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Old 7th August 2009, 22:05   #1
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Default Gypsy King - Carb or MPFi?

After disposing off my mg410w, I've been looking for a gypsy king and I've finally managed to locate 2 gypsies, one is a 1.3 carb and the other is a 1.3 mpfi version.

Here is the list of mods I plan to carry out on either of these 2 vehicles (all figures are approximate)-

1. Complete tin work and new paint - 30,000 Rs
2. Sparco/Recaro imitation seats -16-18,000 Rs
3. AC - 25,000 Rs.
4. Electric fan conversion - 10,000 Rs.
5. Composite fibre leaf springs - 15,000 Rs.
6. Alloys - approx. 20,000 Rs.
7. New tires (maxxis trapador or geolander AT) - 20,000 Rs.
8. Bull bar and other accessories - 10,000 Rs.
9. Power windows - 5,000 Rs.
10. Interiors - 15,000 Rs.
11. New battery - 5,000 Rs
12. Electrical/Mechanical work 15-20,000 Rs.

After carrying out all the work mentioned above the carb gypsy is costing me 3.5 L while the mpfi version will cost me 4.75 L.

Now here is the dilemma. Should I spend that extra moolah (1.25 L) and go in for the mpfi version or should I save that money and use it to go in for a baleno engine swap later down the line? In case you guys suggest a baleno engine swap, here is my next set of questions-

1. How easy or difficult is it to plonk a baleno engine/ecu/gearbox into a carb gypsy king? Is it a direct fit or does it involve a lot of modifications to the chassis and engine mounts?

2. Is it possible to carry out a reliable baleno engine swap from a professional for approx. 1L Rs.?

3. I intend to use the gypsy mostly for touring the himalayas and for annual trips to leh/laddakh and a bit of off-roading. Will the baleno engine swap affect reliability? Is it better to stick to the 1.3L engine if reliablity is critical?

4.Is it easy to find good baleno engines (with ecu and transmission)?

5. Is there any other petrol engine from any other manufacturer (easily available in India) that can be plonked into a gypsy with minimal mods (while retaining 4WD)

6. Lastly, what is the difference in the real world performance of a carb gypsy king as compared to the mpfi version? I don't intend to go rallying (not yet) nor am I a hardcore offroader. I know that there is a lot of difference in the power output (bhp) but is there also a drastic difference between the torque figures and bottom/mid range performance? I don't think I'll ever cross 100 kmph in a gypsy so do I really need the extra bhps?

I haven't yet tested the 2 gypsies, I'm waiting for my mechanic to come back from his trip to his hometown and will then take him along to test these 2 vehicles extensively but assuming that both the vehicles are in similar condition (more or less), what do you guys suggest?

Last edited by Astleviz : 7th August 2009 at 22:07.
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Old 8th August 2009, 17:48   #2
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One more thing, I was talking to an army captain a few days ago and he told me that they fit gas dampers to the gypsies that are used by the officers to improve the ride quality. Is that true? If I go in for gas dampers and composite fiber leaf springs, will that make a reasonable difference in the ride quality?
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Old 8th August 2009, 18:27   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
...

Here is the list of mods I plan to carry out on either of these 2 vehicles (all figures are approximate)-
...
4. Electric fan conversion - 10,000 Rs.
Should cost you < 1K Just get a used WagonR fan and get it installed. I got one for 650 odd bucks.

Quote:
5. Composite fibre leaf springs - 15,000 Rs.
Should cost you ~12K (only for rear) and will improve your ride quality like nothing else. Just too good. Would for sure suggest them

Quote:
Now here is the dilemma. Should I spend that extra moolah (1.25 L) and go in for the mpfi version or should I save that money and use it to go in for a baleno engine swap later down the line?
Though not an easy choice but I personally would anyday prefer a MPFI gypsy over a carb one.

Quote:
In case you guys suggest a baleno engine swap, here is my next set of questions-
I have no idea about this but a question I have is how reliable would the baleno engine you find will be? How will you be sure that the engine is in top shape and not an abused/already done 80-100K one?

Quote:
3. I intend to use the gypsy mostly for touring the himalayas and for annual trips to leh/laddakh and a bit of off-roading. Will the baleno engine swap affect reliability? Is it better to stick to the 1.3L engine if reliablity is critical?
Stock is stock. ANY mod you do will have an impact on reliability --e specially the ones that concern the engine etc.
Also, know from 2 friends who just went to Leh in 1 carb & 1 mpfi Gypsy that the mpfi one had NO issues whereas the carb one had issues and had to be tuned every 100 odd kms or so.

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Lastly, what is the difference in the real world performance of a carb gypsy king as compared to the mpfi version?
Night & day... (stock to stock)
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Old 8th August 2009, 21:07   #4
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Since I intend to use the gypsy primarily to tour the himalayas, I guess a carb king is out of question since I don't want the hassle of tuning the carb every 100 km.

Now that leaves me with 2 choices, to get an mpfi gypsy or to get the carb one and plonk a baleno engine. It would be great if someone who either owns a gypsy with a baleno engine or has done such a swap for someone else can enlighten me on this front. The 3 main issues I can see with this are-

1. Are baleno engines in good condition easy to find? What if I can source a baleno engine that has done 80,000 - 100,000 km for approx. 30-40,000 bucks and then go in for a complete overhaul?

2. Will this swap be as reliable as a stock mpfi gypsy king?

3. Is it possible to do this swap (baleno engine + ecu + wiring + misc. parts + labour) from a professional for 1.2 L Rs?
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Old 8th August 2009, 21:20   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
Since I intend to use the gypsy primarily to tour the himalayas, I guess a carb king is out of question since I don't want the hassle of tuning the carb every 100 km.

Now that leaves me with 2 choices, to get an mpfi gypsy or to get the carb one and plonk a baleno engine. It would be great if someone who either owns a gypsy with a baleno engine or has done such a swap for someone else can enlighten me on this front. The 3 main issues I can see with this are-

1. Are baleno engines in good condition easy to find? What if I can source a baleno engine that has done 80,000 - 100,000 km for approx. 30-40,000 bucks and then go in for a complete overhaul?

2. Will this swap be as reliable as a stock mpfi gypsy king?

3. Is it possible to do this swap (baleno engine + ecu + wiring + misc. parts + labour) from a professional for 1.2 L Rs?
1. dont do the swap unless you get it done by a very professional workshop!

2. Stock is Stock, its better to fine tune and modify the stock engine of the King rather than depend upon the baleno engine!

3. i havent come across any one having a baleno engine in his gypsy and uses it for long hauls from Goa to Leh and back!

i think you should stick to MPFI stock engine of King and go for FFE, Manifold change and K&N to get that extra kick you are looking for from a bigger engine of Baleno!

to go for a long haul trips, you have to have an engine which is relaible and not prone to breakdowns. so my advice is

STICK to the stock engine of MG413 MPFI. its anyday better than a carb engine!
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Old 8th August 2009, 21:45   #6
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Parm/Khan

Thanks for your input. I think I'll drop the baleno engine swap idea and stick with the 1.3 mpfi version. The only issue is that good mpfi gypsies are hard to come by, the mpfi gypsy I have located is in my hometown in Rajasthan and has been used extensively in a lime quarry there. I'll know the condition of that gypsy in about a week's time when my mechanic will be able to check it out.

BTW, Parm, I'll keep the gypsy in Rajasthan, use my W124/ikon to drive down to Rajasthan from Goa and then proceed to Leh in the gypsy. There is no way I'm going to drive down from Goa to Leh and back every year in a Gypsy

On a completely different note, what if I can get my hands on a good condition used CRV? I know it's not an offroader by any stretch of imagination but is it competent enough to be used to tour the Leh/laddakh region? My first choice is obviously a gypsy but incase I can't find a good mpfi version at a reasonable price, what other options do I have? I am a petrol head and would like to avoid diesels if possible. Yes I know, modern diesel cars are refined and powerful, I have driven a swift, accent crdi, fiesta and the laura and though the torque is addictive, I still prefer the refinement and the high revving nature of the petrols so unless I can get a tuscon or an endeavour for a ridiculously low price, I would like to stick to petrols.
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Old 8th August 2009, 23:40   #7
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BTW, if I can't find a good mpfi gypsy, is it possible to convert a carb gypsy king into an mpfi one? I Do I just need the ecu,wiring and the fuel injectors or do I need the mpfi engine as well. The reason I asked is that I have seen a few esteem mpfi engines (along with the ecu and wiring) go for approx. 30,000 bucks.
Is that too much of a hassle or can this be done relaibly?
What are the differences between a carb gypsy king and an mpfi gypsy king other than the fuel injection system, ecu and wiring?
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Old 9th August 2009, 23:37   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
BTW, if I can't find a good mpfi gypsy, is it possible to convert a carb gypsy king into an mpfi one? I Do I just need the ecu,wiring and the fuel injectors or do I need the mpfi engine as well. The reason I asked is that I have seen a few esteem mpfi engines (along with the ecu and wiring) go for approx. 30,000 bucks.
Is that too much of a hassle or can this be done relaibly?
What are the differences between a carb gypsy king and an mpfi gypsy king other than the fuel injection system, ecu and wiring?
you can convert a carb gypsy to mpfi - however you need to buy the 16V head from the mpfi to do it (in case you want a stock setup), or you can convert the 8V to mpfi however you need to get creative with fabricating stuff and also use a standalone aftermarket ECU !

if you have an mpfi esteem engine with the ecu and the harness its going to be easy, not much of an hassle!

btw, offtopic - where do you get those engines ? Goa ? Where?!
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Old 10th August 2009, 14:35   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
BTW, if I can't find a good mpfi gypsy, is it possible to convert a carb gypsy king into an mpfi one? I Do I just need the ecu,wiring and the fuel injectors or do I need the mpfi engine as well. The reason I asked is that I have seen a few esteem mpfi engines (along with the ecu and wiring) go for approx. 30,000 bucks.
Is that too much of a hassle or can this be done relaibly?
What are the differences between a carb gypsy king and an mpfi gypsy king other than the fuel injection system, ecu and wiring?
Hi
I would not suggest that you change a carb vehicle to MPFI. If you have an option of buying an MPFI then do so.
You need a full MPFI engine not just some parts. once you buy an engine, you WILL HAVE to rebuild it - so that you have a "new" engine and this is a little expensive.
One of the main issues with trying to upgrade from carb to MPFI is an issue with reliability. One of my friends had done this - His car spends more time at the workshop than his garage ( as a matter of fact I think his mechanic uses it more than h does)

Hope this helps
Cheers
GB
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Old 10th August 2009, 15:26   #10
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if you have an mpfi esteem engine with the ecu and the harness its going to be easy, not much of an hassle!
The distributor placement on the mpfi esteem engine is different. It kind of sticks up beyond the bonnet line.
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Old 10th August 2009, 18:21   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
BTW, if I can't find a good mpfi gypsy, is it possible to convert a carb gypsy king into an mpfi one? I Do I just need the ecu,wiring and the fuel injectors or do I need the mpfi engine as well. The reason I asked is that I have seen a few esteem mpfi engines (along with the ecu and wiring) go for approx. 30,000 bucks.
Is that too much of a hassle or can this be done relaibly?
What are the differences between a carb gypsy king and an mpfi gypsy king other than the fuel injection system, ecu and wiring?
if you dont find a good mpfi engine gypsy, then get whatever condition you are able to lay you hands on it and then overhaul the engine and get the injectors replaced with new ones.

forget about converting a carb into mpfi, cause its one thing you dont want to do in your life as you will hardly get see you gypsy after that, maybe go on weekends to your neighbourhood garage to see it!
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Old 11th August 2009, 00:55   #12
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One of the main issues with trying to upgrade from carb to MPFI is an issue with reliability. One of my friends had done this - His car spends more time at the workshop than his garage ( as a matter of fact I think his mechanic uses it more than h does)
I've known of another similar nightmare too - but it got sorted over a period of a year or so! I'm contemplating a carb-mpfi conversion myself on an esteem however the thought of potential reliability issues is holding me back as this is my daily and only drive!

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Originally Posted by rmonie View Post
The distributor placement on the mpfi esteem engine is different. It kind of sticks up beyond the bonnet line.
oops.. my bad - didn't know that - was thinking that since the engine is the same G13B(B?) it would be the same w/o any changes in the gypsy!

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What are the differences between a carb gypsy king and an mpfi gypsy king other than the fuel injection system, ecu and wiring?
the head in the mpfi is 16v (the carb is 8v) . the fuel pump (and possibly the fuel tank) is different along with the fuel lines.

Last edited by techn0l0gist : 11th August 2009 at 00:58.
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Old 11th August 2009, 02:21   #13
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btw, offtopic - where do you get those engines ? Goa ? Where?!
These were available in Jodhpur, Rajasthan. Quite a few have converted their gypsies to diesel and their petrol engines are sometimes just lying around.
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Old 11th August 2009, 02:25   #14
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Thank you all for helping me evaluate all options, now that I have a much better idea about the downside of engine swaps, I think I will stick to stock 1.3 mpfi king.
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Old 12th August 2009, 00:48   #15
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Thank you all for helping me evaluate all options, now that I have a much better idea about the downside of engine swaps, I think I will stick to stock 1.3 mpfi king.
glad to hear that answer from you sooner than i expected!

mature and sensible decision!
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