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Old 1st July 2014, 11:20   #1
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Default Is there a *true* 7-seater in the Indian MUV market? Xylo vs Innova vs Ertiga/Mobilio

Somehow these "neither here nor there" kind of mini MUVs like Ertiga/Enjoyment/Mobilio doesn't make sense to me.

The last row cannot seat adults in comfort. Hence its for kids only. But how many people would spend 9 lacs and still be worried about their kids being in an unsafe territory (you know what i mean - those back seats have little or no protection against a rear smash). So if not kids, you fold the seats and make way for more luggage. But an average mid size sedan with 500 odd litres of space should be sufficient for that purpose anyway?

Beats me!
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Old 1st July 2014, 11:50   #2
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Somehow these "neither here nor there" kind of mini MUVs like Ertiga/Enjoyment/Mobilio doesn't make sense to me.
And it will still make sense for many who don't want a 7 seater but will welcome a flexible configuration based on requirements.
Quote:
The last row cannot seat adults in comfort. Hence its for kids only. But how many people would spend 9 lacs and still be worried about their kids being in an unsafe territory (you know what i mean - those back seats have little or no protection against a rear smash). So if not kids, you fold the seats and make way for more luggage. But an average mid size sedan with 500 odd litres of space should be sufficient for that purpose anyway?

Beats me!
True! but as I mentioned earlier, buyers may not at all be looking for a full time 7 seater. They may also not want to stretch till the range a typical full fledged 7 seater would cost (with all the bells and whistles including all the safety features you get in the Sedan/MPV/MUV).

Taller seating, Easy ingress egress, sliding and reclining second row & above all, definitely more airier cabin than a typical sedan can be the attributes that make people opt for such MPVs over Sedans. Not to forget the Ground clearance part.

Even I never wanted a 7 seater but then the 3rd row has came in handy on typical situations mentioned earlier.
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Old 1st July 2014, 12:01   #3
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Somehow these "neither here nor there" kind of mini MUVs like Ertiga/Enjoyment/Mobilio doesn't make sense to me.
Very true. These are essentially just a sedan with different boot and less driving dynamics. But there are few use cases for this MUV big boots, like carrying a bicycle - can't be done in a sedan.
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Old 1st July 2014, 14:34   #4
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
And it will still make sense for many who don't want a 7 seater but will welcome a flexible configuration based on requirements.

True! but as I mentioned earlier, buyers may not at all be looking for a full time 7 seater. They may also not want to stretch till the range a typical full fledged 7 seater would cost (with all the bells and whistles including all the safety features you get in the Sedan/MPV/MUV).

Taller seating, Easy ingress egress, sliding and reclining second row & above all, definitely more airier cabin than a typical sedan can be the attributes that make people opt for such MPVs over Sedans. Not to forget the Ground clearance part.

Even I never wanted a 7 seater but then the 3rd row has came in handy on typical situations mentioned earlier.


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Originally Posted by guruji View Post
Very true. These are essentially just a sedan with different boot and less driving dynamics. But there are few use cases for this MUV big boots, like carrying a bicycle - can't be done in a sedan.
Flexible and tall seating apart, i do not personally see a great lot of value of a mini-MUV over a sedan or premium hatchback.
Though i do appreciate ability to carry tall stuff like bicycle etc., but how many times one does it, and does it really warrant a dedicated vehicle, that is the question.

Make no mistake, i am not taking anything away from these cars as such, but it just that to me it does not seem to add much incremental value over a sedan or premium hatchback.

P.S. Having owned WagonR (both first and latest generation) before, i totally agree on the ease of ingress/egress part as well as the benefit of having a tall boot. But today's sedans are not very low slung either, like they used to be earlier. And with height adjustment, today's sedan's/premium hatchbacks do not pose as much difficulty in terms of ingress/egress anyway.

Just my 2 cents. Did not mean to offend anyone.

Last edited by DCEite : 1st July 2014 at 14:36.
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Old 1st July 2014, 14:44   #5
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post

Make no mistake, i am not taking anything away from these cars as such, but it just that to me it does not seem to add much incremental value over a sedan or premium hatchback.
Flexible seating is a big plus when considering this segment. Yes, this car is not created to carry a bicycle alone but look at the practicality that is not that great in a sedan. I am NOT saying sedans are cramped boxes but when utility is looked at these MUV's tick boxes without an issue.

Going on a long holiday with 6 passengers totally and their luggage - will you pick these cars or a sedan. No sedan will hold 6 passengers comfortably so you'll need 2 sedans which spoils the fun of the trip as all 6 can't be seated in one car to have fun. This is where the Ertiga, Innova and now the Mobilio come into picture.

Versatility is the key and answer to this segment.

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 1st July 2014 at 14:46.
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Old 1st July 2014, 15:13   #6
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Going on a long holiday with 6 passengers totally and their luggage - will you pick these cars or a sedan. No sedan will hold 6 passengers comfortably so you'll need 2 sedans which spoils the fun of the trip as all 6 can't be seated in one car to have fun. This is where the Ertiga, Innova and now the Mobilio come into picture.

Versatility is the key and answer to this segment.
Innova yes, but 6 passengers and their luggage on a highway trip may not be a pleasant experience in a small MPV like Mobilio or the Ertiga. In my opinion, these are ideal city cars for a large family.

But yes, its infinitely better than squeezing 6-7 people in a 5-seater.
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Old 1st July 2014, 15:19   #7
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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Innova yes, but 6 passengers and their luggage on a highway trip may not be a pleasant experience in a small MPV like Mobilio or the Ertiga. In my opinion, these are ideal city cars for a large family.

But yes, its infinitely better than squeezing 6-7 people in a 5-seater.
Ertiga is a very understated car that does this people carrying without any problem but yes it may not look that spacious as compared to the Innova.

The Mobilio as Honda advertises is spacious than the Ertiga so it should ferry people in a comfort though using last row by adults totally would be a squeeze which is not recommended.

Anurag.
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Old 1st July 2014, 15:22   #8
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

Where the 7-seater part comes in handy, is when you want ferry people for short distances in the city. I think that is where the flexibility comes in. No way it can carry 7 for the highway.
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Old 1st July 2014, 15:29   #9
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Where the 7-seater part comes in handy, is when you want ferry people for short distances in the city. I think that is where the flexibility comes in. No way it can carry 7 for the highway.
Not to drag this topic for long but If its a day drive with seldom luggage to bother, It can manage such stints without much ado. This is what I have already mentioned in previous page.

That said, I also admitted that this cannot be the case if you talk about planning an interstate tour spanning 1000s of kms with all that luggage. You are better off with a Xylo in such cases which indeed is a proper 7 seater.

Last edited by paragsachania : 1st July 2014 at 15:35.
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Old 1st July 2014, 15:40   #10
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Ertiga is a very understated car that does this people carrying without any problem but yes it may not look that spacious as compared to the Innova.

The Mobilio as Honda advertises is spacious than the Ertiga so it should ferry people in a comfort though using last row by adults totally would be a squeeze which is not recommended.
I am not questioning its people-carrying abilities, or which one has got better space (Mobilio v/s Ertiga). As you said these small MPVs are versatile, and for me the versatility is handy for city runabouts, but not as a highway/long-distance cruiser.

Honda obviously will advertise the space and 7-seats. After all that is supposed to be the USP for a car of this type right?
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Old 1st July 2014, 15:48   #11
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I am not questioning its people-carrying abilities, or which one has got better space (Mobilio v/s Ertiga). As you said these small MPVs are versatile, and for me the versatility is handy for city runabouts, but not as a highway/long-distance cruiser.

Honda obviously will advertise the space and 7-seats. After all that is supposed to be the USP for a car of this type right?
+1.

Honda will advertise this as a point A - point B people mover, with space for seven adults, and loaded with the i-DTEC which returns a mind-boggling FE figure. Those are the only things which appeal to the mass-market today, and that's where they are going with the Mobilio. Everything else remains secondary.
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Old 1st July 2014, 16:07   #12
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I am not questioning its people-carrying abilities, or which one has got better space (Mobilio v/s Ertiga). As you said these small MPVs are versatile, and for me the versatility is handy for city runabouts, but not as a highway/long-distance cruiser.

Honda obviously will advertise the space and 7-seats. After all that is supposed to be the USP for a car of this type right?
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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
+1.

Honda will advertise this as a point A - point B people mover, with space for seven adults, and loaded with the i-DTEC which returns a mind-boggling FE figure. Those are the only things which appeal to the mass-market today, and that's where they are going with the Mobilio. Everything else remains secondary.
This perhaps seems like a never ending topic. But the fact remains that 7 Seater Flexi cars (Call that whatever, MUV, MPV, LUV) can never be all time 7 seaters. This is the exact reason the manufacturers also advertise this as a Flexi 7 seater car rather than a full time 7 seater itself.

There is no doubt that the Mobilio will easily win over the Ertiga when it comes to a couple of points:
  • H-Badge
  • Advanced iDTEC Engine with more displacement and Power
  • Better Fuel efficiency
  • Split 3rd row
  • Better luggage capacity with the 3rd row in place
Honda is going to bank upon these facts and that is where you see them placing luggage to illustrate the USP called bigger than Ertiga boot. When it comes to seating 7 in comfort and whether we take it out on Highway or merely use it for intra city runs is something that will totally depend on the user and his use cases of course. Since we know how pampered the Indian customer is, he is likely to embrace anything that will give him Better Economy, Better reliability and now on top of that, better flexibility and a better boot as well!

Last edited by paragsachania : 1st July 2014 at 16:14.
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Old 1st July 2014, 21:24   #13
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

Disclaimer : Views are personal and NOT meant to offend anyone.

The Mobilio is a cramped 7 seater because its designed for shorter & leaner Indonesians, NOT Indians. It was never originally designed for India. Thats the honest & blunt truth and some of us better face it rather than search for reasons to justify the cramped seating setup. Its a similar case with the Ertiga. Owners are forced to 'make do' with the lack of available space with the adjustments provided. Its NOT these cars that are versatile, its the people who're adjusting and managing the limited space available.

Also, the gear-ratio's with the 5-Speed gear-box could very well be botched up for the 1.5 iVtec. Its going to be a Loud Petrol, as is the diesel. NOT justified IMHO for whats rumored to be priced 13L!

Waiting for the launch.
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Old 1st July 2014, 21:36   #14
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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[b]
The Mobilio is a cramped 7 seater because its designed for shorter & leaner Indonesians, NOT Indians. It was never originally designed for India. Thats the honest & blunt truth and some of us better face it rather than search for reasons to justify the cramped seating setup.
So can you tell us what else you felt about the Mobilio when you sat inside it and came to the conclusion that it is cramped? OR is it that the above post is just a baseless comment in the air with no actual experience?

In that case I would suggest you do not assume before coming to silly conclusions.

Secondly there is nothing like designed for Indonesians and not for Indians.

The Ertiga and Mobilio are not trying to be full size MPV's. I'm not sure where people get that impression.

Both these UV's are occasional 6-7 seaters that are car like to drive. People who need the extra seats but only occasionally and don't want to drive a cumbersome full size MPV daily just for occasional use.

On paper you can compare them with Innova or Xylo but in reality they target a different customer base.

If you are looking for a full size 7 seater MPV and consider Ertiga or Mobilio then you have your priorities mixed up.
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Old 1st July 2014, 22:35   #15
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Default Re: Honda Mobilio (Brio-based MPV) coming soon? EDIT: pre-launch ad on p29

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The Ertiga and Mobilio are not trying to be full size MPV's. I'm not sure where people get that impression.

Both these UV's are occasional 6-7 seaters that are car like to drive. People who need the extra seats but only occasionally and don't want to drive a cumbersome full size MPV daily just for occasional use.

On paper you can compare them with Innova or Xylo but in reality they target a different customer base.

If you are looking for a full size 7 seater MPV and consider Ertiga or Mobilio then you have your priorities mixed up.
Couldn't agree more.

Just because a car is a 7-seater doesn't mean that it will be packed with 7 people for every trip it makes, inside town or outside. Besides, how many 7-seaters actually find people using the 6th/7th seat regularly? More often than not, they end up folded and the space liberated is used as a boot extension.

It's like an extra option which is provided in the car. If you have 7 people to transport all of a sudden or in an emergency, then here's 2 extra seats at the rear for you.

If you are looking for a regular-duty 7-seater, then both Ertiga & Mobilio should be struck off.
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