Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd December 2009, 23:49   #226
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 886
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

No. absolutely no movement on that front. I guess they will only call me on 25th Dec to tell me that vehicle will be registered on 27th and delivered by 29th / 30th so that i can take it to new year party enjoy it for the day and then it would be an year old model.
too much agonising this silence is .

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
Did you get any update on delivery date ?
shatrughna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 00:01   #227
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shatrughna View Post
No. absolutely no movement on that front. I guess they will only call me on 25th Dec to tell me that vehicle will be registered on 27th and delivered by 29th / 30th so that i can take it to new year party enjoy it for the day and then it would be an year old model.
too much agonising this silence is .
I am in the same boat. The dealer is talking about January but no dates! He says that the production hasn't started for facelifted (with airbags) scorps.
hondadude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 10:57   #228
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,886
Thanked: 334 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shatrughna View Post
No. absolutely no movement on that front. I guess they will only call me on 25th Dec to tell me that vehicle will be registered on 27th and delivered by 29th / 30th so that i can take it to new year party enjoy it for the day and then it would be an year old model.
too much agonising this silence is .
How about pricing ? Has the different pricing on the website and dealers list been sorted out ? Who was correct ?
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 11:55   #229
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
How about pricing ? Has the different pricing on the website and dealers list been sorted out ? Who was correct ?
I don't think it matters right now since price at the time of delivery is applicable. So, when we are close to the delivery date, we will sort that one out
hondadude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 15:21   #230
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

I downloaded the Scorpio brochure to check on the specs. I am trying to understand the special drive modes in Scorpio.

Name:  AVPageView 1252009 31404 PM.jpg
Views: 2110
Size:  78.0 KB

What happens in W mode? Does it have on-demand 4WD or TCS?

What happens in M mode? How does it work like the engine braking of traditional diesel?

The 4WD in the AT mode, is it like normal 4WD or non-demand like in CR-V?
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 16:03   #231
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,025 Times
Default

@Samurai-

W or the Winter mode limits the torque to the driven wheels to prevent slippage in slippary conditions. This mode is made for driving in snow with automatic transmission where you cannot slip the clutch unlike a manual transmission to control slippage.

M mode is like a sport mode in Scorpio auto where the gearbox holds a gear till redline, also very helpful when coming down on hilly roads.

The 4wd in Scorpio is normal one as used in the manual version with 2H, 4H and 4L modes. It uses the same electric shift on fly borg warner transfer case as in M/T. I wish Scorpio Auto 4wd was offered with more modes like 2,3 and overdrive button to give more control in offroading scenarios as seen in the new Endeavour auto.

The Scorpio Auto when driven in D mode with light foot shift quite early at ~2000rpm making it very fuel efficient. The only issue of concern with this car is the midcorner confusion of the gearbox at times, so when in mood for spirited driving M mode is recommended.

Hope you find the information useful.

Last edited by .anshuman : 5th December 2009 at 16:06.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 16:38   #232
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

Thanks Anshuman, good to know 4WD works same as the manual version.

However, my questions about W and M mode are still open.

W mode: I am still not clear about this. Is the winter mode achieved by active traction control system or passive limited slip differential? I didn't understand your snow driving analogy. I have done extensive snow driving (50,000+ kms), but only on FWD auto-transmission cars, what is this clutch slipping business in snow, how does it help?

M mode: Engine braking is normally associated with low rpms, where no throttle is given. So shouldn't that be opposite... can't be same as sport mode. I currently own my 5th auto-transmission car, so I understand the 1 or 2 mode, instead we have M mode in that position. I guess it is safe to assume M is a high-torque gear which won't shift automatically.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 17:04   #233
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,025 Times
Default

In W mode the Torque to driven wheels is limited permanently unlike TCS where torque is only limited when slippage is detected, all the wheels get equal torque unlike with LSD.

In M mode the autobox does not shift early, when going downhill the box wont auto upshift holding a lower gear suitable for engine braking.

Engine braking can also be done at any rpm as long as enough torque is available, lower gears are recommended to maintain control while driving downhill.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 17:25   #234
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In W mode the Torque to driven wheels is limited permanently unlike TCS where torque is only limited when slippage is detected, all the wheels get equal torque unlike with LSD.
So W mode is neither like TCS nor LSD. I am thoroughly confused now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In M mode the autobox does not shift early, when going downhill the box wont auto upshift holding a lower gear suitable for engine braking.
Similar to 1 or 2 mode in AT. That makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Engine braking can also be done at any rpm as long as enough torque is available
However, does the rpm remain high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
lower gears are recommended to maintain control while driving downhill.
This is driving common sense. Very applicable to offroad situtations. I generally use the same gear for climbing and descending a given hill, in both onroad and offroad situations.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 18:05   #235
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

My Landcruiser had a Winter mode. Basically it starts of the car in second gear to reduce torque to the wheel and prevent spin out of the wheels.

M is same as Sport. Since you cannot manually shift a scorpio automatic it will be programmed to shift at an optimal rpm that is balanced between power and mileage. The M mode will let you drive with full power at the cost of mileage. Think of it this way, when you drive a manual you can shift normally at about 2000 rpm, but if you want to test your 0-100 times or drive really fast, you want to go to the red-line or close before you upshift. The M mode lets you do this.

I am not sure how this works in a down hill situation as if the transmission is in 6th gear then it wont' redline until you actually go off the road and drive down the slope of the hill so I don't understand how M will help with down hill.

I am curious to know how a scorpio auto can be driven down a steep slope without burning out the brakes. In a manual car, you would come down steep slopes in first or second. This can be done in my santro automatic by putting it in to L (Holds in first gear) or L2 (Holds in Second gear). In a tiptronic, you can put it into tiptronic mode to hold the right gear when coming down hill.

How the hell do you do this in a Scorpio automatic which has neigher the L, L2, L3 feature or tiptronic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In M mode the autobox does not shift early, when going downhill the box wont auto upshift holding a lower gear suitable for engine braking.

Engine braking can also be done at any rpm as long as enough torque is available, lower gears are recommended to maintain control while driving downhill.
This will only work if the Scorpio senses that you are going down hill. Let us look at this example. You are coming down the slopes a hill station in M mode. You start of down hill the 1st gear holds till you get to redline and shifts to 2nd. This goes on until you hit 6th down the hills and you are doing a 100+ (suicidal). You basically will have to control the Scopio auto only on brakes coming down hill. The M mode will help you to prevent speed build up fast but it will not let you control like holding a gear in L, L2 mode.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 5th December 2009 at 18:09.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 18:48   #236
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
This will only work if the Scorpio senses that you are going down hill. Let us look at this example. You are coming down the slopes a hill station in M mode. You start of down hill the 1st gear holds till you get to redline and shifts to 2nd. This goes on until you hit 6th down the hills and you are doing a 100+ (suicidal). You basically will have to control the Scopio auto only on brakes coming down hill. The M mode will help you to prevent speed build up fast but it will not let you control like holding a gear in L, L2 mode.
It is not like one shouldn't use brakes at all when coming downhill.

Let us take the example of manual transmission. Say you are coming a steep downhill slope in first gear and car gathers speed and rpm shoots up, what do you do?

I would think that using a combination of brakes and M mode should help negotiate long downhill slopes.
hondadude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 19:32   #237
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 172
Thanked: 62 Times
Default

In W mode, the AT skips the first gear (and may be the second gear too). It is basically meant for driving in snow (winters). So basically it means that lot of clutch and less of excessive torque so that you get maximum traction
wanderhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 22:48   #238
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
It is not like one shouldn't use brakes at all when coming downhill.
I am not saying you should not use brakes, but sometimes when you are travelling a long distance down, for example when coming down from Ooty to Mettupalayam or Ooty to Masnagudi it's a long way and if you come down on your brakes you will burn them out by the time you get down the hill. Typically you a combination of engine braking and brakes. But with Scorpio automatic, engine braking doesn't exist. Rather it may slow the car to the point of redline and then upshift increasing your speed downhill and keep doing that till you are in 6th gear. So with a Scorpio automatic you will be mostly stopping the car with your brakes. If you are not driving regularly in the hills you are fine. But I go to Ooty on work quite regularly and won't be comfortable without using some engine braking when coming down hill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
Let us take the example of manual transmission. Say you are coming a steep downhill slope in first gear and car gathers speed and rpm shoots up, what do you do?

I would think that using a combination of brakes and M mode should help negotiate long downhill slopes.
When you use engine braking as mentioned above your brakes are assisting but most of the load is taking by the engine. M is not an engine brake, it is more for spirited driving when you want to put pedal to the metal. It is not meant to slow you down in a slope. When you are coming down a steep slope the car will build up momentum and redline fairly quick and the scorp will upshift. So how is this engine braking? Car will continue to build momentum albeit but at a slower pace than regular mode. If the transmission had a tiptronic or L, L2, L3 feature you could have used those modes to come down and control your speed with engine braking and your regular brakes.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 22:57   #239
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
When you use engine braking as mentioned above your brakes are assisting but most of the load is taking by the engine. M is not an engine brake, it is more for spirited driving when you want to put pedal to the metal. It is not meant to slow you down in a slope. When you are coming down a steep slope the car will build up momentum and redline fairly quick and the scorp will upshift. So how is this engine braking? Car will continue to build momentum albeit but at a slower pace than regular mode. If the transmission had a tiptronic or L, L2, L3 feature you could have used those modes to come down and control your speed with engine braking and your regular brakes.
My understanding of 'M' mode based on my test drive of Scorpio automatic is that it doesn't shift into next gear till it practically redlines. So, if we are coming down on a slope it is not going to shift in the next gear till it red-lines (and that will provide some engine braking). One can tap on breaks when scorp is about to redline and thus this combination of engine braking and brakes should suffice.

I think we are saying the same thing about using engine braking and brakes. I think we differ on our assumptions about whether Scorp AT provides engine braking while going downhill in M mode.
hondadude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2009, 23:29   #240
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,025 Times
Default

To say it in simple words-

D mode is Economy+Normal use mode, the car upshift early to reduce fuel consumption and to provide comfortable cruising

M is power/sport mode where the box holds a gear till redline to provide maximum acceleration.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scorpio VLX mhawk 4WD with Air Bags EDIT - 43000 kms update 4x4addict Long-Term Ownership Reviews 110 11th April 2013 16:16
1996 TLC Prado or 2011 Scorpio VLX 4WD kamal.sn SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 15 2nd February 2011 06:24
Scorpio VLX 4WD finally arrived home !!!! ankaps Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 30 17th December 2010 10:28
Scorpio Vlx or Bolero Vlx vraghuz SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 22 6th July 2010 22:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:05.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks