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Old 7th September 2013, 10:25   #16
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

There are a decent numbers of used Fortuners on sale these days. Its always best that you buy one that has been driven and not abused. We have two Fortuners in our family, older one has clocked around 1.15 L + kms and is still in a mint condition. I also had a Safari which I had driven for 30k+ kms and apart from the small niggles, there weren't any major issues. 2.2 is indeed the best engine Safari has got till date.

Second row comfort is better in a Safari and there are no second thoughts over this. Build quality of a Fortuner is far better in every possible way.
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Old 7th September 2013, 13:17   #17
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Other than the above points, in incase you are only considering the storme and the fortuner, I would suggest the fortuner due to better reliability than the storme. This is purely based on the facts that Toyota has a more robust manufacturing system and that the Hiluxes abroad have lasted the test of time by completing lakhs of kms.
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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Of the above mentioned two vehicles, a new Storme 4WD or an used Fortuner, which one fits more VFM in terms of technicalities, capabilities and maintenance.

Both will be used for same roles in terms of family touring vehicle, visits to hill stations and for soft OTRs. Both will be used a 5 seater vehicle.

thanks in advance.

PaRm.
The opening post was about VFM in terms of technicalities, capabilities and maintenance between the Storme and the Fortuner. Well I was expecting some comments from the members about the technical aspects and the capabilities of the two vehicles, but found that most members making recommendations based on reliability.
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Old 7th September 2013, 14:55   #18
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

What are the end results of reliability? Parts are more durable. They last longer. What happens when they are durable and last longer? One does not have to pay to get them replaced often. What does that mean? More value for your money. Ramp break over angles and a few mm of ground clearance difference are seldom considered in case of a family tourer and frankly when vehicles like Innovas and taveras can do the leh circuit over and over as taxis there should hardly be any concern about these two as tourers all over the country. Technicalities of ride etc and more or less the same. both see saw when new and tatas are famous for weak suspensions over a few years. personal experience on that one. and with more than one tata vehicle.
engine power is good for cruising at 100-120 kmph for both. more is available on the fortuner but its useless as its scary above those speeds.
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Old 7th September 2013, 15:19   #19
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post

Of the above mentioned two vehicles, a new Storme 4WD or an used Fortuner, which one fits more VFM in terms of technicalities, capabilities and maintenance.

Both will be used for same roles in terms of family touring vehicle, visits to hill stations and for soft OTRs. Both will be used a 5 seater vehicle.

thanks in advance.

PaRm.

PaRm,

I have been in a similar dilemma for some time now. I would suggest that you stay away from any Pre - Owned Fortuner unless it is coming from a known source and the history of the vehicle is both accurate and well documented.


Today with a Safari Storme, you can get 4 years warranty and an annual maintenance contract for your peace of mind. You can always sort out the minor rattles on your own, if you are so inclined. So this is an option that can be considered. As far as the two cars are concerned.


1) Both have great road presence, Fortuner is probably a bit more though

2) The Fortuner is not the most comfortable of cars, the middle row center seat occupant in particular is going to be very uncomfortable owing to the strange arm rest. The Storme is far more comfortable for 5 people, but the seatback is extremely upright.

3) The Fortuner is a better off-roader, but, unless you plan on taking it off the beaten track, the Safari is more than capable of getting you out of any tricky situations you face. So given your requirements, this consideration can be eliminated

4) If you find a well maintained Fortuner, it will be as cheap as most Marutis to run. If something goes wrong, it wont cost a small fortune to fix. A new Safari, with an annual maintenance contract will also not cost much by way of maintenance. So really it all boils down to whether or not you can find a well maintained Fortuner.

We have not made our decision yet, some members in my family are against the Storme. We do not find a new Fortuner worth the 30 lacs it costs in Bangalore. We much prefer the Pajero Sport, but its body roll is making us think about it. We are also considering a pre-owned from a segment above.
I have seen some pre-owned Fortuners, but again they are not worth the asking price they seem to command. I have seen a car I can guarantee had done over 100,000 KM, but the dealer had tweaked it down to 50K. So tread very cautiously as far pre-owned Fortuners are concerned.

My suggestion is that if you need a car to seat 5 people in comfort, look to other options. The Fortuner will not satisfy that. The Safari will. Another thing to be considered, if you do not have a mostly adult family, then the Yeti is a great option.
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Old 7th September 2013, 22:52   #20
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

Thanks once again for your valuable inputs regarding my request to decide between the Storme 4WD and used Fortuner.

As I mentioned, I have a Hilux as my daily drive in Dubai, and im used to its stiff ride quality, and im sure Fortuner will have a better ride compared to the hilux.

Also I have experienced the durability and reliability of the hilux, which I take every where, into the wadis or desert dunes, over the footpaths etc.

It has taken every abuse and still is a trusted companion for me. This is what pulling me towards the used Fortuner in India.

Mitsubishi Pajero/Sports is out of question as one is discontinued and the PS has not entrenched itself with in India.

From Storme, I have high expectations as its on a new platform and many mechanicals are new compared to the Dicor, but the body design since 1998 has not changed much and the TATA A.S.S. has not installed much confidence in FIAT, let alone myself!

Change of base for BD sir will sure make changes in the TATA product line, and till that happens we will keep getting the refreshed products rather than all new models.

I haven't come across much complaints against the Fortuner or its A.S.S. compared to TATA. This factor does tilt the decision towards Toyota.
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Old 8th September 2013, 02:30   #21
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

On an overall basis, it would be very hard to overlook the Fortuner. It comes with bullet-proof reliability, a peaceful ownership experience and the respect it commands on Indian roads. However, you must consider the following things too:

1. Good Fortuners seldom go for 15 lakhs. Its a very popular vehicle and you have to pay extra for it.
2. As good as it gets, the Fortuner is outclassed in overall comfort levels by the Storme. The TATA offers a better ride quality and is quite settled on bad roads.
3. With a second hand vehicle, an element of doubt regarding it's capabilities will always remain at the back of your mind.

If you truly ask me, considering your requirements and your Hilux ownership experience, I would suggest you make the stretch and get yourself a new Fortuner. I know it costs a lot but trust me, its worth it. If your budget is really tight with no scope for expansion, get a new Storme. Things have improved quite a bit at the TATA camp and though it is no where near Toyota, the situation is not as bad as it was before.

PS: A fellow Team-BHPian, Fortuner71, had the same requirements as yours and finally went in for the new Storme. You might want to go through his ownership thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ly-storme.html (Windy, Cloudy & Finally a Storme)
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Old 8th September 2013, 10:08   #22
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

If you are not using external finance, I would say go for the Fortuner, but if there is a loan being taken then the Storme. A new car to ages quite soon in terms of appearance.

Incase you do get the Fortuner do remember to factor in the Rs. 45,000 Brake kit upgrade.

Fortuner will in my view be more reliable. but here am assuming that you will get hold of the Fortuner for about 12 to a max of 14L. I do not agree with the 15L price point for a 3 year old one.

At a price higher than 16-17L it must be the new shape and those are not likely to be available right now.

Yep Fortuner holds it's price quite well, but there is always a correct price and for a 3-4 year old model 12-13 is the max that I would pay. The market overrates a preowned one, especially inspite of a shape change (refresh).
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Old 8th September 2013, 10:22   #23
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
but there is always a correct price and for a 3-4 year old model 12-13 is the max that I would pay. The market overrates a preowned one, especially inspite of a shape change (refresh).
Very optimistic to expect in 12-13 range. Correct price is what the owners are ready to let it go at. Check what owners are quoting on carwale. You can even factor in 15-20% correction after negotiation etc.
http://www.carwale.com/used/toyota-f...-in-bangalore/
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Old 8th September 2013, 10:42   #24
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Very optimistic to expect in 12-13 range. Correct price is what the owners are ready to let it go at. Check what owners are quoting on carwale. You can even factor in 15-20% correction after negotiation etc.
http://www.carwale.com/used/toyota-f...-in-bangalore/
Actually in Mumbai did get one for 12L and one for 13L about a month back. But was looking for AT only so did not consider further. Did not check them out for the condition.

I do agree that people do not list at below 15L easily but there is life and sellers beyond Carwale. Similarly people do not quote below about 11.5-12L for the Pajero normally but there were SFX from 2009 out in the market for about 9L after negotiation. One TBHPian infact is actively checking out options (deciding) between a 9L Pajero SFX and 12L Fortuner, and has been able to shortlist such vehicles that are in a condition acceptable to him.

Yep the market decides the price but the sellers have to sell at the price at which buyers buy. I have gone throught this grind recently. It is not a sellers market even for the Fortuner. The Presently the Buyers are few and sellers many for all vehicles (relatively lesser numbers for the Fortuner), though dealers and carwale would love to give a different view even in this poor market condition.

I recently sold a vehicle after 3 months of effort at about 15% lesser that the carwale rated valuation though it was a diesel with everything working and in superb condition. The offers that I received for the first month were closer to 50% off the carwale rated value. I think the ratings are high for the current market condition especially for the higher end vehicles.

Last edited by ACM : 8th September 2013 at 10:57.
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Old 8th September 2013, 22:02   #25
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
On an overall basis, it would be very hard to overlook the Fortuner. It comes with bullet-proof reliability, a peaceful ownership experience and the respect it commands on Indian roads. However, you must consider the following things too:

1. Good Fortuners seldom go for 15 lakhs. Its a very popular vehicle and you have to pay extra for it.
2. As good as it gets, the Fortuner is outclassed in overall comfort levels by the Storme. The TATA offers a better ride quality and is quite settled on bad roads.
3. With a second hand vehicle, an element of doubt regarding it's capabilities will always remain at the back of your mind.

If you truly ask me, considering your requirements and your Hilux ownership experience, I would suggest you make the stretch and get yourself a new Fortuner. I know it costs a lot but trust me, its worth it. If your budget is really tight with no scope for expansion, get a new Storme. Things have improved quite a bit at the TATA camp and though it is no where near Toyota, the situation is not as bad as it was before.

PS: A fellow Team-BHPian, Fortuner71, had the same requirements as yours and finally went in for the new Storme. You might want to go through his ownership thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ly-storme.html (Windy, Cloudy & Finally a Storme)
The reliability makes me stick to the Fortuner.

Yes, TATA products are showing improvements day by day and model by model, but I don't want to be a test driver for TATA!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
If you are not using external finance, I would say go for the Fortuner, but if there is a loan being taken then the Storme. A new car to ages quite soon in terms of appearance.

Incase you do get the Fortuner do remember to factor in the Rs. 45,000 Brake kit upgrade.

Fortuner will in my view be more reliable. but here am assuming that you will get hold of the Fortuner for about 12 to a max of 14L. I do not agree with the 15L price point for a 3 year old one.

At a price higher than 16-17L it must be the new shape and those are not likely to be available right now.

Yep Fortuner holds it's price quite well, but there is always a correct price and for a 3-4 year old model 12-13 is the max that I would pay. The market overrates a preowned one, especially inspite of a shape change (refresh).
I agree with the 12-14 Lakh bracket for a decent used Fortuner.

I don't fancy the new face lift (current model) of Fortuner, its got a big smile its face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Actually in Mumbai did get one for 12L and one for 13L about a month back. But was looking for AT only so did not consider further. Did not check them out for the condition.

I do agree that people do not list at below 15L easily but there is life and sellers beyond Carwale. Similarly people do not quote below about 11.5-12L for the Pajero normally but there were SFX from 2009 out in the market for about 9L after negotiation. One TBHPian infact is actively checking out options (deciding) between a 9L Pajero SFX and 12L Fortuner, and has been able to shortlist such vehicles that are in a condition acceptable to him.

Yep the market decides the price but the sellers have to sell at the price at which buyers buy. I have gone throught this grind recently. It is not a sellers market even for the Fortuner. The Presently the Buyers are few and sellers many for all vehicles (relatively lesser numbers for the Fortuner), though dealers and carwale would love to give a different view even in this poor market condition.

I recently sold a vehicle after 3 months of effort at about 15% lesser that the carwale rated valuation though it was a diesel with everything working and in superb condition. The offers that I received for the first month were closer to 50% off the carwale rated value. I think the ratings are high for the current market condition especially for the higher end vehicles.
Pajero was on the list for its locking diff feature, but Mitsubishi doesn't evoke the same trust factor as the Toyota name does.

Thanks again for your inputs.
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Old 9th September 2013, 00:37   #26
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Thanks for your inputs, friends.

By the way, I have a Toyota Hilux as my daily drive in Dubai. Its a 2.7 ltr Petrol Engine 4WD. I have done 200,000+ KMS on it since I got it in 2010.

So, I'm well aware of the drive of the Fortuner, but the heavier 3.0 ltr diesel engine will certainly make a difference to the drive.

Even the petrol 2.7 ltr Fortuner doesn't come with all four discs, so the braking is an issue in the older models of Fortuner.

One more thing guys, the economic down turn in India, will it effect the 2nd hand car market? my guess is that the price of the used vehicles will go up!

regards,

PaRm.
I am guessing here and could be very wrong, so please do your research.

The pain really has not set in yet. The amount of leverage going around is tremendous.

Allow me to cite an example even if it sounds like a digression. I was talking to my tenant about the "builders" in Delhi since he is acquainted with some people in the trade. There are defaults happening all over the place on unsecured borrowings. As yet they are paying up the instalments on their rides, trying to avoid defaulting on their bank repayments but the scenario is worsening.

This is just one sector. The pain is going to spread. So the market for used high end rides will soften, in all likelihood.
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Old 9th September 2013, 12:12   #27
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

A point to see considering you need a 4x4 and that you are more inclined to a Fortuner, wait for some time as the new facelift ones come in your range because after the 4x2 started coming in the sale of 4x2 is more and also these are the ones which do more mileage [observed that high mileage customers want a 4x2 and not a 4x4], so finding a 4x4 post 2010-11 which will be better maintained is easier. But if you cannot wait and like the pre-facelift fortuner, you have to work hard to get a good example in your price range, all in all I suggest you wait for about 6 months to get a VFM deal. I will not suggest you buy a new Storm unless you plan to keep it for at least 5-7 years to negate the high depreciation it suffers. Moreover, the all new replacement for Storm will come in some time 2014-15. Resale of TFort is more consistent comparatively. TFort will cost you much less to maintain any day.

Otherwise since it will be used only as a 5 seater and if you could wait, it is un-officially confirmed that the Terrano will come with a 4WD in 2014, Duster may follow too. XTrail will be manufactured in CKD by end 2013 but may not come below 25 L, also there are strong chances that a new SUV between Terrano and XTrail will be launched by Nissan in 2014, Hyundai is preparing a Duster competitor for 2014. All this will also mean better VFM Fortuners available in used market in 2014.
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Old 9th September 2013, 13:53   #28
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Even the petrol 2.7 ltr Fortuner doesn't come with all four discs, so the braking is an issue in the older models of Fortuner.


PaRm.
I would get the Storme because it is a much larger leap ahead compared to the old Safari than what it shows itself to be. Also I would be wary of any Fortuners I see at 15 lakhs

Kinda Off Topic I know, but I was once glancing at a Torque Blue top end Swift a lane down where I was sitting in traffic because that was the car I would have had had it not been for the Kizashi and the strong case it made (odd sounding yes and that's a long story) suddenly I noticed something was off about the rear wheels. Everything on the car seemed stock then it struck me, hey! he had discs on his rear wheels!! So is it possible to install discs on the rear wheels of a car which comes equipped with drums? If so, what about things like the abs and ebd systems can they be calibrated to run flawlessly?
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Old 9th September 2013, 13:59   #29
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

To me the Fortuner makes more sense for the precise reason that I hate going to After sales for small niggles every now and then. With Tata it will always be something or the other and is at best a gamble.
Having said that its become extremely difficult to find a sparingly used Fortuner. I am rather surprised because I remember at the time of its launch, I used to come across many folks who were buying it out of the bling factor and I was sure that in sometime they will find the vehcile too gigantic for there usage and would look to sell it off. But I have been proven wrong.
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Old 9th September 2013, 14:08   #30
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Default Re: New Safari Storme 4WD or Used Fortuner

My personal opinion, a used Toyota is definitely better and reliable than a new Tata

If the Fortuner is in good condition, go for the Fortuner. You will not regret...for the Tata Safari Storme is still a Tata car.

Last edited by GTO : 9th September 2013 at 15:56. Reason: PM coming up
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