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Old 28th January 2009, 19:37   #16
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Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
When I was in Bay Area, I used to own Subaru Outback (which is AWD). Every time we traveled to Lake Tahoe in winters (for skiing), we didn't have to put snow chains while normal sedans had to (depending on snow conditions, for severe conditions even AWD needed chains but we never ran into those).

Subaru inspired a lot of confidence when driving on snow. I could see big 4X4s skidding sometimes but my Subaru never did skid.

So while AWD/4X4 may not help to get the car moving after heavy snow, once you are on the road, it really helps.
I own Subaru Forester (AWD) and have driven in extreme snow conditions in Japan. IMHO, AWD doesnít help when the tiers get their grooves packed with snow. There is simply no traction and the car just skids. It is simply dangerous to drive without chains or snow-tyres. May be there is some benefit of AWD when you are starting but I always put the chains before I start.

Traction is the key. This is personal experience.

OT. In my very first post on TBHP, I had mentioned about driving my Forester without chains but that was only in mild snow conditions. I have learnt this is not true after driving in extreme snow conditions.
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Old 28th January 2009, 19:38   #17
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i guess so a vehicle with traction control is more than enough to handle snow +4wd or awd ..
wait a while mahindra's doin something with the scorpio maybe a better auto..
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Old 28th January 2009, 20:07   #18
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After living through nine New Jersey winters including many trips to upstate NY during winters, I have realised that it is just a question of choice. You want to spin 2 wheels or 4 wheels.

As bliss_now mentioned, traction is the key. During snow you need to totally alter your driving style to retain traction all the time. Never touch the brakes if you are on even an inch of snow. Of course, rules change if you are snow chains or using ice&snow tyres. I always used to plan my stops and turns ahead of time if I am on fresh snow or uncleared roads. Once the treads of the your highway tyre is packed, you tyres become slicks and doesn't matter whether it is 2WD or 4WD. Don't confuse on-road snow driving with offroading in slushy mud, it is very different.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic. This thread is not really about snow driving.
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Old 30th January 2009, 23:06   #19
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i dont think mahindra offers a 4x4 AT mHawk. the mHawk is not sold with 4x4 now, may come out in few months, as someone said.

i suggest you buy a manual scorpio mHawk. the torquey nature of the engine means gearshifts are not frequent. the clutch is really soft & you should not face a problem. yes, the gear stick vibrates a bit and the throw though accurate, is long. even if you are really keen on a 4WD, go for the scorpio CRDe 4x4.

avoid the safari, its not the most reliable SUVs around.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 30th January 2009 at 23:08.
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Old 31st January 2009, 07:21   #20
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As GTO says, Scorp's pricing is steep for what they offer in India!
However, I found that maintenance/running costs of scorp are much less than that of a safari(My dad is a die hard fan of safari!, so we end up having both in our house). There are fewer hassles/niggles with Scorp compared to safari.
Peace of mind: for sure it is a scorpio for me.....My two cents
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Old 31st January 2009, 16:00   #21
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
If you need a vehicle with creature comfirts and 4WD may I suggest you safari EX 4WD or even better safari Vx 4WD with Airbags which is more important then Auto transmission and cruise control on Indian roads.About niggles yes some safaris have them but so does some Scorpios.
Why do we start the Scorp - Safari war on all the threads. If he is asking opinion about Scorpio, he surely would have compared with Safari and then made up his mind.

IMHO we should suggest keeping the topic in mind.
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Old 31st January 2009, 16:27   #22
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Originally Posted by sudeepbu View Post
I test drove the AT Scorpio 2-3 months back. Found it quite noisy even at low speeds. M&M needs to do some more work on this version.
I agree with this.
Scorpio Vlx AT was released on sep 25 or around that date and I got a call from Mahindra showroom in hyderabad for a test drive and I did a test drive.It hasnt got anything other than some new sensors like automatic vipers and reversing sensor.And the showroom representative was telling me that the brake issue they had with scorpio in the previous versions did not get right in this version also.

And mainly the price tag which is 10+,in hyderabad,on road it would cost me 13.1Lakh inclusive of all taxes,scorpio is not worthy for an investment of 10+ lakh.8Lakhs-9Lakhs will be the best budget for scorpio and the new mHawk engine is not so good and I dont say it's bad.It's just near to good.
I think you need to wait for better version of Scorpio and any other improvements in the mHawk engine.
I would suggest you to buy a Safari, even though not fuel efficient, but it is 100 times far better than a scorpio and worthy for it's price.Dicor engine is farway better than mHawk engine.And there is no scorpio available with 4WD only safari and endeavour.
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Old 31st January 2009, 17:33   #23
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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Confirm whether M&M actually have such an offering! In my experience, M&M dealers give loads of wrong info about the 4WD as they rarely sell one! Call up their toll free number and speak to Sales directly.
Koncept Safdarjang, New Delhi's salesperson Danish (9999010114) says a Scorpio A/T 4WD will be coming in for delivery to a customer on order in 10 days' time. He's supposed to call me over for a TD then. Will keep you posted about this.
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Old 31st January 2009, 18:15   #24
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Originally Posted by BmwAddict View Post
Dicor engine is farway better than mHawk engine.
Dear BmwAddit,

What is difference between "Dicor engine" and "mHawk engine"?

I'm assuming you have done some research and may be you can help me understand.
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Old 31st January 2009, 18:45   #25
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amitk26:

I absolutely have to disagree with your regarding 4x4 and AT. My LC 100 was an automatic with 4x4, Low range and Diff lock. How does it make it any less capable than a Manual LC with the same hardware? The only one point, I would concede is that with a clutch it is easier to modulate power to the wheels than with an automatic. With the automatic you only have the accelerator to modulate power, wheras for the manual you can use a combination of clutch and accelerator to fine tune the power you want to send to the wheel in certain situation, but for the most part at AT with 4x4 will perform the same as the same model with MT and 4x4.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
After living through nine New Jersey winters including many trips to upstate NY during winters, I have realised that it is just a question of choice. You want to spin 2 wheels or 4 wheels.
I hear you bro. I am living through one of those now !!. Last week was really bad. Should have seen the number of vehicles parked on the turnpike guard rails. On Wed morning the snow was packed so high since the snow plows hadn't got there yet and even with 4x4 I could barely keep the lane. When all four wheels loose traction the 4Wheel drive is only as good as a no wheel drive.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 1st February 2009 at 16:39. Reason: Consecutive Posts
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Old 31st January 2009, 20:37   #26
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Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
Dear BmwAddit,

What is difference between "Dicor engine" and "mHawk engine"?

I'm assuming you have done some research and may be you can help me understand.
both the dicor engine as well as mHawk engine share identical architecture. the common rail system for the safari dicor is sourced from delphi whereas bosch provides the system for the scorpio mHawk.
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Old 1st February 2009, 14:49   #27
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Originally Posted by BmwAddict View Post
.And there is no scorpio available with 4WD only safari and endeavour.
Er... not quite true. I own one. So do Anup and Razor4077 out here. Was also just looking at pics of a certain grey 4x4 Scorp CRDe taking part in the Munnar OTR on another thread.

It may not be the best offroader, but it can hold its own once you are used to its handling.

On a recent trip back from the hills, we got stuck in this huge traffic jam before Garmukteshwar (Ganga bridge). At one point, I got off the highway into the paddy field area, where there was a sandy trail and made quite some distance up to the bridge. Then to get back up, I switched into 4wd-High, drove over a sandy bund, stopped, switched to 4wd low and made it up the steep incline, back up on to the highway with no sweat.

Seeing me get up, a Mahindra Max pick up (2wd) tried the same. Poor chap, got beached with the rear wheels spinning away and many guys pushing to get it out. He must have been wondering how a Scorp made it up, while he couldn't .

Some of the few benefits of having 4wd on tap.

One point though, after that bit of 4x4 use, the front hubs remained locked. So after a few kms driving, when I got a bit of clear road, I zipped ahead. Stopped. Quickly backed up a few metres to unlock them. And then carried on. The truck I had just overtaken a minute before, must have been wondering what this crazy chap was up to!

Cheers,
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Old 1st February 2009, 15:09   #28
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Originally Posted by WanderNomad View Post
If he is asking opinion about Scorpio, he surely would have compared with Safari and then made up his mind.
True. Two reasons I dropped the Safari from my list of choices:
1. It's bigger and wider than the Scorpio. 4650 mm vs. 4495 mm - a full 6 inches more in length; 1918 mm vs. 1817 mm - 4 inches wider. I have an issue of limited parking space (most of us in Delhi do), and when it comes to maintaining peace with your neighbours, size matters.
2. I believe the Scorpio is more reliable than the Safari in terms of build quality. My travels need me not to lose sleep over what's going to fall out, what's rattling, why the smoke from my tailpipe, and is the service centre trying to dupe me. My 3+ years' experience of owning an Indica V2 DLS has left me with quite a bitter taste in my mouth, and I would be glad not to get into the same soup again.
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Old 1st February 2009, 15:32   #29
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One point though, after that bit of 4x4 use, the front hubs remained locked. So after a few kms driving, when I got a bit of clear road, I zipped ahead. Stopped. Quickly backed up a few metres to unlock them. And then carried on. The truck I had just overtaken a minute before, must have been wondering what this crazy chap was up to!
Didn't understand this bit. Roshun mind explaining please
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Old 1st February 2009, 17:01   #30
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Didn't understand this bit. Roshun mind explaining please
MileCruncher, that's how it is: Once you engage the 4WD mode and the front hubs lock into place, they will not automatically withdraw on getting back into 2WD mode, although the DRIVE to the front wheels is cut off.
To dis-engage the front hubs you need to reverse a metre or two and then proceed ahead again.
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