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Old 8th March 2009, 21:12   #76
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What causes this fishtailing during braking in few safaris? I think the new GX and VX version comes with ABS and EBD.Does this feature EBD rectifies this fishtailing problem? or what is the use of this feature 'EBD'?
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Old 8th March 2009, 23:03   #77
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nopes, the VX comes with ABS & EBD & i have read reports of even the VX variant fishtailing.

EBD stands for electronic brake force distribution. it varies the amount of braking force applied to each wheels according to grip, speed & load on each wheel.
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Old 8th March 2009, 23:27   #78
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What causes this fishtailing during braking in few safaris? I think the new GX and VX version comes with ABS and EBD.Does this feature EBD rectifies this fishtailing problem? or what is the use of this feature 'EBD'?
Few Safaris ? The only one on T-BHP which used to fishtail was tsk1979s IMHO. The reason was unequal setting of some valve (LSP valve I think but do now remember the valve name correctly)
so the break pressure was unequal please read his thread for details it is titled 'disaster by design'.

I think if break lines on the two sides receive different pressure any car will fishtail ABS with EBD will not be of any help ( however TSKs problem was on a Ex with out ABS and EBD) .

Once I did panic breaking from 120 Kms/ hr when a moron on bike suddenly decided to come on rightmost lane at 40 -50 Km/hr and mine stopped in straight line touch wood the tension could not be described in words though. And after reading his thread did some testing on empty road So I think this is not a generic issue.

Last edited by amitk26 : 8th March 2009 at 23:29.
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Old 9th March 2009, 01:30   #79
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What causes this fishtailing during braking in few safaris? I think the new GX and VX version comes with ABS and EBD.Does this feature EBD rectifies this fishtailing problem? or what is the use of this feature 'EBD'?
Its a manufacturing defect in some vehicles. For example my safari had this. It can be due to many reasons, and the most common reason is incorrect adjustment of LPSV, or incorrect brake balance. Apart from the safari, the only other vehicle where I have experienced this was the esteem, again it got rectified by adjusting the brakes.
Many people have never driven a fishtailing safari, just read my thread. But then they may also believe that all scorpios catch fire, since they saw a thread on that here, that all innovas have black smoke problem, and all santros suffer from crankshaft failure at 24000kms.

That said, in any high GC MUV/SUV, be it Jeep Liberty, Scorpio or Safari. I will be very very scared of hitting brakes hard at high speeds.
With ABS and EBD things go better. EBD is electronic Brakefore distribution, which means that a computer decides how much braking to give to each axle, so the car goes exactly where the user is intending it to go, and ABS is Anti Lock braking, which does not allow wheels to lock, hence even under hard braking you retain steering control.

Vehicles without ABS have a tricky issue. In a ladder on frame chasis, when hard braking is done, there is quite a bit of nose dive, inspite of anti-roll/anti-sway bars etc.,
This causes front to dive, and most of the weight or force comes onto front wheels. Rear wheels are kind of "in the air". Or very less downward force on them
This means that they lock up, kind of like pulling the hand brake.
So even slight misbalance will make the vehicle go left or right. So you have the LPSV(Load Pressure sensive valve) which tries to prevent the rear wheels from locking up.

After brake balance and LPSV adjustment, I had the opportunity to brake hard at 110kmph when a wagon R decided to change lanes suddenly, and she skidded straight, no drama at all.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 9th March 2009 at 01:31.
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Old 9th March 2009, 07:26   #80
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...This causes front to dive, and most of the weight or force comes onto front wheels. Rear wheels are kind of "in the air". Or very less downward force on them
This means that they lock up, kind of like pulling the hand brake.
So even slight misbalance will make the vehicle go left or right...
This was exactly what used to happen to the first gen Sumo, which is the reason you will find that most of them usually, if in a high speed accident, end up with a head-on collisions.
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Old 9th March 2009, 10:30   #81
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This was exactly what used to happen to the first gen Sumo, which is the reason you will find that most of them usually, if in a high speed accident, end up with a head-on collisions.
Diving to front happens in all high CG vehicles laws of physics can not be defied but fishtailing happens only if the brake pressure is unequal.
Believe me or not I saw at least 2 Innova taxis fishtailing when I was behind them in recent days not at very high speed but around 80 Kmph when hey had to break suddenly in Stop / go traffic of bangalore.
I think probably mechanics playing with brakes during service or wear and tear may be the cause. Probably after reading on T-BHP I became aware and started noticing this and earlier this thing went unnoticed.

Last edited by amitk26 : 9th March 2009 at 10:31.
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Old 13th March 2009, 16:27   #82
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even i have got the same confusion till today morning i had made up my mind for Safari lx and i was pretty happy because at my budget of 8.5lk on road safari was good. But then my friend gave me a call and asked me check out the might muscular All New Scorpio and asked me to visit the site. by looking at the site i was zapped Scorpio facelifted, got Mhawk engine in all variants and the Sle variant with all things loaded got ABS also and that too at 8.2lk. i am really impressed with the value for money it offers.
now the problem is my heart says safari and the head says scorpio

@abhi182,
i guess even you should take a look at new Scorpio Sle its in your budget got ABS and all regular goddies.

Last edited by Rehaan : 14th March 2009 at 02:50. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the EDIT button to add to an existing post within 20 minutes instead of posting another consecutive post.
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Old 13th March 2009, 17:13   #83
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even i have got the same confusion till today morning i had made up my mind for Safari lx and i was pretty happy because at my budget of 8.5lk on road safari was good. But then my friend gave me a call and asked me check out the might muscular All New Scorpio and asked me to visit the site. by looking at the site i was zapped Scorpio facelifted, got Mhawk engine in all variants and the Sle variant with all things loaded got ABS also and that too at 8.2lk. i am really impressed with the value for money it offers.
now the problem is my heart says safari and the head says scorpio
"now the problem is my heart says safari and the head says scorpio"
Welcome to the group Nishant. BTW, I too, am located in Gurgaon.
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Old 13th March 2009, 17:21   #84
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Originally Posted by nishant kar View Post
even i have got the same confusion till today morning i had made up my mind for Safari lx and i was pretty happy because at my budget of 8.5lk on road safari was good. But then my friend gave me a call and asked me check out the might muscular All New Scorpio and asked me to visit the site. by looking at the site i was zapped Scorpio facelifted, got Mhawk engine in all variants and the Sle variant with all things loaded got ABS also and that too at 8.2lk. i am really impressed with the value for money it offers.
now the problem is my heart says safari and the head says scorpio
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Originally Posted by nishant kar View Post
i guess even you should take a look at new Scorpio Sle its in your budget got ABS and all regular goddies.
Nishanth,

Did you check this link, i feel you need to go with your heart

Tata Safari - Safari DICOR

Good thing is the ever so beautiful RED color is back.


Tata Safari - Safari DICOR

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 13th March 2009 at 17:22.
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Old 13th March 2009, 17:23   #85
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On second thoughts with ur budget of 10 lk and if u can go over by say 30k u can get a Scorpio vlx Automatic (6 speed automatic) its convenient for city traffic. scorpio vlx AT is bharat stage 4 with all luxury technology like, cruise control, micro hybrid, tyre tronics, electric orvm, reverse parking sensors or intellipark, automatic wipers and headlights, 2 din audio with usb and sd, digital immobilizer, steering mounted controls, smart window, alloy wheels, tiltable steering the list goes on, if u dont want automatic the same package is also available with vlx at 9.2 lk ex chennai. i know ur against scorp but just td and a long one, make sure u have a Mhawk it will impress u. i have personally driven scorpio on long trips 3000+ km and there aint any prob.
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Old 13th March 2009, 22:27   #86
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i have been a safari fan all my life i completely adore it but then to get a similar package in safari ie gx version ill have to shell out 10.5lk which is way over my budget. i have just graduated from a premier B school i cant afford to shell out more than 8.5lk and even if i go with safari lx ill have to spend atleast spend 80k to get it fit (ie ICE, Roof mounted blower, body coloured bumper, rear defogger etc) and still no ABS which i really want coz i drive very long distances 3000+ km roadtrip.

i also feel scorpio has less niggles and a more quiet and refined engine, thanks to Bosch common rail. even the A.S.S in scorpio is cheaper. also i have heard horrible engine problems in safari from my frens and also read quiet a few in Team BHP. cant take chances. i hope pavan now u would understand why i am inclined towards scorpio.

please tell me friends if i am wrong
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Old 13th March 2009, 22:53   #87
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Originally Posted by nishant kar View Post
On second thoughts with ur budget of 10 lk and if u can go over by say 30k u can get a Scorpio vlx Automatic (6 speed automatic) its convenient for city traffic. scorpio vlx AT is bharat stage 4 with all luxury technology like, cruise control, micro hybrid, tyre tronics, electric orvm, reverse parking sensors or intellipark, automatic wipers and headlights, 2 din audio with usb and sd, digital immobilizer, steering mounted controls, smart window, alloy wheels, tiltable steering the list goes on, if u dont want automatic the same package is also available with vlx at 9.2 lk ex chennai. i know ur against scorp but just td and a long one, make sure u have a Mhawk it will impress u. i have personally driven scorpio on long trips 3000+ km and there aint any prob.
Do you need all those gadgets

Cruise control - Not proven as a feature yet
Micro Hybrid - what is with those things
Reverse parking - Almost all cars can be fitted for Rs.2000/-
etc., etc.,

What anyone needs is a comfortable 5 seater with loads of luggage area , great driver and passenger comfort is utmost requirement. With a bouncing drive i dont feel the scorpio can give anyone a comfortable drive than a Safari.

Though on the second thoughts the Scorpio runs best in normal city traffic

MODS: the thread starter has vanished of-late.
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Old 13th March 2009, 22:56   #88
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"now the problem is my heart says safari and the head says scorpio"
Welcome to the group Nishant. BTW, I too, am located in Gurgaon.
Today I was chatting with a second hand car broker who said he had a white 2008 Safari 2.2 L Dicor whose owner was willing to sell it for Rs 6L.Did not see the SUV but is that how this truck depreciates in the second hand market?
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Old 13th March 2009, 23:02   #89
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TD'd a Safari VX 4WD today. Quoted 12.70L OTR Delhi. Only was the steering - at max height adjustment, with lowest seat height, my sight of the meters is still cut off partially. And the AC didn't seem to chill as much as it should - I presume it's a fault with the TD car. Loved the drive otherwise.
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Old 14th March 2009, 00:07   #90
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Do you need all those gadgets

Cruise control - Not proven as a feature yet
Micro Hybrid - what is with those things
Reverse parking - Almost all cars can be fitted for Rs.2000/-
etc., etc.,

What anyone needs is a comfortable 5 seater with loads of luggage area , great driver and passenger comfort is utmost requirement. With a bouncing drive i dont feel the scorpio can give anyone a comfortable drive than a Safari.

Though on the second thoughts the Scorpio runs best in normal city traffic

MODS: the thread starter has vanished of-late.
whats with the features buddy? scorpio offers some features which have never been heard of in this segment. now lets not debate which is important & which is not, every individual has different needs. but i feel TPMS & auto wipers are way better than tiny DVD screens.
anyways, the quote that scorpio runs best only in city traffic is untrue. i have driven/travelled in the scorpio on highways for lakhs of kms & never faced a problem till now. i dont see a reason why others should feel so.
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