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Old 31st July 2007, 01:33   #1
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Arrow Help! Winger or Sumo Victa ?

Sir,
I am noob in this forum, I search the forum but can't found any similer thread.

Please Consider:- I am a full-illiterate in any four wheeler segment all my knowledge belong from news-paper/magazine/Web-site car review.

I am looking for a MUV to use it Car Rental service/Business and Occasional self-travelling with my family members. So after a long googling/reading review, I decided to go for SUMO Victa EX Turbo(1948 cc) 10 Seater version(As per specification mentioned in TATA's Website/Broucher). As I know all possible flaws like City driving(Stop-Look-Go) it sucks a big time, Every time; shifting the gear it hits the Music System(If fitted any).Or even the engine is under powered with this kind of bulky vehicles with full load.
{Love To Know any other flaw if any one experienced in Victa}

[In this category I love to Go with Mahindra Bolero Di Plus 10 Seater(2523cc Turbo Diesel)]

But in my place we see that people love to travel/hire in SUMOs coz all can bundled in one box,They don't have any headache about the Engine performance/Speed or other technical stuff. I have read some review where it stated that the Space in the Sumo is unmatched with any other car in this price tag & passenger can change the seat without stopping the car.So I have to stay with Industry Standered.

Ok,Here is my question,

1.Is that now worth going to With Sumo or Am I wait for Winger ?
As of my need I like to go with Winger Deluxe AC 13+1 version (Flat Roof)[Bara hai bahetar hain]

2.After reading the broacher I can't understand Is Winger suitable for long or short distance trip ? My need that car must be capable to run at least 600-700 km a day when needed (of course take several hour of rest)

3.Is winger type of car suitable only for city or can be usable in hill station too? (I am not talking about 4x4 off-road or mountain climbing drive,want to use in hill station like road...can't express more than that)

4.SUMO equipped with a Inter-cool engine and winger have a water cool engine,So I think water-cool is that kind of which radiator needs water for cooling the whole engine system....So my query is what is inter-cooled ?

5.After releasing Winger Is there any chance to stop manufacturing SUMO just like Toyota stop there successful Qualis after arriving Innova ? I know this a stupid one but I am worrying about spare parts if I go for victa now.
So any guess...


sorry for a long post but, I need to take some decision...Car enthusiasts/specialist/please help......

Sorry for questioning about sub-standered car according to your/forum
status/standered.
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Old 31st July 2007, 10:39   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neel2007 View Post
But in my place we see that people love to travel/hire in SUMOs coz all can bundled in one box,They don't have any headache about the Engine performance/Speed or other technical stuff. I have read some review where it stated that the Space in the Sumo is unmatched with any other car in this price tag & passenger can change the seat without stopping the car.So I have to stay with Industry Standered.
You have answered your question yourself, go for what the market demands, in business you shouldnt become an enthusiast.

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Originally Posted by neel2007 View Post
1.Is that now worth going to With Sumo or Am I wait for Winger ?
Sumo is now more refined and tested than ever, whereas Winger will be a new product that too a TATA product !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by neel2007 View Post
2.After reading the broacher I can't understand Is Winger suitable for long or short distance trip ? My need that car must be capable to run at least 600-700 km a day when needed (of course take several hour of rest)
Most vehicles can do more than that in a single stretch, even the small cars.

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Originally Posted by neel2007 View Post
3.Is winger type of car suitable only for city or can be usable in hill station too?
Most engined vehicles can climb a tarred road with ease, hill station or not.

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Originally Posted by neel2007 View Post
4.SUMO equipped with a Inter-cool engine and winger have a water cool engine,So I think water-cool is that kind of which radiator needs water for cooling the whole engine system....So my query is what is inter-cooled ?
Both will have a radiator with coolant+water mix for the engine cooling. Intercooler is defined as a siphon or alternative point of distribution of the HVAC output in which a HVAC diversion line leads into the inlet of the turbocharger or supercharger of the vehicle engine to mix with ambient air entering the turbocharger. In an alternative embodiment, a compressed air source may be bled into the turbocharger or supercharger inlet.

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5.After releasing Winger Is there any chance to stop manufacturing SUMO just like Toyota stop there successful Qualis after arriving Innova ? I know this a stupid one but I am worrying about spare parts if I go for victa now.
So any guess...
Not that I have heard of, but even if they discontinue, they will provide spares/support for 4-5 years and by that time you would have recovered your investment.
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Old 31st July 2007, 10:51   #3
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If you can wait for the Winger, you might as well wait for the new Sumo, though the launch date may be further down the line.

AFAIK, the ground clearance of the Winger seems to be pretty low, with the rear bumper almost scraping the road.
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Old 31st July 2007, 10:56   #4
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Spacio now. Waiting = cost of lost business.

Waiting gets one a good car, but brother, this is business. Nothing personal
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Old 31st July 2007, 11:18   #5
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The first thing you need to know is how much the winger is going to cost you per km compared to the sumo because its not everytime that those 13 seats are going to be filled and people will not always be ready to pay the higher per km charges.

Secondly how big is it compared to the sumo because sometimes people are not too keen on huge vehicles and instead prefer smaller ones[how many of us rent out the tempo traveller].

The winger is a new concept and it's like taking a gamble since we don't know how people will accept it but if it does click you will have the first mover advantage.
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Old 31st July 2007, 18:31   #6
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Thanks all of you for your nice suggestion/appreciation/info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
If you can wait for the Winger, you might as well wait for the new Sumo, though the launch date may be further down the line.
Isn't the New Sumo = Sumo Victa series Or they upgrade the whole family (i,e
SE 4x4, SE+, 4x4, Spacio)

If yes,

Any information about tech space of new sumo ? Any link/info will be helpful

Thanks in advance.
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Old 31st July 2007, 20:06   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neel2007
SUMO Victa EX Turbo(1948 cc) 10 Seater version
Victa EX or Victa 10 seater is not available in Turbo version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neel2007
Every time; shifting the gear it hits the Music System
This does not happen in the Victa.
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Old 31st July 2007, 20:18   #8
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why not wait for the new Sumo. It looks awesome and may come with the 3L Dicor engine
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Old 31st July 2007, 20:36   #9
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neel,

If you're able to stretch the timeframe you're looking to acquire this people-mover in, there are talks abt a new Sumo being released in 2008. And it should be measurably better than the current ones - Tata being a company that doesnt repeat a mistake.

And your concern abt the Sumo(any form) being discontinued due to arrival of a new stablemate can be laid to rest. The Sumo will flourish well into the future owing to its people-mover capabilites at an affordable price.
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Old 31st July 2007, 22:10   #10
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If you are to buy say like within the month..go with the market and get a Victa. Its too early to place your bets on the winger.
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Old 1st August 2007, 14:39   #11
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Thanks a lot about so much info/help.

I am planed to buy in between Oct-Dec 07,but if there is a real good deal ahead I can wait for 1st half of next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas
It looks awesome and may come with the 3L Dicor engine
One question,
Isn't there more fuel consumption with a 3L Spacio Engine or upcoming new sumo 3L Dicor engine than present 2L Sumo engine ?
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Old 1st August 2007, 15:36   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neel2007 View Post
One question,
Isn't there more fuel consumption with a 3L Spacio Engine or upcoming new sumo 3L Dicor engine than present 2L Sumo engine ?
Ummm, too early to speculate on the FE figures as yet. However, if you consider that the new engine will be a much more refined unit in comparison to the current agrarian one and will have the advantage of a common rail setup you may very well be looking at a much more efficient setup that may have no effect or a very negligible effect on the FE figures when compared to the current setup.

In the taxi trade every drop of fuel counts. Tata knows this much better than anyone else. Since the vehicles are mainly in use in the commercial segment Tatas must have factored all these in and then decided for the upgrade. Do not be surprised if the FE figure actually turns out to be slightly better than the current engine.

By the way, wanted to ask you this. You wanted to know what is an Intercooled engine and dadu explained this to you in his post. Did you understand it at all?
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Old 2nd August 2007, 02:12   #13
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By the way, wanted to ask you this. You wanted to know what is an Intercooled engine and dadu explained this to you in his post. Did you understand it at all?
frankly, No.

Actually my intention was Who's engine is better......

@condor

Thanks for pointing....
Yes,I checked the downloaded Catalog, Victa EX 10 Seater is not Turbo equipped.
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Old 2nd August 2007, 03:04   #14
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For load carrying (passenger load) and that too on hilly sections, it is advisable to stick to the Spacio derivatives (with the 3.0l 407 engine) rather than the Sumo Victa (which in non-turbo form has no pulling power under load). Passenger carrying applications with AC, they have a version called Spacio Gold.

Intercooler (separate radiator like thing) is used to cool the intake charge (air - that is pulled in and compressed using the Turbo). It is not related to engine cooling system (which is what is being refered to when it is mentioned as water-cooled). Even the Turbo Intercooler cars are water/coolant-cooled.

Last edited by 1100D : 2nd August 2007 at 03:07.
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Old 2nd August 2007, 08:36   #15
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frankly, No.

Actually my intention was Who's engine is better......
Haa haaa haaa... I thought as much. Well, don't worry. Let me make it easy to understand. See, engine pulls in air that it uses for combustion of the fuel. Right? Now inherently the cooler the air is the better the whole process will be. So the idea is to get cold air. Now what an Intercooler does is to cool down the air sucked in huge quantities from outside. You would have seen some vehicles have those scoops made out on the bonnet. That is to suck in as much cold air as possible from outside. This is typically routed via the intercooler. This increases the efficiency of the engine. Typically Intercooler fixed vehicles generate a good few bhps more than the non intercooled vehicles of the same make and model. By the way you may have even seen an intercooler. It looks like a small radiator. Has small fin like structures on its surface.

On the other hand radiator also cools but has a different function. It just tries to cool down the engine. The base idea is again that too hot of anything and that fouls the vehicle performance, engine efficiency etc. So the water cooled radiator tries to maintain the engine temp down. Thats it. So even an intercooled engine will have a radiator to keep the engine temperature down.

In the end, a radiator (water cooled, coolant based or coolant+water) is a must in any vehicle but an intercooler is not. Hope you understood it a little more this time around?

Last edited by Zappo : 2nd August 2007 at 08:38.
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