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Old 27th November 2013, 22:47   #31
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

mk 2 Sumo Grande was introduced somewhere in mid 2009 i think.
Apart from the badging the RC book mentions it and the steering wheel and interiors are much superior to the earlier model.
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Old 28th November 2013, 10:43   #32
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

Guys, we have almost finalized on a used Sumo Grande.

I have been looking around for used Boleros and Sumo Victa/Gold for a while. Firstly, all such cars have run close to a Lakh kms and are very very shabbily maintained. I drove a Sumo Victa recently and the clutch was gone, brakes were gone, the whole bonnet was leaking from various places and I guess even the turbo was kaput. Mostly all Sumos are in such conditions.

I did not test drive a Bolero yet. Reason is that the asking price even for highly driven Boleros are about a 1.5 to 2 Lacs more than a similar Sumo grande.

Now my calculation is - I will be keeping the car for 4 years. Even if the maintenance cost of the Grande is about 25k/year more than the Bolero, it is still okay as I end up spending 1 Lac more on the Sumo in 4 years. But I am saving about 2 Lacs initially while buying the car, which is also eliminate the difference in the resale value. The interest on those 2 Lacs in 4 years will cover up the difference in the fuel expenses.

Secondly, most of the Grandes are of individuals/private owned and hence have been maintained well, compared to the company driven and abused Sumos and Boleros. I have seen good examples of Sumo Grandes going for as low as 3-3.5 Lacs whereas a similar Bolero commands 5 Lacs. I totaly agree with everyone here that the Sumo and Bolero are the most ideal vehicles for my usage. If I was buying a new car, maybe I would not have given other cars a second look, but the scenario in the used car market is forcing me to look for such options.

Now, I am just hoping the infamous 2.2 Dicor engine just not cause any major issues. By the way, most of the Grandes are MK I and not MK II. Apart from the improvements in ride and quality, are there are reliability concerns in MK I?

Right now, we want the cheapest option available and that is the Grande. I hope this wont turn out to be a bad decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrakamat View Post
BAD POINTS...
1.Low resale value but then your initial cost too is low.
2.2.2 dicor engine timing belt issues but then you should change the belt immediately on buying the vehicle for peace of mind.
Only thing to keep in mind is to buy the Mark 2 model as it comes with much better interiors and has better FE than the mk1.
Any other comon/recurring issues in the Grande MK I except timing belt?

Last edited by raj_5004 : 28th November 2013 at 10:49.
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Old 28th November 2013, 14:32   #33
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

In the almost two years of ownership the only major problem I encountered was the breaking of timing belt at 40k kms.
But that was more due to ignorance of the fact on my part as well as the SA at TASS that it had to be changed at the end of two years .
Just before the Leh trip i changed the break pads and due to some wiring issues with the speed sensor i had to replace it.
Apart from this the regular oil change is at 7000km oil, oilfilter and air filter costs rs 3000.i usec mobil semi synthetic.
To date after purchase at odo reading of 25k kms i have used her for around 30k kms in last 2 years and have had no major issues at all .
Memorable journeys include Mumbai Leh,Mumbai Goa multiple times ,Rajmachi soft roading and Mumbai Bangalore ...all done without a single breakdown.
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Old 28th November 2013, 14:34   #34
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

Hi Raj,
I own a Grande MKII. Took delivery in 2010 Jan and mine was the first delivery of the new model MKII by Concorde Chennai. It has done more than 76K Kms as of now and I faced only the following issues:
  1. Failed Relay in the air conditioner
  2. Wiper motor faliure
  3. Body Control Module failure.

The last one was a major since it immobilized the engine.
Other than this I am very happy with the vehicle. Till date I have no rattles. Engine is very good. The space is fantastic in the front and middle rows. And third row is fine for any average person. I was toying with the idea of changing the car then I decided against it since it has been running well now.
Will use it for another couple of years...
I am sure you will enjoy the vehicle
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Old 28th November 2013, 18:34   #35
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrakamat View Post
In the almost two years of ownership the only major problem I encountered was the breaking of timing belt at 40k kms.
....................
Memorable journeys include Mumbai Leh,Mumbai Goa multiple times ,Rajmachi soft roading and Mumbai Bangalore ...all done without a single breakdown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arulpeem View Post
Hi Raj,
I own a Grande MKII. Took delivery in 2010 Jan and mine was the first delivery of the new model MKII by Concorde Chennai. It has done more than 76K Kms as of now and I faced only the following issues:
  1. Failed Relay in the air conditioner
  2. Wiper motor faliure
  3. Body Control Module failure.
..........
Will use it for another couple of years...
I am sure you will enjoy the vehicle
Thanks, good to know that the Grande is decently reliable.

In our operating conditions, small squeaks and noises will be overlooked. The only concern is that the vehicle should be rugged enough to operate in those conditions without breaking down. And I guess the Grande can withstand abuse.
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Old 29th November 2013, 21:37   #36
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Thanks, good to know that the Grande is decently reliable.

In our operating conditions, small squeaks and noises will be overlooked. The only concern is that the vehicle should be rugged enough to operate in those conditions without breaking down. And I guess the Grande can withstand abuse.
If 2.2 Dicor was having problems, but I would still say that they proved the 2.2 Dicor first and then later moved on to prove the 1.4 Dicor of Indica/Indigo which took a lot of time and was launched as CR4. But the first success of proving DICOR technology was with 2.2 DICOR so logically speaking If you are able to get a MK II you are getting a vehicle with a proven engine with the Beta testing complete!
Normally TATA has a habit of removing a lot of failures whenever they change the badging someyears later. So go for a MKII if you get one.And change the timing belt and check tension as soon as you buy one.

Rest I feel TATA makes reasonably reliable vehicles from the main mechanical parts perspective. Its the supplier parts like the Electricals which are not reliable. But still nothing to complain if you are getting a saving of 1.5 to 2 lakhs. Rebuilding a Grande engine should not cost you more than 50-60K in the worst case.

The underpinnings and suspension are robust (already proven in Sumo) and sheetmetal used is of good quality.

Comfort, space, features, second row of AC with cheap spares what more you want!
I did rather go for such a vehicle than a high mileage abused Bolero with no comfort, horrible ergonomics, featureless and cramped.
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Old 29th November 2013, 22:39   #37
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Thanks, good to know that the Grande is decently reliable.

In our operating conditions, small squeaks and noises will be overlooked. The only concern is that the vehicle should be rugged enough to operate in those conditions without breaking down. And I guess the Grande can withstand abuse.
Mate, one of the two experiences you quoted had a snapped timing belt. you are better off with a bolero paying a little more and should something go wrong with it, you can do a temporary fix and you will have a lot of takers for it. I cannot say the same for Sumo Grande. Since you are looking at UV in used market, chances of things going wrong could be high. Take a calculated risk for the number of years you are going to own it.
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Old 29th November 2013, 23:31   #38
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

I would say Grande. It is very under-rated vehicle. Travelled in it once and found it to be very good. Engine had tremendous traction. It was just flying. I think you should go for it.

We have sheep mentality in India. Most people parrot same lines they heard somewhere without verifying facts. I am sick and tired of hearing about Toyota's reliability and lack of Tata's. People put Toyota at North pole and Tata at south pole. But trust me Tata have improved a lot and are not as bad any more. And this Toyota thing is highly over-rated. I have seen some Innovas giving headaches to their owners. Thanks to this skewed perceptions, you will get a 2009 Grande for 3-4 lakhs whereas a 2009 Innova owner will ask for moon. I have seen an idiot in my town who wants to sell his battered 2007 Innova for 10 lakhs. I have words for him that cannot be printed here.
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Old 30th November 2013, 20:12   #39
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

A sudden road block for the Grande -

I spoke to a guy who works in the same industrial plant and has a Grande. He advised me to stay against it. According to him, Grande is not suitable for those conditions and the car is giving a lot of issues compared to a Bolero or Sumo. Also, spares for the Grande are not easily available in Raigad. He has to come to Mumbai every time something happens.

Considering this as a one off case, I spoke to another person who rents cars to clients withing the site. He also advised me against the Grande as he had two of them and both were prone to niggles and issues. I got the same reply - buy a Bolero or Sumo.

Both guys unanimously said - pay a premium for a Bolero, it is worth it.

Damn, I was so close to picking a good Grande, a car which I though is good value for money. Now I am re-thinking.
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Old 30th November 2013, 22:29   #40
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned SUV

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Go for the Force Cruiser/Toofan/Gama... ,whatever you think will suit you best..
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Okay. I will consider the Force vehicles too.
I agree with roy_libran. These vehicles are very popular in the hinterland of Maharashtra as local taxis, all due to their solid, reliable and cheap to maintain nature. The only challenge for you will be to find one which hasn't been used as a taxi.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 3rd December 2013, 15:30   #41
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
1) Should be cheap
2) Should have next to negligible maintenance/spares should not be expensive
3) Should be reliable and rugged, should be able to withstand abuse
4) FE should be decent
5) Should have A/C and Power steering!
6) Good ground clearance
Any inputs will be highly appreciated.
For your requirement, Sumo is the best suitable vehicle. I am telling this from my own experience. We had Sumo in my family for similar use and it did the same perfectly. Its a very good vehicle for bad, broken roads due to its high ground clearance. Also it has very good space inside. Maintenance costs are also within limits. Load carrying capacity of Sumo is also very good. It can carry lots of load without any issue. You can get a used Sumo well within your budget.
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Old 3rd December 2013, 16:33   #42
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned SUV

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Okay. I will consider the Force vehicles too.
There is good used Gurkha by BHPian in classified section. The car is in Chandigarh though.
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Old 3rd December 2013, 16:47   #43
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There is good used Gurkha by BHPian in classified section. The car is in Chandigarh though.
Gurkha is NOT an ideal people mover. Getting in and out of the three door vehicle is not the easiest of tasks. Plus, the Gurkha has a lot of tech. that makes it a lot more expensive to acquire, drive and maintain, as compared to a regular Trax. However, the vehicle can certainly take a huge amount of abuse and offers reasonable comfort, all attributes that can also be found in the Gama. Gama would be a good buy if you can locate one.
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Old 4th December 2013, 19:39   #44
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

You did not mention how many seats you need. Did you consider the Thar DI- search for a pre-owned one. It should fit your bill. Something that is stock and not modded in any way.
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Old 14th December 2013, 18:03   #45
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Default Re: Cheap & rugged Pre-owned Utility Vehicle

Based on inputs from everyone, I am still searching for a good used Bolero or Sumo.

I am avoiding vehicles used by companies, call centres, etc. as almost all of them are heavily abused. Private owned Sumos are literally non-existent. Luckily, I found a few good Boleros but came back disappointed after a test drive.

I have three additional queries now -

1) Is it okay to go for a CRDe engine Bolero (Storm)?
2) What about the Xylo?
3) Finally, what about the mDi engine Xylo? (D2 or D4 variants)
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