Force Gama - A few questions

[Strangerintown]

If there is so much confusion about the product before the sale is made, I shudder to think of the possibilities that the vehicle could have to endure in the workshop post sales! Maybe its all for the good that the Gama deal fell through!

Funny thing about the Gurkha though. Previously all information on these boards suggested that the delivery period for the Gurkha was tending to infinity and a little beyond and now Force Motors is almost offering it Ex Stock!

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Strangerintown

Funny thing about the Gurkha though. Previously all information on these boards suggested that the delivery period for the Gurkha was tending to infinity and a little beyond and now Force Motors is almost offering it Ex Stock!

I was told by someone in Force that when they get sufficient bookings, they make a batch of them. So it is possible that there are vehicles available from the most recent production run.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Guess you see my point now..... I think your best bet is to negotiate a price on the Grande or the Xylo.

Yes, Force Motors' attitude is quite disappointing. If it were not for the dealer's persuasion...... anyway, waiting for the Xylo to be launched in my town - expected next week. Sumo Grande is on the waiting list, both my parents are not keen on that vehicle.

Originally Posted by Strangerintown

Maybe its all for the good that the Gama deal fell through!

Yep, maybe it is for the best. All's well that end's well. But I did have quite an experience

Originally Posted by Strangerintown

Funny thing about the Gurkha though. Previously all information on these boards suggested that the delivery period for the Gurkha was tending to infinity and a little beyond and now Force Motors is almost offering it Ex Stock!

The dealer said he can deliver a Gurkha in 5 days. They have ready stock. So if someone is interested, you can negotiate a nice deal on the Gurkha now. Here the ex-showroom price is around Rs 7.7L and I think you can negotiate 50K or so off of that.

Cheers
Teja

[amitk26]

Hi,

I would say good riddance of GAMA , I have no personal experience of owning one but if this is the attitude of sales Imagine the service exp. Also FORCE moters website tout some paint process as a feature but most of the FORCE vehicles and only GAMA I have seen on road till now were badly rusted.
About Grande, looks are subjective if some one can like boxy GAMA or toothy Xylo , Grande is surely lovable .

Here is a flower horn chiclid looks like Xylo to me

[rhandle]

With my talks from Force dealer here, they say that the BS III engine same as Gurkha can be given but the vehicle price wud bump up by 40K.

[vinod_nookala]

Dear Teja,
Just bumped on this thread, and nice to know you are from my home town visakhapatnam!:-)))

I have had my share of bad experience with the force dealer in the industrial estate area. I dont know if you visited the same dealer as he is more than 2 years in business. Way too rude truly of commercial roots. May be i was dealing with wrong employee there.

You did not tell about your basic requirements apart fom space.

1.What is the top speed you are looking at?
2.What are the places you plan to travel to visit often?
3.Do you have wandrer instincts in you? If yes then not picking up option will always make you feel " if i had 4wd then....."!

4. Will you always be driving with 7 people on?


If you have a true wanderlust with relaxed kind of drive style, then you should still look at Gama. This is a no non sense vehicle with plenty of character, doesnot make you feel giddy like others in the segment. However refinement is the last thing you will have though most of it is manageable. Highways will take too long to end.

Sumo grande is good but since it is a TATA expect fair share of problems. I know not all TATA's are same but you will have to rely on your luck a bit too much. Barring the luck factor it will provide you every thing without a 4x4.

Bolero Plus i will not recommend you as this looks too commercial and doesnt have a character of the original bolero. Will do most of what you want without a 4wd capability. This is a slow machine, but again it depends on yur driving style

Xylo comes top of my list to recommend you.
Xlyo has-
1. Space (legroom in all rows)
2. Nice A/C & confort (A/c for all rows & better seats)
3. looks ok
4. Is new kid on the block unlike others in the contention (has better brand recognition)
5. strong engine (tried and tested engine & most powerful)
6. Good suspension (all coil suspension)
7. Can pass of as an SUV in E6 version with roof rails
8. plenty of ground clearance for bad roads (about 186 mm bet only by gama @ 220 mm)
9. better mahindra service is an advantage (is more customer friend;y)
10. You will get a 4x4 version if you book after 6 months.


Rugged feel with manageable comfort - GAMA
Plenty of discount & love for TATA- Sumo Grande
All round performer (OK looks)- Xylo

regards vinod

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by rhandle

With my talks from Force dealer here, they say that the BS III engine same as Gurkha can be given but the vehicle price wud bump up by 40K.

That is what my dealer first told me too. But when I insisted that he mention the same on the booking receipt he wanted to check with the Factory and that is when we found out that the Gurkha engine is no longer offered on Gama or Toofan. If you download the latest GAMA brochure from the Force website, you will not find the 75HP Gurkha engine as an option anymore.

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Dear Teja, Just bumped on this thread, and nice to know you are from my home town visakhapatnam!:-)))

It is a small world indeed. Pleased to make your acquaintance Vinod.

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

I have had my share of bad experience with the force dealer .... May be i was dealing with wrong employee there.

The dealer is Mahalakshmi Motors in Sheela Nagar. They said that they are newly appointed in 2007. The previous dealer - Sehgal Motors - is no longer in business. I've found the people at Mahalakshmi very courteous and helpful.

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

You did not tell about your basic requirements apart fom space.

Well basically the vehicle should be able to take the entire family on a outing without too much fuss - that is 5 adults + Driver (sometimes), 2 children, 4 dogs and accompanying luggage. The vehicle should be able to take some abuse and not fall apart.

Not too keen on high-speed. As long as it can sustain 80 - 90 kmph on the highways and handles decently, we are good. I wouldn't feel safe traveling with my family at higher speeds in a big vehicle without ABS. Most of our destinations are within 4-5 hrs drive.

We go to remote beaches (the Fiesta has too many dings & scratches from these excursions), interior of Srikakulam to visit our native place, mango gardens in Vizianagaram etc. Most of these places have dirt roads or pathetically pot-holed roads. High-ground clearance is a must.

4. Will you always be driving with 7 people on?

Currently we go out about twice a month, but that is because we do not have proper vehicle and someone has to stay back. With a suitable vehicle we would go out more frequently.... I hope. We have a Santro & Fiesta for regular in-town use.

As for 4WD - it is one of those "Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it" things. I would like to get a 4WD vehicle if at all possible, but it looks very unlikely looking at the options available. For ex, we usually have to park about half a km away from the beach for fear that the Fiesta would get stuck in the sand. With a 4WD vehicle we could get a lot closer, if not right up to the water line. And it would also open up other destinations which are currently not even considered.

We drive quite relaxed, stopping wherever we feel like. For me the drive is as much a part of the trip as the destination. We are not looking for too many creature comforts. AC is the only must-have comfort feature. PS would be nice to have on a vehicle this size. All the rest - PW, Keyless Entry, Computerised displays etc are not needed. I would very much prefer a vehicle with good ride quality for my aged parents sake, but there seems to be very little choice in this respect within my budget.

Xylo comes top of my list to recommend you.....
10. You will get a 4x4 version if you book after 6 months.

Yes, XYLO would be a nice fit - especially if t came with 4WD. Unfortunately no Xylo yet in Vizag. I just visited the dealer again today morning (very near my house) and now he is saying it will be end of March before it is launched here, and he also said that they are going to increase the prices by about 50K.

We are currently looking at getting a used (2007) Bolero XL with AC as a stop-gap arrangement and postpone the purchase to next year - by which time Xylo should be available with 4WD.

Thanks for you interest. I will post here when we finally get a vehicle.

Teja

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

Well basically the vehicle should be able to take the entire family on a outing without too much fuss - that is 5 adults + Driver (sometimes), 2 children, 4 dogs and accompanying luggage. The vehicle should be able to take some abuse and not fall apart.

Not too keen on high-speed. As long as it can sustain 80 - 90 kmph on the highways and handles decently, we are good. I wouldn't feel safe traveling with my family at higher speeds in a big vehicle without ABS. Most of our destinations are within 4-5 hrs drive.

We go to remote beaches (the Fiesta has too many dings & scratches from these excursions), interior of Srikakulam to visit our native place, mango gardens in Vizianagaram etc. Most of these places have dirt roads or pathetically pot-holed roads. High-ground clearance is a must.

Your above requirements scream Innova , As you are OK with used Bolero XL and considering it an option why not a used Innova ? you should easily get a good one for around 6 Lakhs +/- some amount 4x4 requirement is not fulfilled by either of them but i do not see why you would need that ever , i am sure you would not like to do beach driving with 7 people on board in your 4x4 and can compromise on parking 500 meters away.
Personally I liked Safari from drivability and power point of view but it does not fullfill your 7 people + 4 dogs requiremnt.

[Spitfire]

4 Dogs?? Ok get a Winger or a Tempo Trax. Anything smaller and the poor dogs will be tortured.

[vinod_nookala]

The dealer is Mahalakshmi Motors in Sheela Nagar. They said that they are newly appointed in 2007. The previous dealer - Sehgal Motors - is no longer in business. I've found the people at Mahalakshmi very courteous and helpful.

Thats a good news

entire family on a outing without too much fuss - that is 5 adults + Driver (sometimes), 2 children, 4 dogs and accompanying luggage. The vehicle should be able to take some abuse and not fall apart.

I feel GAMA 4wd with A/C and Power steering is the best option!! Will take care of your above requirement. Sumo grande cannot take abuse, Xylo fits the requirement though!

As long as it can sustain 80 - 90 kmph on the highways and handles decently, we are good.

Well all the options you consider can do this, and GAMA too can do this even with 60 hp engine, but will be louder!!

We go to remote beaches (the Fiesta has too many dings & scratches from these excursions), interior of Srikakulam to visit our native place, mango gardens in Vizianagaram etc. Most of these places have dirt roads or pathetically pot-holed roads. High-ground clearance is a must.

No other vehicle other than GAMA/ Cruiser Classic can match the requirement here. Space plus ruggedness, nothing comes close to this except other mahindras like Maxx festerra. But no A/C here and p/s is not provided as an option! Maxx Tx looks are subject to individual liking which is offered with 4wd, nut no 4wd in festera that comes with IFS.

I

would like to get a 4WD vehicle if at all possible, but it looks very unlikely looking at the options available. For ex, we usually have to park about half a km away from the beach for fear that the Fiesta would get stuck in the sand. With a 4WD vehicle we could get a lot closer,

No option other than GAMA as it is a combination of space, ruggedness with 4wd!!!. Xylo cannot mach offroadability of GAMA due to its low GC and poor departure angle despite good engine power!

We are not looking for too many creature comforts. AC is the only must-have comfort feature. PS would be nice to have on a vehicle this size.

GAMA fits the bill here too...

I would very much prefer a vehicle with good ride quality for my aged parents sake, but there seems to be very little choice in this respect within my budget.

GAMA could be a little high for your parents to get in and out! But on ride comfort it will match the Xylo and handles better than that!

Yes, XYLO would be a nice fit - especially if t came with 4WD.

Dont trust Mahindra too much on this. India is the last market where they will launch a 4wd that too in a Xylo!! So, they will take time...may be more than 6 months!!

We are currently looking at getting a used (2007) Bolero XL with AC as a stop-gap arrangement

Thats a good choice, then graduating to GAMA will not be a tough!!:-))) GAMA 4wd will fit all your requirements plus it is cheaper than most options!!...Think again!!

cheers
vinod

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

We are currently looking at getting a used (2007) Bolero XL with AC as a stop-gap arrangement and postpone the purchase to next year - by which time Xylo should be available with 4WD.

If you are compromising on the 4WD, why not check out the Tempo Traveller? You'd be with Force Motors still!

I'm not sure about this but they might also be able to offer the double rear wheels option, which circumvents the 4WD requirement to a great extent!

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Your above requirements scream Innova , As you are OK with used Bolero XL and considering it an option why not a used Innova?

We did consider the Innova - infact it was my parents first choice. But....
a) not as much space inside as one would expect
b) ground clearance still a tad short for my purposes - took a friends Innova to our farm on the city outskirts and the undercarriage was struck several times on the way - my friend was not happy
c) too expensive for me to buy new
d) unable to find a decently used Innova (around 50000 KM) at a decent price in my town

Originally Posted by Spitfire

4 Dogs?? Ok get a Winger or a Tempo Trax. Anything smaller and the poor dogs will be tortured.

Well, they are dachshunds ('wiener dogs' for the americanized) so they are not big. But four of them together do need quite some room. My first choice was the Gama (Trax) which is why I started this thread. Unfortunately Force doesn't seem to have much interest in selling me a vehicle.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

If you are compromising on the 4WD, why not check out the Tempo Traveller?

Traveller - you mean the MiniBUS... no no no, that won't do at all. Everyone in my family, including my 3 year old kid, only want an SUV with the classic-look - a nice long hood, good stance with reasonable ground clearance, the spare-wheel mounted on the rear-door etc etc. But, yes, I understand where you are coming from. A Winger or Traveller or similar vehicle would make sense to our situation.

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

I feel GAMA 4wd with A/C and Power steering is the best option!!

GAMA too can do this even with 60 hp engine, but will be louder!!

No other vehicle other than GAMA/ Cruiser Classic can match the requirement here.

No option other than GAMA as it is a combination of space, ruggedness with 4wd!!!

GAMA fits the bill here too...

GAMA could be a little high for your parents to get in and out! But on ride comfort it will match the Xylo and handles better than that!

GAMA 4wd will fit all your requirements plus it is cheaper than most options!!...Think again!!

Vinod, nice to see you pushing the GAMA. Force should hire people like you (and Gurkha & rhandle & Samurai...) to promote its vehicles. I chose the GAMA for exactly all the reasons you have mentioned. But as you know GAMA is not available with 4WD + AC + PS. It is either AC+PS or 4WD.

Also, I didn't find the GAMA any cheaper than the other options. The best pricing that the dealer could give me on a GAMA with 4WD (BS-II 60hp engine) is 6.2L ex-showroom, that comes to around 7.2L on-road. And then I will have to add AC and other creature comforts and maybe re-do the seats, which will bring the total close to 8L - and I couldn't justify the expense. And even if I could, I would still have to wait 2 months to get the vehicle.

If you think that I could get a better deal on the GAMA 4WD elsewhere, or if you know of any used GAMA or JUDO 4WD in good condition. Do let me know, I remain interested.

Cheers
Teja

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

Bolero Plus - Underpowered, expensive, 2 months waiting for AC + PS option
Sumo Victa - Crude & underpowered

You were OK with Tempo Trax but you find the Sumo to be crude and underpowered?
Sumo TCIC is a rocket in comparison.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by Mpower

You were OK with Tempo Trax but you find the Sumo to be crude and underpowered? Sumo TCIC is a rocket in comparison.

Sorry if that comment didn't agree with you. I was comparing it with the 75HP engine of GAMA - the same as that in Gurkha. By all user accounts, this engine is quicker and more refined than the ~60 hp engines in the Bolero & Sumo.

Also, I am not sure what the TCIC engine is - the sales guy said that the Victa comes in two versions IDI & DI, and they had only the DI for test drive. I will say that it was louder and harsher than the Trax Toofan engine - and that is saying something cause I drove the Toofan with no-AC and windows down, while in the Sumo the AC was on and the windows were up. The sales guy said that the IDI engine is much smoother and quieter, but I never got to drive it.

From what I gleamed from my readings here at Team-BHP, most Mahindra engines have their origins in tractor engines and most TATA engines have their origins in truck engines - and a part of the origin shows in the character of MUV engines like those found in Major, Bolero (non-CRDe), Sumo Victa etc. While the Force MUV engines are based on the Mercedes OM616 engine and are relatively smoother. Again this opinion was formed based on other users' reviews & experiences, my direct experience with these vehicles is very limited to non-existent.

If you feel that I ruled out the Sumo Victa too soon, then please suggest what configuration I should be looking for and I would be happy to revisit the showroom. I planning to drop by there today anyway and see if they got any info on the new Xenon XT 4x4....

Cheers
Teja

[vinod_nookala]

It is either AC+PS or 4WD.....Also, I didn't find the GAMA any cheaper than the other options. The best pricing that the dealer could give me on a GAMA with 4WD (BS-II 60hp engine) is 6.2L ex-showroom, that comes to around 7.2L on-road. And then I will have to add AC and other creature comforts and maybe re-do the seats, which will bring the total close to 8L

, Now on further evaluation, how about a bolero slx 4wd? This will seat about 7 in moderate comfort, A/C is a strong point in bolero and in SLX version you get all the bells & wistles! Now about your dogs, put them on in an attached trailer true american camping style!! Bolero for that price would be a luxury vehicle in comparison!! It has 72 bhp refined Xdp engine, all creature comforts, but space will be little cramped. Kids can occupy rear seats and for 5 adults it is fairly comfortable. Luggage can go on roof rack and trailer along with dogs and an attendant if required. What say?......Else you dont have any other choice other than a Xylo which will not have a 4wd fun!

If you think that I could get a better deal on the GAMA 4WD elsewhere, or if you know of any used GAMA or JUDO 4WD in good condition. Do let me know, I remain interested.

Finding used 4wd trax is next to immposible!! Not worth the hassle


vinod