Toyota Innova Variant and TCO Analysis Workshop 2008

[akshay1234]

Originally Posted by btirthankar

These bumpers also have a step on rubber surface so don't get scratched. Can we locate one in India?

you dont really need them. they just spoil the looks of the car. my innova is used about 60-80kms daily in bombay traffic and its never got hit on the back or in the front. you just need to drive carefully.

have you made a decision on which variant you are gonna buy?

[trrk]

Hi btirthankar,

> See the Climate Control

And the Automatic gearbox!

[Xehaust]

Still awaiting your response as to what is your usage pattern.
Anyway, after seeing the amount of travelling you do, i would certainly suggest an Innova and a diesel one at that as though it has a higher cost of purchase, as mentioned and calculated earlier, it will definately be cheaper in the long term as you travel a lot.

Another thing is that it is great on the highway and is quite at home on city roads as well. It feels just like your driving a large sedan. Only trouble in the city will be the parking space it requires.

Another thing to consider is that i would suggest go for the V series. I own one and its very comfortable to drive and when i sit behind in the captain chairs as well. The only hindrance will be that the last row seats are a little uncomfortable to long journeys and specially for tall people. I dont think more than 2 people should sit in the last row. But on the positive side, the middle row (Captain Chairs) has a sort of pillow in the middle so you can put the side arms on top and three people can sit here in comfort. Let me know if you want pics to understand what im talking about.

As for luggage, the last row folds up and turns into luggage compartment. It is a very capable car with great styling and the V series not only looks great, but mainly bought it from the safety point of view (SRS+Airbags) which will be great for you and your wife. But also the V series has everything you will want. You will not have to buy any aftermarket accesories apart from a sunroof which i think is pointless and those bumper gaurds you suggest (Havnt seen such good looking gaurds in india, the ones you get here are ugly).

The V series will pamper you with all these things that you would want:
Fog Lamps
MP3 Player with 6 speakers which sound good
Captain Chairs
Lovely Upholestry
Stlying (The chrome and wood)

And all this will cost lower than buying the other variant and getting these things fitted later. Just my thoughts

[akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Xehaust

But on the positive side, the middle row (Captain Chairs) has a sort of pillow in the middle so you can put the side arms on top and three people can sit here in comfort. Let me know if you want pics to understand what im talking about.

And all this will cost lower than buying the other variant and getting these things fitted later. Just my thoughts

would love to see pic of the pillow thing. i didnt understand what you meant.

actually the only reason to buy the v variant is the abs and airbags. the rest could be got for much less than the 1.5l diff.

[trrk]

Hi,

> It feels just like your driving a large sedan. Only trouble in the city will be
> the parking space it requires.

I did have a V series. The parking does seem to be a problem with it. That is more to with the visibility. Parking sensors and using the very good door mirrors (Rs 5800 each in V) minimises the pain. But surprisingly it is not much longer or wider than the bigger sedans.

In mm LxWxH,

Innova - 4555x1770x1755
Civic - 4545x1750x1450
Octavia - 4507x1731x1431
Endeavour - 4958x1805x1835
Safari - 4810x1918x1925

[Proxima]

Originally Posted by trrk

Innova - 4555x1770x1755
Civic - 4545x1750x1450
Octavia - 4507x1731x1431
Endeavour - 4958x1805x1835
Safari - 4810x1918x1925

No wonder ONLY the safari can sear 3 comfortably in the second row.

[LLL]

Originally Posted by Proxima

No wonder ONLY the safari can sear 3 comfortably in the second row.

is that 1918 mm width with sidesteps? a website shows width as 1810 mm only.

Better still, why dont you post the actual 2nd row seat width of your safari? and Maybe someone with innova can also do the same?

[btirthankar]

Originally Posted by Xehaust

Still awaiting your response as to what is your usage pattern.
Anyway, after seeing the amount of travelling you do, i would certainly suggest an Innova and a diesel one at that as though it has a higher cost of purchase, as mentioned and calculated earlier, it will definately be cheaper in the long term as you travel a lot.

Another thing is that it is great on the highway and is quite at home on city roads as well. It feels just like your driving a large sedan. Only trouble in the city will be the parking space it requires.

Another thing to consider is that i would suggest go for the V series. I own one and its very comfortable to drive and when i sit behind in the captain chairs as well. The only hindrance will be that the last row seats are a little uncomfortable to long journeys and specially for tall people. I dont think more than 2 people should sit in the last row. But on the positive side, the middle row (Captain Chairs) has a sort of pillow in the middle so you can put the side arms on top and three people can sit here in comfort. Let me know if you want pics to understand what im talking about.

As for luggage, the last row folds up and turns into luggage compartment. It is a very capable car with great styling and the V series not only looks great, but mainly bought it from the safety point of view (SRS+Airbags) which will be great for you and your wife. But also the V series has everything you will want. You will not have to buy any aftermarket accesories apart from a sunroof which i think is pointless and those bumper gaurds you suggest (Havnt seen such good looking gaurds in india, the ones you get here are ugly).

The V series will pamper you with all these things that you would want:
Fog Lamps
MP3 Player with 6 speakers which sound good
Captain Chairs
Lovely Upholestry
Stlying (The chrome and wood)

And all this will cost lower than buying the other variant and getting these things fitted later. Just my thoughts

I take your opinion positively esp. on the Top Variant. But I am still confused on the diesel/petrol choice.

Captain Seats are a Must for me.

I'll tell you about my driving cycle.

• Long Trips (atleast once a quarter) say 8,000 Kms p.a.
• Remaining Driving Cycles are
• Intra City (Office-Home 8 Kms x 2) = 500 Kms
• Weekend Shopping (10 Kms) = 200 Kms
• other Drive outs and it totals to say 8000 Kms. p.a.

Total Driving 16000 kms in City Highway almost 50/50

But for many days the car will be idle in the year (due to outstation trips etc.) And City Driving will be recurring start-stop and through congested areas like bazars, malls etc.

Please post pictures if you can as you elaborated.

My Doubts on Diesel: (These are myths I may have so pls comment, dont criticise)

• Vibration (makes noise all the time)
• Not Rev Friendly (cant race)
• Shorter Service Cycles ( I cant afford to visit Toyota for more than 2wice a year)
• I dont want so spend a fortune on preventive maintenance except cam belts etc. after 80 K kms.
• I will own this car for as long as 80-10 years. (it should still be savvy for a long time)
• I want black matt alloys (Toyota will give me nothing for the V series alloys in exchange)
• I want a black innova only or at the most red.

Now the only thing deterring me from the V series is that it crosses the million barrier and I would be tempted to increase my budget to 15 lacs if I cross that, just as I did not opt for Honda City as it crosses the 8 lacs barrier.

I take into consideration not just the ex showroom but also the road tax etc. Resale is no factor here. I consider it a expense and not an investment.

I am getting more and more confused on the variants. I want something on excel sheet with figures to substantiate. I had made a template in the beginning of this thread. Can you help? Pls consider all costs.

[akshay1234]

Originally Posted by btirthankar

I take your opinion positively esp. on the Top Variant. But I am still confused on the diesel/petrol choice.

Captain Seats are a Must for me.

I'll tell you about my driving cycle.

• Long Trips (atleast once a quarter) say 8,000 Kms p.a.
• Remaining Driving Cycles are
• Intra City (Office-Home 8 Kms x 2) = 500 Kms
• Weekend Shopping (10 Kms) = 200 Kms
• other Drive outs and it totals to say 8000 Kms. p.a.

Total Driving 16000 kms in City Highway almost 50/50

With the amount you use your car a diesel should be better.

But for many days the car will be idle in the year (due to outstation trips etc.) And City Driving will be recurring start-stop and through congested areas like bazars, malls etc.

Dosent matter unless its going to be idle for months at a time. a week here and there is fine for any vehicle. diesel will also be easier to drive in the city and on the highway thanks to the torque.

Please post pictures if you can as you elaborated.

My Doubts on Diesel: (These are myths I may have so pls comment, dont criticise)

• Vibration (makes noise all the time)
• The diesel isnt that loud. infact even the petrol when revved isnt like a petrol in a sedan. it too makes a bit of noise. the vibrations in the diesel are negligible.
• Not Rev Friendly (cant race)
• the petrol aint that rev friendly either. i know because ive driven both. but the diesel does become much more rev happy after changing the air filter to something like a green storm. its just like a petrol then. about racing, if you get a petes box youll keep up with most sedans <15lacs.
• Shorter Service Cycles ( I cant afford to visit Toyota for more than 2wice a year)
• IMO the diesel and petrol should be serviced every 5k kms. so its the same for both. even if i had a petrol i would give it fo service every 5k kms.
• I dont want so spend a fortune on preventive maintenance except cam belts etc. after 80 K kms.
• you wont spend a fortune on maintenence. toyota has a 3yr warranty if im not mistaken.
• I will own this car for as long as 80-10 years. (it should still be savvy for a long time)
• No car would really be 'savvy' after 10 years but the innova is still only 3 years old.
• I want black matt alloys (Toyota will give me nothing for the V series alloys in exchange)
• Toyota dealers wont give you anything for the v alloys but tyre dealers will. you can get matt black alloys. you just have to some that are available for the innova
• I want a black innova only or at the most red.
• that you can get in the g4 or v models.

Now the only thing deterring me from the V series is that it crosses the million barrier and I would be tempted to increase my budget to 15 lacs if I cross that, just as I did not opt for Honda City as it crosses the 8 lacs barrier. personally i think the main reason to buy the v series is if you want abs and airbags. if your fine without them then the g4 is for you. everything on the v barring abs and airbags can be got for the g4 at a much lower price than the 1.2lacs more that you pay for the v over the g4.

I take into consideration not just the ex showroom but also the road tax etc. Resale is no factor here. I consider it a expense and not an investment.

I am getting more and more confused on the variants. I want something on excel sheet with figures to substantiate. I had made a template in the beginning of this thread. Can you help? Pls consider all costs.

My answers in bold.

the diesel is a better bet even though its expensive. before buying the innova even i had a word with a couple of senior people at toyota and they too had said the diesel was a superior engine.

what you need to tell us is whether you want abs and airbags or are fine without them.

then we can help you with accessories once you decide which variant you want.


the most important. you have to test drive both the petrol and the diesel and see which one you like. the petrol is not available in 7 seater and the dealer conversion may not be as good as factory fitted.

[vasudeva]

You may consider all costs and keep thinking about them till it is time for your kid to buy one. Drive either variant and buy what you like.

[ravibhat]

Since you own Astra i suggest buy Petrol because:

1. You will love its smoothness and power.
2. Its ideal to buy Petrol If you keep the vehicle idle for long time(continuous 4 weeks lets say) once a while.
3. You are not bothered about resale value.
4. FE you can expect between 7-12.
5. Black or Red look fantastic on Innova, put some custom stickers like what I did.
6. If you are buying V spec and changing alloys send me those 5 alloys, I will pay you 12,000/-
7. by the time you sell your Petrol Innova you get good resale value since 8 years downtheline cost of Petrol/Diesel would be almost same.


Regards,

Ravi.

[akshay1234]

Originally Posted by ravibhat

Since you own Astra i suggest buy Petrol because:

1. You will love its smoothness and power.
honestly its not that much better than the diesel. the power is better but that can be overcome.
2. Its ideal to buy Petrol If you keep the vehicle idle for long time(continuous 4 weeks lets say) once a while.
really, i didnt know that petrols were better to keep idle.
3. You are not bothered about resale value.
that dosent mean he should buy a petrol.
4. FE you can expect between 7-12.
in the diesel you get between 9 and 16.
5. Black or Red look fantastic on Innova, put some custom stickers like what I did.
black looks the best on the innova. personally i feel stickers spoil the look. (no offense meant)
6. If you are buying V spec and changing alloys send me those 5 alloys, I will pay you 12,000/-
those alloys would be bought back from a dealer for a much higher price. (no offense meant again)
7. by the time you sell your Petrol Innova you get good resale value since 8 years downtheline cost of Petrol/Diesel would be almost same.
he isnt bothered about resale value.


Regards,

Ravi.

my replies in bold.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by ravibhat

Since you own Astra i suggest buy Petrol because:

1. You will love its smoothness and power.
2. Its ideal to buy Petrol If you keep the vehicle idle for long time(continuous 4 weeks lets say) once a while.
3. You are not bothered about resale value.
4. FE you can expect between 7-12.
5. Black or Red look fantastic on Innova, put some custom stickers like what I did.
6. If you are buying V spec and changing alloys send me those 5 alloys, I will pay you 12,000/-
7. by the time you sell your Petrol Innova you get good resale value since 8 years downtheline cost of Petrol/Diesel would be almost same.


Regards,

Ravi.

This is real owner feedback on Petrol Innova. Somehow I have also a preference for petrol cars in general, and in case of Innova, for petrol version. However, the petrol Innova hardly sells with people getting scared of its FE. The FE figures seem low, but expected for such a hulk and for me an acceptable compromise for its virtues. I have sat in an Innova, recommended it to my brother as first choice, but he did not want a hulk, so I then recommended City, which he bought. No beating Innova for comfort, and no fears about owning it either.

Frankly, on Indian road conditions, comfort should count over everything else, and IMO perhaps none of the cars in Innova's price range beat it on that count.

[trrk]

Hi LLL,

> is that 1918 mm width with sidesteps? a website shows width as 1810 mm
> only.

It was me who posted the dimensions. I took it from an auto magazine. I just checked now. It is with the footsteps.

> Better still, why dont you post the actual 2nd row seat width of your safari?
> and Maybe someone with innova can also do the same?

Unfortunately, I replaced my Safari with the Innova and later the Innova was replaced with the City CVT.

I had a seven seater Innova.

[Xehaust]

Hey Tirthankar,
Will be going about posting a very detailed reply soon and im sure it would make you happy.
Also will be posting a new thread on how to squeeze a good deal when buying new cars.
Unfortunately, both the above will take some time but i hope to do it in the next 2 or 3 days as they are large posts.

In the meanwhile i found this thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ly-2008-a.html (New Innova + Corolla on the cards by early 2008?)

It states that the Innova might be getting a mid-life facelift soon but if you need a car right away, then dealers are giving very good deals. Might be of interest to you.