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Old 30th January 2008, 16:34   #1
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Default Toyota Innova Variant and TCO Analysis Workshop 2008

Personally, I have a long term perspective on any car that I own and spend a lot of time in choosing one. For all future buyers (including me) - I would like to initiate an analysis for the Toyota Innova. Members, feel fee to modify the excel sheet I have attached for your analysis ( and also host your own - shared on google Google Docs - Innova Analysis 30012008).

The report is structured progressively and in the times to come, I require all your assistance in making it better:
  • Stage 1.Variant Choice (Diesel Vs Petrol, 7 Seater Vs 8 Seater)
  • Stage 2.Price Discovery (City Level =Interest Cost, Dealer Discount, Road Tax)
  • Stage 3.Running Cost (Petrol Vs Diesel)
  • Stage 4.TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) (Assuming 1 Lakh Kms in 3 years)
Fellow members (who already own one) can start contributing to Stage 3 and 4 if they so desire. I am sure this will benefit every one of us and once finished, we can apply this model to other cars as well.

Innova is the true ‘more car per car’ and comes with features like bottle and nick-nack holders and cubby holes , 5+Seating Capacity, 3 row seating, Twin blower AC

Stage 1.Variant Choice
Just as the Innova comes in a variety of configurations, so has Toyota got the opportunity to position the variants at such price points that one is inclined toward the 'V' Series. I am sure there was a lot of homework that went into the same as much as it is to analyze and arrive at the final choice when it comes to variants.

E Series

I have taken off the E Series for two basic reasons: no P/Steering and grey bumpers.The V Series is a tad too expensive (I mean crosses the 1 million barrier)
Petrol Vs. Diesel
The Petrol is attractive because:
a)Engine with VVTI
b)Better Power 2 Weight Ratio
c)Lower NVH
d)Longer Engine Life
e)Longer Service Cycles
f)Lower Service Costs
g)Cheaper Spares (Engine)

8 Vs 7 Seater

Pros for a 7 Seater

Captain Seats: Classy
Higher Price
Ergonomics: Armrests

Cons for a 7 Seater
Higher Road Tax
Less Change of people asking u for a hitch ( u also need to fold up the third row)
Not available in petrol at all
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Old 30th January 2008, 18:05   #2
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Quote:
The Petrol is attractive because:
a)Engine with VVTI
b)Better Power 2 Weight Ratio
c)Lower NVH
d)Longer Engine Life
e)Longer Service Cycles
f)Lower Service Costs
g)Cheaper Spares (Engine)
Its a myth that petrol engines last more then diesel.

The diesel is attractive because : -

Diesel is CRDi
Diesel has better torque to ratio.
More fun to drive, without being expensive.
More fuel efficiency.
Diesel costs cheaper then Petrol.
Resale value.
Parts more easily available, since petrol Innova's are very rare.
Can be Peted

A petrol Innova is just out of the question, it gives a FE of 6-7kmpl and combined with the cost of petrol being much, its not financially viable.

Last edited by BUSA : 30th January 2008 at 18:06.
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Old 30th January 2008, 19:19   #3
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Very good thread with excellant idea

Stage 1:

If person needs better NVH levels, easy and fun to drive, long lasting smooth engine, less visit to service shop, not bothered about resale value, not bothered about fuel bills then I suggest Petrol Innova which is simply best car I have seen so far.

If person clocks more than 20,000km per year and looking for lower fuel bills and not keeping the vehicle more than 4 years or 2 lacs kilometers (whichever comes first) then Diesel Innova makes sense.

Innova V spec is best one to choose because its loaded with features. I like and suggest 8 seator for family use and 7 seator Innova is suitable for taxy operators and corporates.

Stage 2:

Buying cost: After bargaining the discount on any variant Petrol one is 1+ lac. rs. cheaper than corresponding Diesel counterpart.

Stage 3:

Fuel cost: Every kilometer we can save 3 rs. from Diesel Innova.

Petrol (1+ lac savings while buying) and Diesel Innova cost will come to equal value once Petrol Innova clocks 37,000km. Here 33,000km (3 rs savings per kilometer from Diesel Innova) as Fuel Bill differance and 4000km as service/maintainance cost.

Diesel Innova needs service once in 6 months or 5000km where Petrol needs once in a year or 10,000km!

When Innova has covered 37,000km Petrol needs 2 free + 2 paid service where Diesel needs 2 free + 6 paid service so its nothing but 4 extra service for Diesel variant and hence 4X3000=12000/- rs. extra.

Stage 4:

TCO: 1 lac kilometer means 20 service for Deisel Innova and 10 service for Petrol Innova. Based on what I understood from Toyota person it would be at least 60,000/- for Diesel and 30,000/- for Petrol, it might be more than this for variants based how abused/circumstances we came across the vehicle/place. So per kilometer its 30 paisa for Petrol and 60 paisa for Diesel.

So in long run over all difference between cost of ownership of variants:

The below Fuel Bill + maintainance value might be slightly change based on individual but will be in this ratio.

Diesel: Fuel Bill + maintainance = 2.85 + 0.60 = 3.45 rs (Assumming 37 rs is diesel cost and avg FE 13)
Petrol: Fuel bill + maintainance = 5.91 + 0.30 = 6.21 rs (Assumming 52 rs is Petrol cost and avg FE 8.8)

PS: Average FE calculation: Petrol would give 7kmpl in city and 10.6kmpl in highway hence average FE is 8.8kmpl.
Diesel would give FE between 11 and 15 hence 13 is average FE.

Resale value: While buying Petrol innova we can see 2.2 lacs. difference between the price compared to Diesel ones.

Example: V spec. 2005 Diesel Innova trades at 8.2 lacs. where as V spec. 2005 Petrol innova at 6 lacs.

Regards,

Ravi.

Last edited by ravibhat : 30th January 2008 at 19:37.
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Old 30th January 2008, 19:35   #4
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Petrol vs Diesel -

i wouldnt take the petrol over the diesel.

the vibrations in both the engines are about the same. the gearshift is a little smoother in the petrol. the noise in the diesel is slightly more. not to say the petrol is as silent as maybe the corollas because the petrol engine is slightly loud for a petrol. the only time youd find a significant difference is when cruising at speeds of over 120kmph.

the fun to drive factor is subjective. id rate both equal but they are different. the petrol has more power and the diesel has more torque. so id say the diesel is easier to drive and it could be said that it is more fun to drive.

the fe in the diesel is about 10 in the city and 14-16 on highways whereas the petrol is 6-7 in the city and 9-11 on the highways. the diesel obviously wins here.

put the petes box in the diesel and without a doubt the diesel wins hands down. it can cruise at 140kmph and beat quite a few sedans to 100kmph (with petes box) and even the petrol innova.

7 vs 8 seater

if your not going to use 8 seats then its no point. the 7 seaters captain chairs are more comfortable than the bench.

the 7 seater is cheaper.

if registering from a company the 8 seater would need yellow plates.

the road tax is probably more on the 8 seater.
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Old 31st January 2008, 14:44   #5
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brilliant idea on real time comparison even for the future use.lets see how it turns out so that we can start of similar thread for all cars.but i expect some kind of moderation here because this is not expected to be a argument thread but a team -bhp opinion on deciding the pros and cons of a car.
ram
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Old 31st January 2008, 14:56   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btirthankar View Post
  • Stage 4.TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) (Assuming 1 Lakh Kms in 3 years)
based on the above assumption diesel should be the way to go.
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Old 31st January 2008, 15:14   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
[/list]based on the above assumption diesel should be the way to go.
, anybody planning to put behind him 1 Lakh kms in just 3 years would straight away choose the diesel, it's a no-brainer

Here is a simple Fuel cost calculation based on the average FE figures provided by ravibhat

100,000/8.8 kms = 11,364 liters of petrol X Rs.50/Liter= Rs.5,68,200

100,000/11 kms= = 9090 liters of diesel X Rs. 34/ Liter = Rs.3,09094

Fuel Saving over 3 years/1,00,000= Rs. ~2,60,000

And, if you take the additional servicing for the diesel, it would still save you some money.

Last edited by mobike008 : 31st January 2008 at 15:22.
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Old 31st January 2008, 18:14   #8
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Default What is peted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
Its a myth that petrol engines last more then diesel.

The diesel is attractive because : -

Can be Peted
.
Pls explain what is peted? Whats the cost of being 'peted'? and How does one do it?

Also explain longevity of diesels...with almost 3 times compression ratio and lower 'self'-life.
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Old 1st February 2008, 13:39   #9
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www.petes.in for more info on Pete's tuning box. It is a simple add-on that increases the BHP and torque of a vehicle. I am guessing a box for Innova would cost you around 25K.

Last edited by mobike008 : 1st February 2008 at 13:40.
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Old 1st February 2008, 13:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
www.petes.in for more info on Pete's tuning box. It is a simple add-on that increases the BHP and torque of a vehicle. I am guessing a box for Innova would cost you around 25K.
costs 30k.

see this

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/access...ir-filter.html
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Old 1st February 2008, 13:49   #11
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Default Some Direction

Okay guys,
  • We have clearly two schools of thought: Petrol and Diesel. So we classify:
    • User A = 15,000 kms p.a. = Petrol
    • User B = 30,000 Kms p.a. = Diesel
  1. Let us collaborate Dealer Discount Info (Citywise)
  2. I also add some more points on the benefits over sedans:
  • Innova has a Monocoque Body shell bolted on ladder chasis which is better for Indian Road Conditions.
  • It has a tall stance which is good for both visibility and 'being seen'.
  • It is an overall better package then most sedans when it comes to space
  • It has plush and exciting interiors (better than even Grand Vitara, CRV and Tuscon)
  • At its price it is giving dual benefits: Better than car, cheaper than CRV, Tuscon and Vitara)
Any update on a new version Innova as yet?
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Old 1st February 2008, 14:04   #12
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Dealer Discount is purely based on the month we buy and way the particular model is being sold. What I know is innova TOP End V spec is hot seller because its VFM package compared to its own other spec and other sednas and SUV/MUV.

During year end Toyota used to offer heavy discounts like 60,000/- and in January If they have previous year's models they used to offer 70,000/- to 1 lac discount with few free accessories.

At present i heard the way toyota used to give discount has come down but still we can expect similar discount if we bargain hard. The main reason for less discount and less advertisement now days from Toyota is because Innova is selling very well and new corolla is expected this year end so how best they market existing one they know it won't improve unless they reduce the price over 1 lac.

Coming topic discounts on Innova is purely City and dealer based. Minimum of 30,000 to 40,000 discounts we can expect.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 1st February 2008, 14:36   #13
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Hi,

> the 7 seaters captain chairs are more comfortable than the bench.

I did take a 100kms taxi trip to TD the Innova with me in the second row and wife and kid in the third row. It was an E version with only the front AC. We liked it.

When I bought I chose the V version for the ABS and wife chose the 7 seater for the captain's seats in the second row.

One long distance drive and my wife distinctly disliked the 2nd row captains seat as even for her 5 ft 4 inches frame did not give enough thigh support as the cushion was shorter than the one in front.

So check that factor. I think the bench seat cushion is bigger.
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Old 2nd February 2008, 20:02   #14
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Yes same thing I too noticed trrk I somehow didn't like 7 seator captain seat comfort it gives in long drive. Also it has bit low seating 2nd row as compared to 8 seator one. However few people like captain seat very much because it comes with arm rest etc.. which make the journey comfortable.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 3rd February 2008, 00:10   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
However few people like captain seat very much because it comes with arm rest etc..
Even the 8 seater has a arm rest.

Quote:
We have clearly two schools of thought: Petrol and Diesel. So we classify:
  • User A = 15,000 kms p.a. = Petrol
  • User B = 30,000 Kms p.a. = Diesel
Is it necessary that which fuel to be used is judged by how many kms. Frankly i have bought a diesel Innova and running is around 10k kms per annum.

Also read the following post from another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I will never recover the cost of my solar water heater in reduced electricity (though I would use a lot less hot water if it was heated electrically).

I doubt that I'll recover the cost of my Zero-B water purifier in not buying canned water.

I don't, according to the theory, do nearly enough driving to financially support the decision to buy a diesel.

It's not all about balancing the books.

I had, when we renovated this house, some money to spend on toys, and did so. I wanted the diesel experience, and never really considered the petrol Swift.

Its about experience, choice, pride of ownership, pleasure.
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