why not to go for it.

IMHO it doesn't make sense to wait for the Storme. You never know if it will be launched this year or the next. Also the initial batch of cars is bound to have some or the other problem which would only be rectified over a couple of years. So I would rather stay away.

The Duster does look like the perfect car and I would have bought it if I were in your shoes. To me it looks like the perfect vehicle for anyone not needing those extra seats in the back. Also the fit and finish just cannot be compared to the Safari. It would most likely serve you better over a period of 10 years with lesser number of days spent in the garage. But then from your posts its clearly evident that you are sold on the Safari and hence just go for it.

Edit: Do give considerate thought to GTO's post about the 4X4 drive vehicles. I don't think you really need a 4x4. The 2 incidents you described were very random ones and for such unforeseeable moments you cannot justify buying a 4x4. Be prepared to for a lesser FE and the potential for more niggles and maintenance costs over the years.

Last edited by drmohitg : 30th July 2012 at 22:26.
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Old 31st July 2012, 09:53   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinkara

In the meantime, with all the string pulling, TML has come back saying they are willing to customize a vehicle for us, provided we make full advance payment and give them 1.5 months lead time. We will need to talk with banks and see if that can be worked out. If this works, then we might have a 4x4 at ~11L and then we would just grab it.
I was told Safari 4x4 is available only on Vx other variants were discontinued, are they offering you Ex 4x4 or Lx4x4? Was this from the dealer or the TATA guys?
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Old 31st July 2012, 11:25   #22
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

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Originally Posted by chinkara View Post
Mayank, Devdath, I get your point about Indian vehicles and long term ownership. But I do not have any Japanese option, so it is immaterial. If Grand Vitara was 12 L I would have bought it by now. And I am reluctant to spend that kind of money on a second hand - in my mind, second hand belongs to 5-6 L range. Besides, many people seem to have 6-7 years of Safari ownership, some seem happy, some seem in tears. And I do know there was a quantum improvement in quality in 2008-09 (worked in TML before, you see, though not for them).
I dunno Chinkara, even though you say there was a quantum improvement in quality, the Safari's plastics are still a far far cry from what the competition has.

Also, any vehicle is ok till 4 years/the end of its extended warranty, however, the dance begins after that, and that is where the Japs and the Koreans score.

While it is easy peasy to maintain a 10 year M 800 and you see lots of them on the road as well in good condition, 10 year old Safaris/Scorpios etc are a very rare breed.
Why? Simply because they age fast, and most of all, manufacturers do not have small spares in stock (especially rubber and plastic parts) and the ASCs are least interested in servicing them as well.

Give this a deep thought before you sign the dotted line.
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Old 31st July 2012, 12:58   #23
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

Very good thread, come up at the right time for me.
I'm in the market for a change from the Safari, and will be following your thread closely.

At the moment, the Duster and XUV500 are the 2 choices I'm contemplating, but am cheesed off by the 6 month waiting period. No other SUV in the 12-14L range to consider.

The Nissan Sunny may be another alternative, but the looks put me off, and it is a boring car to drive. The clunky gearbox puts you off too.

What are the other options worth waiting for ?

- Tata Safari Storme
- Nissan's version of the Duster ?? Rumor heard from the salesman at the Nissan showroom. Expected in 3 mths. If this is true, I will put my money on it.
- A XUV500 W4 ?
- Mahindra / Ssangyong Korando - rumored to launch around Diwali
- Mahindra Xylo mini - Again around Diwali ?
- Ecosport will be as big as a hatchback inside.

Looks like waiting till September end is the only option right now!
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Old 31st July 2012, 13:14   #24
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Default Re: Duster vs other SUVs & MUVs

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinkara View Post
Now to the XUV. We were ok with the looks. Both of us felt it was not as good as the Safari look-wise, but it was quite ok. Driving pleasure was quite good. The engine was much more refined than the Safari. The gear was a little vague. More of a problem for me was the lack of an armrest which meant I could not find an ergonomic position for gear shifting during the 20 min test drive. But I hoped that would be sorted out later. What both of us felt, however, was that the ride was not as good as the Safari. I am not very keen on electronics, so wasn't very impressed with all that jing-bang. Value wise, it seemed a good deal. We decided to test out the suspension again when my parents would be here next.
Quote:
In the meantime, with all the string pulling, TML has come back saying they are willing to customize a vehicle for us, provided we make full advance payment and give them 1.5 months lead time. We will need to talk with banks and see if that can be worked out. If this works, then we might have a 4x4 at ~11L and then we would just grab it.
It is clearly evident that you are almost decided for the Safari 4x4. The Safari has become dated and may be stopped over a 10 year period, specially after the Strome is introduced. Just make sure that maintenance would not be too costly for the Safari over such a long time span. You may be in a position to obtain information with your TML connections.

However, personally I would suggest you do another TD of the XUV before taking a final decision. I personally felt the XUV was equally good, specially the handling was better than the Safari. The engine is much more refined and the mileage also is much better (IIRC).

Anyway, best of luck for your dream SUV.
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Old 31st July 2012, 13:41   #25
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Originally Posted by arvindmanju View Post
I was told Safari 4x4 is available only on Vx other variants were discontinued, are they offering you Ex 4x4 or Lx4x4? Was this from the dealer or the TATA guys?
4x4 is available on the GX/VX as a version. I am not sure but I think EX 4x4 is discontinued
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Old 31st July 2012, 13:49   #26
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4x4 is available on the GX/VX as a version. I am not sure but I think EX 4x4 is discontinued
The 4x4 is available ONLY in the top end VX now. No other version has the option of a Safari 4x4. A big mistake by TML when M&M has the 4x4 Scorpio in the LX variant.
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Old 31st July 2012, 14:22   #27
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The 4x4 is available ONLY in the top end VX now. No other version has the option of a Safari 4x4. A big mistake by TML when M&M has the 4x4 Scorpio in the LX variant.
Are you sure? I bought a GX last month and i was offered the latest 2012 May GX and GX 4X4.... Also the Safari website quotes in the specification page as EX 4x4 being available.
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Old 31st July 2012, 14:39   #28
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Are you sure? I bought a GX last month and i was offered the latest 2012 May GX and GX 4X4.... Also the Safari website quotes in the specification page as EX 4x4 being available.
Yup, info from Concorde, Aadya & the TML toll free number.
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Old 31st July 2012, 17:24   #29
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I dunno Chinkara, even though you say there was a quantum improvement in quality, the Safari's plastics are still a far far cry from what the competition has.

Also, any vehicle is ok till 4 years/the end of its extended warranty, however, the dance begins after that, and that is where the Japs and the Koreans score.

While it is easy peasy to maintain a 10 year M 800 and you see lots of them on the road as well in good condition, 10 year old Safaris/Scorpios etc are a very rare breed.
Why? Simply because they age fast, and most of all, manufacturers do not have small spares in stock (especially rubber and plastic parts) and the ASCs are least interested in servicing them as well.

Give this a deep thought before you sign the dotted line.
Do not disagree at all. Why do you thing I love my old Wagon R. In fact reliability is a major concern and not just of plastics. In fact, that is the major sticking point regarding Safari.
I am also clear that I need to find local mechanics after warranty period is over. (Which I am doing only now in Wagon R). Also, find the OE suppliers for spares. I recently had to change the switching module of my Wagon R. MASS MGP MRP 2200, Minda price 1100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
It is clearly evident that you are almost decided for the Safari 4x4.
Anyway, best of luck for your dream SUV.
Almost, but not quite. As mentioned, reliability is the sticking point. Now if financing generates problems, I will probably go back to the drawing board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
4x4 is available on the GX/VX as a version. I am not sure but I think EX 4x4 is discontinued
Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
The 4x4 is available ONLY in the top end VX now. No other version has the option of a Safari 4x4. A big mistake by TML when M&M has the 4x4 Scorpio in the LX variant.
No great connections yaar. Mostly pressure through dealer. I just checked that they manufacture 4x4 Ex in special orders and pushed.
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Old 31st July 2012, 17:28   #30
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Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Very good thread, come up at the right time for me.
I'm in the market for a change from the Safari, and will be following your thread closely.
OT:
Your Safari is pretty new, correct? How much has it done? Why the change?
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