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Old 17th March 2010, 16:26   #61
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I don't understand why anyone would consider any of the vehicles from the Force stables for personal use. Unless of course, they want a second vehicle that's used for business/off-road purpose exclusively.

As a personal car, Trax sucks. Any other UV in the price range in miles ahead in terms of usability. And it's not even priced right. I'd rather be run over by a Toofan/Cruiser than drive one. It's that bad.

There's no need to blame Force motors though. No one bought their good stuff when it was on offer, and Force simply decided to concentrate on where they could get steady volumes, and that's the taxi market. A company's gotta survive, after all.

I'm hoping that they'd venture back into the personal car market, and that they'd hire a few good designers before doing that. The Trax desperately needs a makeover. The versions with the round headlamps had the whole G-wagen look going on, but then they ruined it with the square headlamps. I'd like to find the designer and run him over with a Toofan. And the guy who named it Toofan too.

Coming back to the discussion, I'd say that any other vehicle would do as well as the Gama. The Sumo Victa with the IDI engine and G76 box is refined but quirky, The Grande is the best of the lot, and the Boleros are reliable all rounders. Severe off-road use? Both the Bolero and the Sumo come with 4WD options, with the Sumo having the better engine. The Trax is simply not ready yet for personal use. Maybe in a few years, hopefully.
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Old 17th March 2010, 16:42   #62
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If your loan approval is 10L, then why not a safari LX. Base version has adequate ground clearance, is very comfortable, great looks(family will be happy).
Other than that there is the Scorpio, which has lesser interior space for the front passengers, but lot of room in the rear for dogs.
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Old 17th March 2010, 16:48   #63
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Force motors never moved with time. Firodias were more concerned about removing Bajaj from the name of the company ( Bajaj tempo) rather then any of their products and how they should compete.

While Anand Mahindra ( M&M) , Ratan Tata and Ravikant ( TML) talk about their vehicles and future vision all Firodias talked to business magazines was about corporate structure and control which is none of the customers concern.

What top honchos talk and preach is ultimately reflected in the work culture and products of the company down the line.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 10:58   #64
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The gear pattern is same like in the Older Land Cruisers.. And it makes sense in a way. Supposing you are climbing a steep incline 4x4 (low) and for some reason your vehicle doesnt go further, then what do you do ?? Normally you would step on the brakes which is the wrong thing to do as the brakes can fail.

But with the gear pattern like this, a quick tap on the clutch and slot the gear shift one notch up and viola you are still on engine power and there is no need for braking. You use the engine compression to bring you back down. Hope this clarifies.



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I didn't drive the Cruiser, because it's longer than anything I have ever driven. But after the test ride, I sat in the driver's seat trying to get a feel of things. While everything else was passable, I noticed the gear shifting pattern is weird to say the least.

The pattern looks somewhat similar to this:

R.....2....4
|___|___|
...|..|.....|
...1..3....5

Slotting the gear into the first or the second is a royal pain in the A. This is because you simply can't find their right positions. I had to try about three to four times before I could put it in second gear correctly, taking a couple more tries for the first. The lever has a huge amount of play. While I read somewhere the first gear isn't required unless pulling under heavy loads, shifting between second and third will be definitely required in traffic conditions (even offroad). This was a vehicle waiting to be delivered to some customer.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 11:33   #65
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Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
The gear pattern is same like in the Older Land Cruisers.. And it makes sense in a way. Supposing you are climbing a steep incline 4x4 (low) and for some reason your vehicle doesnt go further, then what do you do ?? Normally you would step on the brakes which is the wrong thing to do as the brakes can fail.

But with the gear pattern like this, a quick tap on the clutch and slot the gear shift one notch up and viola you are still on engine power and there is no need for braking. You use the engine compression to bring you back down. Hope this clarifies.

A very good insight. Never thought about this
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Old 26th March 2010, 14:44   #66
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Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
The gear pattern is same like in the Older Land Cruisers.. And it makes sense in a way. Supposing you are climbing a steep incline 4x4 (low) and for some reason your vehicle doesnt go further, then what do you do ?? Normally you would step on the brakes which is the wrong thing to do as the brakes can fail.

But with the gear pattern like this, a quick tap on the clutch and slot the gear shift one notch up and viola you are still on engine power and there is no need for braking. You use the engine compression to bring you back down. Hope this clarifies.
I have no problems with the gear positions being different to a normal car. My problem is the slotting which is extremely sloppy. As long as I could slot it into a gear I wanted, I would't mind much where the gears are. Since the gear shifting itself is very imprecise, the gear positioning makes it very difficult to locate and slot into the correct gear.

I once drove a Maruti 800 that had clocked more than 1L kilometres within just two years of purchase, which didn't start unless you switched off everything else that used the battery power and had a gear shift that oscillated like a grandfather clock's pendulum. The amount of play the gear lever had was simply awesome (in a bad sense). But the gears still slotted once you got the approximate positions right. Not so with the Cruiser.
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Old 23rd April 2015, 09:04   #67
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Hmm. Is the Judo still alive? anyhow. To have a Gama (bigger than the SWB Gurkha), Snorkels, 4x4, A/C, PS, a good Bluetooth enabled system, and decent seats. They're boxy, but I love these designs .

No one, and I mean NO ONE, would dare to cut in front of you eh? Weren't Force supposed to plunk in the Traveler engine with its much better specs into these?
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Old 23rd April 2015, 17:43   #68
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Hmm. Is the Judo still alive? anyhow. To have a Gama (bigger than the SWB Gurkha), ...
Judo = Gama AFAIK, in terms of 'wheelbase/number of doors'.

The Judo was the original name (when it came with the OM616 IDI TC engine), they re-christened it the Gama (when they started using the indigenised DI version of the OM616).
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Old 25th April 2015, 22:02   #69
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Judo = Gama AFAIK, in terms of 'wheelbase/number of doors'.

The Judo was the original name (when it came with the OM616 IDI TC engine), they re-christened it the Gama (when they started using the indigenised DI version of the OM616).
Aha! So desu ka!

But on a side note, the Khivraj guy says they only deliver Gama's. After full payment (which makes me wonder which company lets you take away a car on part payment, but anyway). TD and all on Toofan only. He had the grace to sound embarrassed about it though. All of them pretty much have a useless dash. But I'll reserve my comments yet - am due to do a TD on 27th (day after tomorrow) on a Toofan (hideous names eh?)- lets see how that goes...

Anyhow, I wouldn't mind a mildly longer WB vehicle to putter about as along as it can do what a Judo does. Some videos show the vehicle in outright ridiculous situations and the vehicle goes through.

If only they'd plonk in the Traveler motor into the Gama, Classic and Toofan.. they'd have some muscle to lug things about more comfortably.
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Old 27th April 2015, 16:08   #70
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... Some videos show the vehicle in outright ridiculous situations and the vehicle goes through...
That must be the 4X4 variant, dont know if they offer the 4X4 version of the Gama nowadays; for 4X4, the current option would be the SWB Gurkha.


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...If only they'd plonk in the Traveler motor into the Gama, Classic and Toofan...
The average Gama/Classic/Toofan you see on the roads has essentially got the same engine as the regular Traveller...the TD2650 engine (with differences in terms of BS compliance, and hence a little power/torque either way).

The key differentiator would be the Travellers which come with the CRV-16 badging, and hence have the newer engines which are more powerful. This is the TD2200 engine (the Force step-cousin of the OM611 Mercedes-Benz engine). This engine has common-rail technology and puts out about 130ps, and it is much smoother running than the TD2650.
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Old 29th April 2015, 14:40   #71
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That must be the 4X4 variant, don't know if they offer the 4X4 version of the Gama nowadays; for 4X4, the current option would be the SWB Gurkha.
Got that. And I spoke to the Force factory in Pune. They've (as per a Mr. Vinod I spoke to) released a 4x4 version of the classic last month. As is usual, Khivraj had no news of it. But, yes. A 4x4 (on order) is available now.

On a side note, I noticed about the Toofan - the vehicle is crudely built, and gears are very notchy. The chap who came along for the TD mentioned that the PDI is over, and is in for final top-ups and adjustments to pretty much everything before delivery. I think the right thing to TD would the an old Toofan, or Gama, that's been used pretty well. That's the one that'd say how well the vehicle ages.

The ground clearance is hilarious.. one could happily chug about everywhere. The ride was a bit bouncy - three folks in a 11 + D seater would do that I guess. Having noticed all that, I still am in awe of the vehicle - one that usually is stuffed to the brim, then some, with three people hanging on to the rear door, standing on the footplate to boot - that does so well on our rural roads.

Last edited by Sridutt : 29th April 2015 at 14:49. Reason: Er, forgot to mention some stuff?
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Old 29th April 2015, 14:45   #72
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Default Re: Trax Gurkha Test Drive on Horrible roads and Off-road too

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Got that. And I spoke to the Force factory in Pune. They've (as per a Mr. Vinod I spoke to) released a 4x4 version of the classic last month. As is usual, Khivraj had no news of it. But, yes. A 4x4 (on order) is available now.
All the product information coming from Force Motors is classified. That is why dealers don't have any information.

If I recall correctly, the 4x4 Gama is a plain jane version. It didn't have PS or AC. Is it still the case?
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Old 29th April 2015, 15:00   #73
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All the product information coming from Force Motors is classified. That is why dealers don't have any information.

If I recall correctly, the 4x4 Gama is a plain jane version. It didn't have PS or AC. Is it still the case?
Well, methinks its still the same - didn't ask too many questions at that time - he sounded rushed. But I'll find out. I was plunking about with the car to see how drivable it is with its turning radius. Friend wants one in the hills around Darjeeling. So...

But - why'd they end up classifying their own news? seems counter-productive..

I agree they probably don't sell many 4x4 vehicles. But most estate owners - I guess - would be interested in a hard top 4x4 that they could load up and yet drive easily with their loads safe from the elements. So spreading the news would be more helpful eh?
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Old 6th May 2015, 12:39   #74
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Hi, Sridutt, I can understand your interest in the Force Gama/Judo. I was at one point in time (~2008) drooling over the (Trax Judo) Gama4X4. But then, after making a few enquiries at the dealer, and reading various reviews, the aura wore off, and they dont turn me on as much nowadays.

The original Judo 4X4 with imported German components, including engine, was definitely drool-worthy; not the current breed of Force 4X4 vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridutt View Post
... But, yes. A 4x4 (on order) is available now.
...
There is always the 4X4 version available on order! And there will always be a sales person at the Force factory or head-office who will say that the 4x4 version is available! But, please read the reviews in TBHP to understand more about the company and its culture (from a personal vehicle perspective, as opposed to commercial vehicles).


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All the product information coming from Force Motors is classified.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridutt View Post
...But - why'd they end up classifying their own news? seems counter-productive..
You haven't understood the company well-enough yet, and you missed the sarcasm in Samurai's post!

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 6th May 2015 at 12:41.
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Old 11th May 2015, 10:32   #75
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You haven't understood the company well-enough yet, and you missed the sarcasm in Samurai's post!
Ah, my bad. That was a slow-witted day.

But yes, I did read up a lil more, and you're right.. that LWB 4x4? I guess finding a yeti might have better odds.

Pointless gawking at it as a practical vehicle I guess. What a pity. The thing has some serious potential as a travel car.
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