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Ford EcoSport 408 76.55%
Renault Duster 125 23.45%
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Old 9th July 2013, 11:00   #196
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

Is it really worth to pay 2-3 lakhs for a car with a few millimeters more space here and there?Even with such a huge price difference you get an interior which looks and feels a decade old and unpremium.
Standing next to a Duster,will an ecosport look like a Maruti 800 next to an i20, No,It will not. The difference in outer dimensions are almost negligible visually, unless you have a measuring tape in your hand.
So I dont know how people see ecosport as "Tiny" and Duster as "Huge".Even comparing Ecosport to hatchbacks.
Now,park a Duster next to an XUV and see how tiny a Duster is.That is real size difference. Again, Duster sells at almost same price as that of an XUV.
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Old 9th July 2013, 12:14   #197
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by anish5225 View Post
Is it really worth to pay 2-3 lakhs for a car with a few millimeters more space here and there?Even with such a huge price difference you get an interior which looks and feels a decade old and unpremium.
Standing next to a Duster,will an ecosport look like a Maruti 800 next to an i20, No,It will not. The difference in outer dimensions are almost negligible visually, unless you have a measuring tape in your hand.
So I dont know how people see ecosport as "Tiny" and Duster as "Huge".Even comparing Ecosport to hatchbacks.
Now,park a Duster next to an XUV and see how tiny a Duster is.That is real size difference. Again, Duster sells at almost same price as that of an XUV.
I do not see Duster offering substantial space compared to Ecosport. The rear seats offers a little more space in Duster. I found Ecosport good enough to seat three people at rear. The leg space seems to be better in Ecosport.

I found the front seats of Ecosport better than Duster in terms of ergonomics, under thigh support and leg space, though it loses out to Duster marginally in terms of seat width .

The boot space is very good in Duster, but it is not very important for the small urban family which ventures out of city a few times in a year. The split seats of Ecosport provides more flexibility here.

Ecosport is better than Duster in terms of interiors and features. The price difference seals the deal in favor of Ecosport.

I do not agree with people comparing Ecosport to hatchbacks. I own a Getz and see a clear value proposition for a small family (usual urban family with two kids) in Ecosport with its space, interiors, ground clearance, features and practicality for city and highway use. A sub 4 meter car cannot be as spacious as a XUV500. The deteriorating condition of Bangalore roads and usual floods with rain make it even more tempting.
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Old 9th July 2013, 13:09   #198
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by anish5225 View Post
Is it really worth to pay 2-3 lakhs for a car with a few millimeters more space here and there?Even with such a huge price difference you get an interior which looks and feels a decade old and unpremium.
It all boils down to the individual choice and needs. For some the interiors make no difference. Neither do all the swanky features like voice guided stuff on the Ecosport. Otherwise the Innova would not have seen numbers like it does even when priced at a mind boggling 17-18L rupees. The marginal space you are talking about will come very handy when you have 3 adults sitting at the back on a decently long drive. Even in intra city drive they would be rubbing arms against eachother. The boot again is extremely small and impractical with the rear seat having a lot of incline making the usable space a lot lesser. So for a lot of customers after the initial charm of voice guided FM station change fades away, they might start missing the extra space.

Quote:
Now,park a Duster next to an XUV and see how tiny a Duster is.That is real size difference. Again, Duster sells at almost same price as that of an XUV.
Park a Ecosport next to a hatch and you will be surprised to see its dimensions. Don't expect much of that SUV respect on the roads that a lot Indian buyers desire when they opt for an SUVish car.

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The boot space is very good in Duster, but it is not very important for the small urban family which ventures out of city a few times in a year. The split seats of Ecosport provides more flexibility here.
Its not just highway drives. Even a trip to the Airport would prove to be a reason for worry. The Figo's boot looked more ergonomically practical to me even though capacity wise its slightly smaller. The angle the rear seats make in the boot makes the space less usable for large sized bags. With the seats split you lose out on seating capacity which again might not work out for many people. Afterall with split seats you can even put a lot of stuff in a hatch.

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The deteriorating condition of Bangalore roads and usual floods with rain make it even more tempting.
Now I have never seen waterlogged roads which cannot be managed by regular hatches and sedans. And Yes I stayed in Bangalore for 6 years and drove a small hatch - Santro. Same in Delhi. The increased GC is more of a psychological plus. Rarely you see water logged stretches in industrial areas where cars like the civic struggle. But hatchbacks can easily wade through them.

Right now the only thing in favour of Ecosport is the looks. Everyone in the showroom and while taking the TD were going crazy about the looks of the car which does indeed look different and chic. But as more numbers of car come on the road the novelty factor will die down. The price difference of 2-3 L depends upon the individual according to his needs. The Innova doesn't make any sense at 18L, the Fortuner at 27L, Altis at 17L, Swift at 8L. But still these cars sell. Moreover the 85PS variant of the Duster is bang in the Ecosport territory pricing wise. And this is the variant with the similar power output figures as the Ecosport. The 110 PS offers a lot more power and hence might justify the higher price tag for some people who rather buy a powerful car than compromise on some non essential features.

Last edited by drmohitg : 9th July 2013 at 13:19.
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Old 9th July 2013, 13:23   #199
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Now I have never seen waterlogged roads which cannot be managed by regular hatches and sedans. And Yes I stayed in Bangalore for 6 years and drove a small hatch - Santro. Same in Delhi. The increased GC is more of a psychological plus. Rarely you see water logged stretches in industrial areas where cars like the civic struggle. But hatchbacks can easily wade through them.
All the points you aptly put. I have some what similar views.

However apart from waterlogging, I think GC helps more for potholed roads. Agreed its a bit psychological too. Because in hatch all one may need to do is slow down and go over the pothole. Its this part which many dont like and hence prefer a high GC.
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Old 9th July 2013, 14:41   #200
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
All the points you aptly put. I have some what similar views.

However apart from waterlogging, I think GC helps more for potholed roads. Agreed its a bit psychological too. Because in hatch all one may need to do is slow down and go over the pothole. Its this part which many dont like and hence prefer a high GC.
Agreed. But going over those car breaking potholes without slowing down is even going to take its toll on the Ecosport which I presume is not exactly meant to be handled roughly like those ladder on frame vehicles. It might not show ina new car but overtime the car would show you the symptoms of abuse.
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Old 9th July 2013, 15:24   #201
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

There is suddenly a trend of Duster owners(or shall I say Fans) bashing the Eco Sport for what it is not, when compared to the Duster. I think this itself proves that Ford has hit the nail on its head rather perfectly.

The Ecosport official review has been there for a while now and no bashing was seen by Duster fans. Its only after the announcement of prices, the so called VFM duster, suddenly seems overpriced.

The way I see it is, what ever Renault tried to achieve with the Duster, Ford has done one step better. Renault wanted a car right in between the Hatch & SUV segment. But the Duster is a lot closer to the SUV pricing but is a lot less than a real SUV. On the other hand, the Ecosport is lot closer to the premium hatch pricing but a lot more than a regular Hatchback.

The Ecosport cannot be compared to the Duster alone because, Renault created an all new segment for the Duster, but what the Ecosport has done with its pricing is, take out a lot of segments head on.

So anybody who is thinking upwards of 6.5lacs OTR petrol or a 7+lacs diesel way up to the 13-14lac range is surely going to have the Ecosport as part of their list of options. The Duster is not going to be on so many shortlists surely.

Thus I am certain, the Ford has a clear winner on its hands.

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Last edited by moralfibre : 9th July 2013 at 16:01.
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Old 9th July 2013, 15:34   #202
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Now I have never seen waterlogged roads which cannot be managed by regular hatches and sedans. And Yes I stayed in Bangalore for 6 years and drove a small hatch - Santro. Same in Delhi. The increased GC is more of a psychological plus. Rarely you see water logged stretches in industrial areas where cars like the civic struggle. But hatchbacks can easily wade through them.
Hatches and sedans can manage most of the situations, but there are also rare situations when you end up in the cabin praying that water would not come in the vehicle or the engine would not stall. I will never forget an incident when water was seeping inside the cabin of my Santro with a few cars abandoned on the road. I was fortunate to pass the flooded route without stalling where as many others got stuck. This has happened to other people I know in Bangalore too. Getting the vehicle cleaned after water seepage is a major hassle and you cannot get the carpets back in the earlier state.

I also find SUVs more stable and convenient on bad roads, especially water logged pot holed roads in Bangalore after rains. I have extensively used Scorpio and Innova.

Last edited by PatienceWins : 9th July 2013 at 15:41.
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Old 9th July 2013, 16:08   #203
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
I was fortunate to pass the flooded route without stalling where as many others got stuck. This has happened to other people I know in Bangalore too. Getting the vehicle cleaned after water seepage is a major hassle and you cannot get the carpets back in the earlier state.
True. What you have described is very much possible but such areas would be very limited in number where water logging is so much that the water enters the car's cabin. Most such areas would also not figure out someone's daily drive routes too frequently. For someone who has to frequently go through such patches then ofcourse Ecosport is the car to go for at that price point.
But for the other thousands of customers who have ensured that car has got the 6 month waiting period in such a short span also frequent such patches on a daily basis? I don't think so. Its the same story with the Fortuner where most people do not even know basics of off roading but still buy the truck for its looks and the advertised go anywhere ability.
Hence my point that the higher GC has been a much over hyped point of discussion on the forum. Apart from the small group of people who actually wade through 3-4 ft of water regularly, the rest of them are actually compromising on driving pleasure of a sedan or the convenience of a hatch and trading this for the higher GC of the Ecosport.

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Originally Posted by swami.n View Post
There is suddenly a trend of Duster owners(or shall I say Fans) bashing the Eco Sport for what it is not, when compared to the Duster. I think this itself proves that Ford has hit the nail on its head rather perfectly.
There is suddenly a trend of Ecosport owners(or shall I say Fans) bashing the Duster for what it is not, when compared to the Ecosport. I think this itself proves that Renault has hit the nail on its head rather perfectly.
Can be read both ways right? So this cannot be and should not be the criterion for the judging the car's strengths and weakness.

Last edited by drmohitg : 9th July 2013 at 16:14. Reason: Added text
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Old 9th July 2013, 16:29   #204
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
It all boils down to the individual choice and needs.
Yes, I agree both has its own strengths and weaknesses and its virtually impossible to conclude one superior over the other and the debate will go on and on. But eventhough Duster is not a clear winner here, why should I pay 20-30% more for it when I have another product which almost matches it in most aspects and better it in many other aspects.
Why should a middleclass carbuyer spend about 30% more on a product which is not a clear winner over the alternatives? Who will want to give away ones hard earned money as easy profit for any carmaker.

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Moreover the 85PS variant of the Duster is bang in the Ecosport territory pricing wise.
I dont think so.I just had a look at the Ex-Delhi Prices for both.

Duster 85PS Base 873000
Ecosport 1.5D Base 669000

Price difference ~ 2 lakhs. If one is willing to pay 2 lakh more on the base Ecosport, he can upgrade to 1.5 D Titanium version of Ecosport. Compared to a base Duster,this version not just comes with the so called "unwanted and useless" wizards or gadgetry, but also with life saving features like ABS and Airbags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Otherwise the Innova would not have seen numbers like it does even when priced at a mind boggling 17-18L rupees.
In my opinion cars like innova and fortuner sell because they have very strong USPs which none of their competitors can match and they are clear winners in those aspects. For eg. Innova for the comfortable and composed ride quality and Fortuner for its road presence and appeal.
Duster too sold in very good numbers till now and only now that we have a competent alternative is that this debate itself originated :-) I feel if these Duster and Ecosport were priced similarly, definitely there would have been much more votes infavour of Duster as its not a bad vehicle at all. But for now, due to its competitive pricing, Ecosport looks VFM
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:05   #205
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
There is suddenly a trend of Ecosport owners(or shall I say Fans) bashing the Duster for what it is not, when compared to the Ecosport. I think this itself proves that Renault has hit the nail on its head rather perfectly.
Can be read both ways right? So this cannot be and should not be the criterion for the judging the car's strengths and weakness.
True. But if you did go through my 2nd line, that all this war of words started only after the Eco Sport pricing was announced, you would realize the underlying issue rather than a play of words.

Those who could have compromised the few millimeters more interior width and the few extra liters of boot in duster, but still had no other option before the EcoSport would now feel they have wasted 2-3 lacs of their hard earned money.

But the same cannot be said of the Ecosport's owners or even prospective owners because they have the duster as well to choose from. Now they can choose what ever they want to based on priorities.

If they provide the AWD and all the safety features(not just the electronic gimmicks) of the Ecosport Titanium in the Duster for 13lacs, then it would be more VFM than the Ecosport. But Renault would certainly price such a Duster in Innova category.

A lot of prospective duster buyers might now shift to the Ecosport, but the other way around may happen only on rare occasions. I for one would surely say the Duster doesn't warrant a 2-3lac premium over the Eco sport just for the size difference.

After having owned a Bolero, I would say it is still the best VFM utility vehicle available in India(bar refinement).
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:11   #206
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Post Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
True. What you have described is very much possible but such areas would be very limited in number where water logging is so much that the water enters the car's cabin. Most such areas would also not figure out someone's daily drive routes too frequently. For someone who has to frequently go through such patches then ofcourse Ecosport is the car to go for at that price point.
But for the other thousands of customers who have ensured that car has got the 6 month waiting period in such a short span also frequent such patches on a daily basis? I don't think so. Its the same story with the Fortuner where most people do not even know basics of off roading but still buy the truck for its looks and the advertised go anywhere ability.
Hence my point that the higher GC has been a much over hyped point of discussion on the forum. Apart from the small group of people who actually wade through 3-4 ft of water regularly, the rest of them are actually compromising on driving pleasure of a sedan or the convenience of a hatch and trading this for the higher GC of the Ecosport.



There is suddenly a trend of Ecosport owners(or shall I say Fans) bashing the Duster for what it is not, when compared to the Ecosport. I think this itself proves that Renault has hit the nail on its head rather perfectly.
Can be read both ways right? So this cannot be and should not be the criterion for the judging the car's strengths and weakness.
You say the car should be judged based on its strength and weaknesses but aren't doing that. You've also said a choice boils down to an individual's choice and needs, but then go on to claim what may be a useful feature for many is a hyped feature for you and state that only a small group of people may benefit from it.

All said and done, the customer votes with the wallet and we shall we which vehicle outperforms the other on the 'long term'. And i re-iterate my intial post on this thread, that the EcoSport is definitely more product for the money than the duster is, for the money being charged for it.

Forget everything. A 12.4 lakhs Duster doesn't even provide Airbags. And Duster owners/fans claim to call the EcoSport to be a fancy hatch. Personally, I'd be better off with a fancy hatch with all safety features in place than drive a pseudo-SUV imagining I'm driving something as big and sophisticated as a Land Rover, with just ABS in place.


Off topic: out of curiosity I stepped into the Renault Duster official review thread and on the most recent pages one can see posts where small issues and concerns are being discussed. So much for a better product.

Certainly Renault has hit the nail on the head. No prizes for guessing on whose. Just saying..
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:52   #207
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
You say the car should be judged based on its strength and weaknesses but aren't doing that. You've also said a choice boils down to an individual's choice and needs, but then go on to claim what may be a useful feature for many is a hyped feature for you and state that only a small group of people may benefit from it.

All said and done, the customer votes with the wallet and we shall we which vehicle outperforms the other on the 'long term'. And i re-iterate my intial post on this thread, that the EcoSport is definitely more product for the money than the duster is, for the money being charged for it.

Forget everything. A 12.4 lakhs Duster doesn't even provide Airbags. And Duster owners/fans claim to call the EcoSport to be a fancy hatch. Personally, I'd be better off with a fancy hatch with all safety features in place than drive a pseudo-SUV imagining I'm driving something as big and sophisticated as a Land Rover, with just ABS in place.


Off topic: out of curiosity I stepped into the Renault Duster official review thread and on the most recent pages one can see posts where small issues and concerns are being discussed. So much for a better product.

Certainly Renault has hit the nail on the head. No prizes for guessing on whose. Just saying..
You seem to have taken it binding upon yourself to defend each and every line written against ecospsort?

You have been a top contributor to this thread and almost all your posts are of similar vitriol nature.

You have all the right to express your views, but at the same time accept others views also openly and please accept the fact that we all are different human beings, hence what fits / suits you might not be suitable to someone else at all.

Just wanted to bring this point as you seem to have been motivated in doing this, by something more than what meets the eye.

Nonetheless, you can continue your tirade (including cutting this post to pieces)
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:58   #208
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by swami.n View Post
Those who could have compromised the few millimeters more interior width and the few extra liters of boot in duster, but still had no other option before the EcoSport would now feel they have wasted 2-3 lacs of their hard earned money.
Quote:
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You say the car should be judged based on its strength and weaknesses but aren't doing that.
Forget everything. A 12.4 lakhs Duster doesn't even provide Airbags. And Duster owners/fans claim to call the EcoSport to be a fancy hatch. Personally, I'd be better off with a fancy hatch with all safety features in place than drive a pseudo-SUV imagining I'm driving something as big and sophisticated as a Land Rover, with just ABS in place.
I am not saying that the Duster is the better vehicle or VFM vehicle. No ways. I was never a fan of the looks itself forget the car. And yes no airbags or basic features in a 12L Rs car just doesn't merit any excuse. Same case for that matter with the Innova which I always maintain is a highly Non-VFM vehicle. But right now I sincerely feel that the Ecosport is being overhyped on the Forum. It really doesn't offer you anything that different apart from higher GC. Similar features can be also found on the hatches and Sedans in the same price bracket. So only time can tell if the car really sells. Right now its just the new car and a totally different one at that being launched effect.
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Old 9th July 2013, 18:27   #209
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Originally Posted by engrohit View Post

You seem to have taken it binding upon yourself to defend each and every line written against ecospsort?

You have been a top contributor to this thread and almost all your posts are of similar vitriol nature.

You have all the right to express your views, but at the same time accept others views also openly and please accept the fact that we all are different human beings, hence what fits / suits you might not be suitable to someone else at all.

Just wanted to bring this point as you seem to have been motivated in doing this, by something more than what meets the eye.

Nonetheless, you can continue your tirade (including cutting this post to pieces)
That I shouldn't respond to a post where the statements are stacked against the EcoSport without fair basis, doesn't make sense to me? Why, should I only do so when I'm an owner or have ulterior motives to defend the product? Compelled to say that's harbouring a very silly assumption and/or thinking.

What you say about choices is right. Only would have appreciated it more if you would have also said it as response to posts where duster owner(s)/fans were making generalised statements for other vehicle owners, including those considering the EcoSport.

You say my posts are vitriolistic? I'll accept if you can show me 1 post where I've dissected the Duster on my own without responding to an unfair post against the EcoSport or launched a personal attack on someone? You may want to consider choosing the words you use on a public forum with some discretion, pal.

About what's more than meets anyone's eyes is not my problem. Perceptions, like opinions, also vary and are very individualistic.
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Old 9th July 2013, 18:37   #210
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport versus Renault Duster

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Apart from the small group of people who actually wade through 3-4 ft of water regularly, the rest of them are actually compromising on driving pleasure of a sedan or the convenience of a hatch and trading this for the higher GC of the Ecosport.
Ecosport is as convenient as a hatch in city as it is a sub 4m vehicle. It is very good for city and decent enough for long highway drives. A practical vehicle for people who cannot afford to have multiple vehicles.

I find that GC is very useful in a city like Bangalore (I do not live in a remote place) with the current state of road. Wading through water is not the only advantage. It is a common sight to see hatches and sedans stuck in the slush of the muddy service road next to outer ring road (IT hub). A vehicle with a good GC is very useful here.

I agree that quite a lot of people go for SUV just to project a macho image. Duster is also applicable for those class of people. It is not fair to call Ecosport a grown up hatch and Duster a proper Crossover. Both of them are good crossovers.
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