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Old 5th July 2014, 01:52   #46
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
You find Innova to be a proper 7-seater? Well, what can I say? I do not at all find Innova's last row aceptable and just see 3 posts after my post who agreed with me. May be you are very slightly built and can fit in there. I, at even a short height of 5'7" and slim-built, cannot. So, just as you are entitled to call Mobilio not a 7-seater, I am entitled to call Innova not a proper 7-seater. I hope that clears.
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Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
Hi all,

Interesting discussion.
My Humble Opinion: Most of MUV's (Innova, Ertiga, Xylo, Scorpio, Mobile) are frankly not "True 7-Seater". What i mean "True" is traveling in comfort without causing inconvenience to passengers.

If you look for "True 7-Seater". Then i think Perfectly Nissan Evalia /AL Style fills the list in Personal Transportation. The problem is Image perception that these vehicles tend to have in our Minds. They are Considered as "VANs". Even-though, they fit the requirement of "True 7-Seater".

But Most of us consider Evalia/Style too commercial for personal vehicle, when shopping for 7-Seater look for chic-style, useless features like alloy wheels, fog lamps. But Tend to forget the difference between "Practical Vs Brochure Specs".
To be a bit blunt I think you guys have not used the Innova much and hence got the seat setting all wrong. If you do not slide back the seat backrest, pull up the headrest and slide the middle row forward, the last row can be difficult. But it transforms if you do all this, w/o any pain for the middle row.

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Innova and Xylo are Ladder Frame Chassis based vehicles, using solid axles at rear(although with shorter travel range and stiffer springs in case of Innova, compared to Fortuner), which compromise Dynamics and Ride comfort. No matter which of these Vehicles you buy, the ride comfort on the row of seats behind the rear axle is going to be compromised with excessive bounce.

For all these 7 seater vehicles designed to accommodate 7 passengers are more likely to have compromised Suspension setup, to keep the vehicle comfortable all across the load range which can vary from 1 passenger to 7 Passengers and their Luggage. Examples: Ertiga with full load starts to bottom out(as in suspension running out of travel, hitting bump stops, not referred to scraping here), XUV-500's Ride gets better with load..
Innova always has a bit of a firm ride, whether middle row or last row but frankly not much to choose between the two. The ride improves with speed. But I personally find the last row of Fortuner almost on the floor and bit difficult to manage. Are you saying the Fortuner - known for bouncy/unsettled ride has with an "on the floor" last row is better in terms of posture / ride comfort compared to Innova?

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Originally Posted by damager21 View Post
Dude I am not disputing whether a car with 7 seats should be called a 7-seater or not. But when you are promoting it in your Ad, it better be a USP of your product. In this case, I don't see being 7 seater a USP for Mobilio and hence I feel it is slightly misleading. I myself sat on the 3rd bench in the display vehicle in Mumbai and found it uncomfortable. Guess everyone does that.

I agree with Vidyut, the perception will vary. For me, I found 3rd bench of Innova to be comfortable and I believe it is a proper 7-seater.
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I sat in an Innova 3rd row for 350kms from Jaipur to Salasar along with my sister. We got the captain seat version so only 2 in the middle and 2 of us in the 3rd row.

It wasn't bad and I was actually sleep in peace. Mind you I am 6 feet and not slim by a long shot. So it depends from person to person which is absolutely fine.
I agree with Vid6639 and damager21. I own an Innova (Vx-8 seater with bench in the middle row) and have done 84k joy filled kms with it. In fact one of the triggers for buying an Innova was the comfortable 2 hours I spent in the last row in an Avis Innova Taxi in bangalore in 2007.

. In most of the Innova models, the middle row slides. If you want to stetch your legs completely you will get 2-3 feet+ of legroom in the middle row, the last row would not like it.

However, if you are ok with a c segment sedan kind of space and slide up the middle row, the last row actually has very decent space. So decent that I have done 400+ kms on a stretch in it (I am 6 feet / 81 kgs so very slightly larger than avg indian) . The key is to slide the middle row forward, pull up the LARGE headrests, pushback the backrest and you have enought space to fit people who are upto 6"2 or so IMHO.

Not cramped by any standards.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 5th July 2014 at 02:10.
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Old 5th July 2014, 11:33   #47
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo v Innova v Ertiga/Mobil

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Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
Hi all,

Interesting discussion.
My Humble Opinion: Most of MUV's (Innova, Ertiga, Xylo, Scorpio, Mobile) are frankly not "True 7-Seater". What i mean "True" is traveling in comfort without causing inconvenience to passengers.

If you look for "True 7-Seater". Then i think Perfectly Nissan Evalia /AL Style fills the list in Personal Transportation.
No, no, the Evalia probably won't do either. What is required is something like this - the Commuter! Too bad Toyota doesn't sell it here
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Old 5th July 2014, 15:41   #48
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
To be a bit blunt I think you guys have not used the Innova much and hence got the seat setting all wrong. If you do not slide back the seat backrest, pull up the headrest and slide the middle row forward, the last row can be difficult. But it transforms if you do all this, w/o any pain for the middle row.
Yeah but that's point of contention here. Even in Ertiga and Mobilio, if you slide the middle row forward you get acceptable legroom on both rows.

This is what people are saying makes the Innova not a 7 seater.
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Old 5th July 2014, 19:10   #49
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
...in Ertiga and Mobilio, if you slide the middle row forward you get acceptable legroom on both rows...
The space that Innova's seating adjustment liberates for the 3rd row was comfortable for 2 well grown adults (me {6' & 'healthy'} & another similar built friend) for ~200km/4hrs.

BUT the space Ertiga's seating adjustment liberated was only sufficient for a child.

I assumed Mobilio would be the same. But, after having realised that the Mobilio is 12cm longer, and after having checked out the space management done in the Amaze, I admit that I might've jumped the gun about the Mobilio's seating arrangement. Sincerest apologies.

Last edited by WorkingGuru : 5th July 2014 at 19:13.
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Old 6th July 2014, 08:35   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Yeah but that's point of contention here. Even in Ertiga and Mobilio, if you slide the middle row forward you get acceptable legroom on both rows.

This is what people are saying makes the Innova not a 7 seater.
Would slightly differ on this vid. In ertiga if you slide the middle row forward then it greatly Compromises the leg space for the middle row occupants leading to a situation where both 2nd and 3rd row occupants are unhappy. Innova still allows everyone to travel in relative comfort. Ofcourse this might differ if your built is on the shorter side.
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Old 6th July 2014, 08:55   #51
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo v Innova v Ertiga/Mobil

How we left Aria here? IMHO Aria has best legroom and seats available among all MUVs mentioned here. The last row seats can use used by Adults as well.

There is no True/False case in 7 seater. If someone need True 7 seater then there are other options like Tata Winger and Tempo Traveller.
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Old 6th July 2014, 11:25   #52
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo v Innova v Ertiga/Mobil

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Would slightly differ on this vid. In ertiga if you slide the middle row forward then it greatly Compromises the leg space for the middle row occupants leading to a situation where both 2nd and 3rd row occupants are unhappy. Innova still allows everyone to travel in relative comfort. Ofcourse this might differ if your built is on the shorter side.
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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
The space that Innova's seating adjustment liberates for the 3rd row was comfortable for 2 well grown adults (me {6' & 'healthy'} & another similar built friend) for ~200km/4hrs.

BUT the space Ertiga's seating adjustment liberated was only sufficient for a child.
But this is what I said earlier. I was merely pointing out that for some Innova is a proper 7 seater but there are others that think that it is still not a proper 7 seater.

I was fine in 3rd row of Innova for extended time but others clearly are not happy with even the Innova's 3rd row. If you need to push the middle row seat forward to be comfortable at the back, then other's may argue that this does not make it a proper 7 seater.

As I mentioned according to me Innova is best of the trio when it comes to space for 7 followed by Mobilio then Ertiga.

For occasional 3rd row usage for kids or short distance the Ertiga is just fine although others will argue that it is now.

In summary I am merely saying that people have different perceptions of space. For some Ertiga is spacious as they need occasional 7 seater and for some even the Innova is not spacious.

Even I know that by sliding Innova second row, you can get good space for 3rd row but for some others that's not acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
How we left Aria here? IMHO Aria has best legroom and seats available among all MUVs mentioned here. The last row seats can use used by Adults as well.
I think we all agree that those are cars which people don't even look at when considering a MPV. Else the Evalia, Enjoy and Aria are also in contention. No one has left out the Aria, it's just no one wants even wants to look/consider one. Same goes for Evalia.
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Old 6th July 2014, 12:03   #53
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo v Innova v Ertiga/Mobil

I have traveled in Innova's last row of seats thrice. One was a 350kms drive & another one was of 250kms & the recent one was 400+

Along with me, my wife was seated & my niece/nephew (on two occasions)

While we don't look forward to get seated in the 3rd row, it wasn't bad or uncomfortable. Innova used to bottom out on speed breakers. And I am close to 6 and my mass is easily seen

AC was a chiller.
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Old 7th July 2014, 16:52   #54
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mob

True 7 seaters in the Indian market are the Innova/Xylo. They are tough body-on-frame vehicles which can take 7 adults (provided there a few short adults) on trips. But no car on sale in the country has good third row comfort like the minivans used in USA.

Ertiga/Mobilio are best used as 5 seaters with a big boot which can accommodate two kids for the occasional journey around town.
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Old 7th July 2014, 17:43   #55
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo v Innova v Ertiga/Mobil

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
How we left Aria here? IMHO Aria has best legroom and seats available among all MUVs mentioned here. The last row seats can use used by Adults as well.
Anuj

I did mention about the Aria in my previous post on this link. However I think it got lost in the discussion.
Even the Chevrolet Enjoy is a good option along with the Aria. But then I believe, the pricing strategy here commands for them to be ignored.

Thanks

Last edited by maverick.munish : 7th July 2014 at 17:46.
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Old 7th July 2014, 18:05   #56
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mob

As an owner of a 2011 Toyota Innova (done 35,000 kms) and a 2012 Maruti Suzuki Ertiga (done 90,000 kms), I have a few points to share :

Basic Comparison:
The Innova and the Ertiga cannot be compared as they are not in the same size or price segment. (~10L for the Ertiga vs ~14L for the Innova). The Innova has a much larger 2.5L engine compared to the 1.3L in the Ertiga. It is also almost a foot longer than the Ertiga.

Note: For the following comparison, I have considered adults to be of medium-large build, ~80-90 kg and ~5'10" height.

Middle Row
Innova: The middle row of the Innova is good for 3 adults in good comfort. If you have the captain seats version, 2 adults can travel in supreme comfort. Sliding middle row provides massive legroom if need be. Also, sliding the front seat all the way to the front, removing the headrest and reclining it back all the way makes for an extremely comfortable bed. No beating the Innova here.
Ertiga: If the same 3 adults were to travel in the Ertiga, it would be a very tight fit. The Ertiga 2nd row is best suited for 2 adults only. Thigh support in the Ertiga is not as good as the Innova. Sliding and reclining 2nd row in the Ertiga makes things better, only just.

Third Row
Innova: The reclining 3rd row of the Innova would seat the 2 of the same adults in comfort without any issues regarding thigh support, legroom or shoulder room. Infact, the third row in the Innova is very close to the middle row of the Innova in terms of comfort. Yes it does get a little bouncy over serious bumps, but nowhere close to 'uncomfortable'.
Ertiga: The third row of the Ertiga is not suited for adults. There is no legroom (unless you slide your middle row a long way forward), no shoulder space and under thigh support is absent. Also, the seat is low and the floor is high, making you sit in a really uncomfortable position. The third row is best suited for small kids as it can get really uncomfortable over even short distances.

Then why the Innova AND the Ertiga?
Simple, they are two entirely different cars.
The Innova was bought as a comfortable 'family' car. A car which we mostly use only on trips or for airport runs. The comfort offered by the Innova is leagues ahead than that on offer by the Ertiga. This is where the Innova justifies its price tag, and also makes it a premium offering from a segment above the Ertiga.
The Ertiga was bought as a sedan alternative. It was bought as an upgrade to the 1,30,000 km run Dzire. It was bought to ferry my mom to and fro from her factory, 90 kms everyday over highway and bad roads. My mom wanted a car with a comfortable rear bench(chaffeur driven) , slightly higher seating, good fuel efficiency, decent ground clearance and hassle free AfterSalesService. Having owned over 7 Maruti Suzuki cars in the past, it was literally a no-brainer when the Ertiga was launched. It had to be it.

Another 6 months down the line, we will be looking to replace the Ertiga. The Mobilio RS is the strongest contender as of now. If it has a decent cabin and a good rear seat, it will be the Mobilio for us, irrespective of it being a *True* seven seater or not.
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Old 7th July 2014, 18:12   #57
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mob

I dont know if anyone would be "comfortable" in the third row of any car. Its a squeeze in any car - innova or xylo or ertiga - just because its gets claustrophobic (atleast psychologically) without a proper window and a door for the third row.

To me, I would only call a winger or TT to be "comfortable" for more than 5 people.

Last edited by veyron_head : 7th July 2014 at 18:13.
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Old 7th July 2014, 20:58   #58
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mob

The thing is, rarely any car in India has all 7 seats that are comfortable. Even, huge and extremely expensive cars like the Q7 and the GL have last rows that just aren't as comfortable. Only MPVs like Tata Winger or Mercedes Viano have all seats that are equally comfortable, but those are too large for our roads.

I believe, people buy these cars for their rugged appeal, and go anywhere attitudes, with their Ladder on frame chassis. Plus, loading luggage in an SUV is far easier, and with the seats down, boot space is larger than Sedans.

Plus, in India, the love for SUVs is huge, hence their sales.

In the cars you have mentioned, I believe the Xylo and Innova fare better than the Ertiga and Mobilio.

But, all these cars fare okayish for short City trips, plus Average height in India is just 5'5, so we really don't demand all that space.
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Old 8th July 2014, 06:52   #59
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Talking Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mob

Hey guys. I personally feel that if one is a frequent traveller to the hills and goes for a vacation along with the kids, or even adults for that matter on a frequent basis, should consider the monocoque seven seaters rather than the ladder frame ones. I know they are less powerful and may struggle to climb with their small engines but believe me they do just fine on the steepest of inclines even with their puny engines. Guess its the cars lighter weight which helps.

I travel a lot with my extended family to the garhwal hills atleast once a month and find the ertiga/enjoy lot more comfortable than innova/xylo. The reason being the latter group has a very high seating position and rolls a lot on the sharp hilly roads especially when there is an expert taxi driver at the wheel
I and the kids tend to feel nauseous when we are sitting in the last seat as all these cars have pop up windows to make it more claustrophobic and hence aiding the cause. I have travelled to the hills on all the above mentioned vehicles with some very enthusiastic taxi drivers on the wheel and find the enjoy the most comfortable. Primary reason being it has a more erect seating position, better head room and more space than the ertiga in the last row. Also it is rear wheel drive and the front wheels do not slip as much as the ertiga on the low speed turns. Yet to try the evalia. Cheers!
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Old 8th July 2014, 08:20   #60
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Default Re: Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mob

Adding my own perspective to how I view the "7" seater. I own an Ertiga.

The most frequent companions to the car, are myself ( driver ), my brother, and my parents. And I always pack light and whenever possible only in backpacks or duffels. No hard suitcases.

Here is why I love these "7" seaters.

Me and my brother in the front. Parents in the 2nd row. Luggage in the 3rd row. After a couple of 100kms of drive, it's invariable that my parents have to rest. I pull over, and stash all the luggage on the floor and my parents can use the complete 2nd and 3rd row to have a nice nap. The 2nd row AC vent helps us further :-)
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